With these big bