quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by IanD:
michael458,

What model(s) of Nikon do you recommend for the heavy kickers? Also, what mounts are you using?

Thanks

Yes...I would like to hear as well.

Each and everyone of us knows how this statement goes.... "You Get What You Pay For".... Right?
I have always found this to be pretty much true, with a few exceptions....

For all my big bore rifles, all the B&M rifles, right on to the 500 MDM which can churn over a 100 ft lbs of recoil, and both 50 B&M and 500 MDM have an EXTREMELY hi recoil impulse, which is the scope busting #, FAR FAR higher than 458 Lott, I have converted 100% to the Nikon Monarch African 1x4.. 1 Inch version that costs $279.00............. This is the biggest exception I know of in shooting to the Get what you pay for Rule... This little Nikon, you get a hell of a lot more than what you pay for. Especially if I have not broke one yet, and I have had a couple now for 2 yrs + and still going. When I changed, I changed all the scopes out to Nikons, and I have not been the least bit disappointed in any of them so far.... For my eyes, I can actually see better with them than any of the leupolds I had. I am not a glass expert, but just my eyes I suppose. Mechanically sound, you move it and it goes in the right direction and 9 times of 10 it moves exactly with the # of clicks, so can't ask for more than that.

Nikon 1X4 Monarch now.. Used to call it the African with a buffalo on the side turret cap. Now the new model is just called a Monarch.. I THINK.... I don't think I have one of the newest models that just came out, but the price stayed the same, which is odd in todays market....

Mounts and Rings.... Leupold QRW Rings and Bases, 100%. Have been using them exclusively since 1998. Lots of changes in the rings since 1998, and now better than ever. Makes life a bit easier on me if I have several rifles set up exactly the same, and can take scopes from one rifle to the next to do test work on. Yes, some rifles are set up permanently with the same system, but most are not. In addition, going on a hunt in the bush I always carry a spare scope, this also makes it an easy change if something happens. While I have had very few issues with that over the years, I do know of two friends that had an accident and actually busted the scope off the rifle. Both were set up with QRWs and extra scope, they were back in business short order, very little hunting time lost due to accidents.

Michael

I have a Leupold Vari-X III, 1.5-5 heavy duplex on my Steyr in 458 Win Mag. It's been on there for almost 14 years, and although it's mounted with quick-release rings, I can't recall ever taking it off.

The rifle with scope attached has had between 200-300 rounds of handloads through it, 500 gr Woodleigh Weldcores and solids with a MV of just under 2100 fps. The scope has never presented a problem, nor has the POI ever changed, even after a round-trip to Zimbabwe some years ago.

That said, a fixed 2.5 would probably be just as good, but with 66 year-old eyes, I kinda like the 5X option.

I took Michaels advise and use a Nikon scope and Leupold mounts on my 50B&M . No other scope or mounts would deal with the recoil. I actually sheared the screws on Talley Mounts and trashed a Leupold and Weaver scope. I use the Monarch African and a Nikon shotgun turkey scope with a circle reticle that is very quick acquiring the target. Both scopes have over 4" of eye relief and a very large field of view . For $276.00 you can't go wrong and Nikon offers a lifetime warranty
Chris

Great to know. I will be picking up a Nikon 1-4 for my 458 soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Cardinal:
If your budget allows, Swarovski Z6i 1-6x EE.
Loong eye relief for heavy magnums.

+1 Works great on my 505 Gibbs.
Great CD-reticle, fantastic eye-relief, but expensive!

sorry to raise it from the end of optics but any updates on the scopes that stands the recoil.

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by Nitro Express:
I have a Leupold Vari-X III, 1.5-5 heavy duplex on my Steyr in 458 Win Mag. It's been on there for almost 14 years, and although it's mounted with quick-release rings, I can't recall ever taking it off.

The rifle with scope attached has had between 200-300 rounds of handloads through it, 500 gr Woodleigh Weldcores and solids with a MV of just under 2100 fps. The scope has never presented a problem, nor has the POI ever changed, even after a round-trip to Zimbabwe some years ago.

That said, a fixed 2.5 would probably be just as good, but with 66 year-old eyes, I kinda like the 5X option.

I have the same scope & mounts on my 458. The scope spent 15 years on my 425 Express and hundreds of rounds so I have faith in it.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
sorry to raise it from the end of optics but any updates on the scopes that stands the recoil.

Phil

You've read Michael458's post in this thread? They are up to date. The Nikons withstand recoil like no other in the medium price range and with excellent glass quality.

9.3x62 moose,

I'm a big fan of the 458 WM and have always thought it was much more versatile than most folks thought. With the heavy bullets it's great medicine for the big nasties but it also can reach out with nearly the same trajectory as the 375 to 300 yards with the 350 gr bullets that are excellent for non dangerous game. I used the 350 X with excellent results when I lived in Alaska on moose and caribou. Therefore IMO a variable power scope of perhaps 1.75 x 6 might be perfect. You have a better FOV than the small fix powers and the extra magnification and light gathering when you need it.

Mark

Ive been using a VX-2 1-4 on mine with no issues so far. If i ever swap it out i will go with the Leupold fixed 2.5 and a heavy duplex.

Leupold often mentioned. I like them and have several. On a 458 you don't need a lot of magnification but you do need a lot of eye relief. I like the looks of this older Weaver K3 on my #1. There are newer, better and more expensive scopes available, but this works for me and was cheap.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:

quote:

Originally posted by Nitro Express:
I have a Leupold Vari-X III, 1.5-5 heavy duplex on my Steyr in 458 Win Mag. It's been on there for almost 14 years, and although it's mounted with quick-release rings, I can't recall ever taking it off.

The rifle with scope attached has had between 200-300 rounds of handloads through it, 500 gr Woodleigh Weldcores and solids with a MV of just under 2100 fps. The scope has never presented a problem, nor has the POI ever changed, even after a round-trip to Zimbabwe some years ago.

That said, a fixed 2.5 would probably be just as good, but with 66 year-old eyes, I kinda like the 5X option.

I have the same scope & mounts on my 458. The scope spent 15 years on my 425 Express and hundreds of rounds so I have faith in it.

I suppose I am the only one that could bust Leupolds on such a regular basis, that I always had 3-4 at Leupold for repairs, and 3-4 on the bench ready to send out for repairs.... In one 18 month period I sent 13 Leupolds back for repairs from being on big bore rifles. It was common, and I just figured it was the price I paid for shooting so much big bore........ I watched a brand new out of the box 1.5X5 VX 3 EXPLODE on the 3rd round with a 50 B&M..... 3 rounds!

I made the switch to Nikon after purchasing 1X4 African (Now Just Plain Monarch), a nice little Weaer, Trijicon, and a couple of others that made my requirements. The Nikon beat all of the others in meeting what I required. This has been well over 2 years ago now, maybe 3 years.... I now have an entire stable of Nikons only on everything, probably a dozen or more of the 1X4s, and have not had one issue, ZERO, never busted one, never exploded one, and now I can be far more productive without having to change scopes every week due to failures........ Not One Nikon has given the least issue at all, and for me that is just unheard of, incredible.......... Unless something changes, I don't need to look any further........

Michael

I like the QRWs but I'd drill and tap the rifle to allow mounting with a size larger screws. Shouldn't cost more than $50 but it makes a difference.

Mike

I use QRWs exclusively..... Makes life easy with me.....
M

Yep They've never failed me.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
Yep They've never failed me.

Nor myself............

I have used Leupolds for about 60 years, I own a dozen or two at any given time..I've sent maybe three back for repair..and I shoot as many big bores as anyone. I know they have a guarentee thats second to none. I'll stick with them. I won't demean another brand, but I have tried them all and still like Leupold best of all...

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
sorry to raise it from the end of optics but any updates on the scopes that stands the recoil.

Phil

You've read Michael458's post in this thread? They are up to date. The Nikons withstand recoil like no other in the medium price range and with excellent glass quality.

yes but after one year i wanted the confirmation. i had discussion with him so thank you to help me too on my understanding on the nikon scope. i ll head for one with qrw leupold rings.

thanks again.

My 450 RUM (aka 460 G&A) has a Leupold VX-II 1-4X variable. It's about perfect...

Rich

I have a Nikon Monarch 1x4 with Leupold QRW rings/bases on my 50 B&M. This is my first Nikon on a big bore, having used Leupold 1.5x5's for some time. The Nikon seems to be clearer and brighter with a better field of view than the Leupold. Very pleased with the Nikon and will put another on my 500 B&M when it is done.

Michael brings up an interesting point about the recoil impulse of the 50 caliber B&M rounds.
Both my 416 B&M and my 50 B&M have the NEC banded front sight base with the windowed front sight hood. The 416 front sight hood has stayed put over lots of rounds. The front sight hood on the 50 B&M launches into orbit after about 5 rounds if I don't keep an eye on it during a range session. JB weld may be my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
In one 18 month period I sent 13 Leupold scopes back for repair. Most of these were 1.5X5 Vari and VX 3s, 1x4 VX 2s, I only owned one 2.5 Compact that has been declared indestructable, at least until the cross hairs on mine fell apart, not to mention the fact that it has a terrible field of view compared to the other models. At one time I ALWAYS had 2-4 scopes at Leupold, and 2-4 on the bench to be sent. I sold 30+ Leupolds at 1/2 price, replaced all of them with Nikon 1X4s, and other Nikon Models. I have run Nikons now over two years since the first one, it is still going strong, and I have yet to have a busted Nikon. Use what you wish based on ego or price, I can't afford so much aggravation and down time from test work or field work, so I use what works.........

Michael

The rifles you're testing. Are these rifles set in a vice or something?

Like how can you bust Leupold scopes?

quote:

The rifles you're testing. Are these rifles set in a vice or something?

Like how can you bust Leupold scopes?

The B&M series consists now of 10+ cartridges from .416 to .500 caliber, of that, 5 are .500 caliber. Rifles are light and short, from 50 B&M Super Short at 6.25 lbs and 36 inches overall with 16 inch barrel shooting 300s to 400s from 2400-2100 fps. 50 B&M slightly larger rifle 6.5-8 lbs depending on stock, 18 inch barrel shooting 450s at 2300-500s at 2130 having a very fast recoil impulse. 500 MDM is a big hammer shooting 500s at 2400 fps or 450s at 2600 fps in an 8.5 lb rifle, again a quick recoil impulse. Leupold scopes cannot hold up against this recoil impulse according to Leupold, at least, not the 1 inch 1.5X5 or 1x4....

From 2006 to say around 2009 or so I was doing a lot of shooting of these rifles doing different sorts of work, pressure data, load data, bullet tests and so forth. It was normal to be shooting 200-300 rounds a week of big bore consistently to get the data and results I wanted. It was common to have anything from 3-4 Leupolds at the factory for repairs and 2-4 on the bench to send when those returned. This was a constant. Both Vari X and VX, but the then newer VX seemed much LESS durable than the older Vari X. I also busted many of the other leupolds as well, 2.5 fixed, several 2.5X8s and so forth. Many of these blew focus only. Above 3x you could not focus one to save your life no matter how much you twisted. Below 3X they were clear. All rattled like a baby rattle from that point, so something turned loose in them. None would adjust POI after this if you needed, but none of them LOST POI either, they stayed on point, you just could not move it afterwards. I remember one scope that blew on a light 50 B&M and I was dead in the middle of some test work with it. I kept it on the rifle for several months, and continued the work, I just could not use anything above 3X. Later after finishing the project, I took it off, sent it in for repairs.

During this time JD and I were talking about it, JD had some contacts at Leupold so he put me in touch with one of the higher ups at Leupold. Leupold is a great company, and does everything to back up their product. During several conversations with this fellow he actually offered to replace all my 1.5X5 Vari and VX with that 30mm tube I believe it is a 1.75X6... This is a $1000 scope at the time. I refused based on the fact this scope is bigger, heavier, and more bulky than I wanted on any of my rifles, remember, I was trying to go with less, not more. A 30mm tube for me is just too big for these rifles, looks out of place to me. But that was one hell of a fine offer. Finally he talked me into at least giving one a try to see if I could bust it, I agreed, so he sent one. I put it on a 50 B&M, and as I thought it was big, fat, bulky and just looked oversized. I only shot that rifle around 250 rounds or so over the next month. The scope performed great, no issues, did not bust and held up just dandy. But I never liked it, so packed it up one day, sent a nice letter, thank you so much, but no thanks.......

In addition, I had a couple of 1X4 VX2 scopes. To me, this was nothing more than the older 1.5X5 Vari X. I had not kept up with everything I had done with these, but just had a feeling they might hold up better than the new VX 3...... At the time, I had 4 1.5X5 VX 3s at Leupold, I told my guy there that I would be happy if they wanted to replace those 4 VX3s with the 1X4 VX2s, and put the thicker cross hairs in them. They did this for me, and sent 4 new VX2s with new cross hairs. I used 2 of these on a trip to Zimbabwe on a 500 MDM, and I believe a 458 B&M. During the course of the hunt both scopes blew large black flakes of something inside them. These flakes were all over the inside of the scope sometimes in the center, sometimes blowing to the bottom or top, and were somewhat aggravating at worst case. Scopes never lost POI and never really presented a big issue. After taking these off they rattled like a baby rattle, so something was out of whack inside. These were sent for repairs soon after......

Finally enough was enough. I started looking elsewhere. But I did not want a 30mm tube, so that ruled those out. I found 3-4 scopes, one small Weaver 1X3, Nikon 1x4, Trijicon 1X4 and something else. The little weaver was very good, but field of view was not quite up to par. I still have it, but have not used it to amount to much. The other scope came up short, can't remember what the brand was, but it was short of eye relief as I recall. Trijicon was good, it almost fit all the requirements, great field of view at close range, good eye relief, but was a little off on trying to get it exactly right on the rifle, one had to move forward a bit to get full field of view. Still have this Trijicon as well, when I bought it price was around $550 or so, now I think they have gone nuts in price. Good scope, never busted or give issue, but not perfect. I also did not care much for the Nikon at the time. The objective was a little larger, the adjustment knobs were larger, field of view was fantastic, Eye relief great, and to me they seemed much clearer and brighter to my eyes than the leupolds. Focus adjustment is very user friendly, POI adjustment crisp and movement correct. Price was incredible, rarely get more than what you pay for! I started shooting it on 500 MDM and 50 B&M. After several 100 rounds I started paying much more attention to it. Zero issues, no problems, nothing, just plain worked. I loved the user friendly focus, adjustment of POI was good, and everything else. I did not care so much about the German #4 reticle, but if these continued to hold without busting, then I would compromise some of these little things I did not like as much, and have. I got another one, then a couple more, and then I switched everything I had to Nikon, larger scopes, about a dozen + now 1X4s, all on Big bore guns that have a reputation of busting things and I have never once had POI go nuts, never busted a Nikon, I don't have any on the bench for repairs, and never have had any, so I can get more work accomplished without having to change scopes and be aggravated with that, Zero Down Time. And the price of these 1X4 Nikons still remains $279.00 and shipping from Midway, or other distributor. I ask, What is not to Like?

Currently I rid myself of nearly every Leupold I have, and all have been replaced with Nikons. I still have 4 of the extended eye relief forward mount Leupold 2X scopes. I have never busted one of those even on the heavy recoiling rifles. Field of view is HORRIBLE with these scopes however, and I am very reluctant to use them in the field because of this........

In a VISE???? No, not hardly, and I don't use those horrible lead sled things either. Just a PAST pad. Running pressures one really has to have hands on, you cannot let that rifle move jerking wires and such loose.......

Like How can I bust Leupold Scopes??? Just like I said above......... I actually shoot them A LOT......

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
In one 18 month period I sent 13 Leupold scopes back for repair. Most of these were 1.5X5 Vari and VX 3s, 1x4 VX 2s, I only owned one 2.5 Compact that has been declared indestructable, at least until the cross hairs on mine fell apart, not to mention the fact that it has a terrible field of view compared to the other models. At one time I ALWAYS had 2-4 scopes at Leupold, and 2-4 on the bench to be sent. I sold 30+ Leupolds at 1/2 price, replaced all of them with Nikon 1X4s, and other Nikon Models. I have run Nikons now over two years since the first one, it is still going strong, and I have yet to have a busted Nikon. Use what you wish based on ego or price, I can't afford so much aggravation and down time from test work or field work, so I use what works.........

Michael

I gave up on Leupolds as well, IMHO a 1X4 S&B is as good as it gets on big bore.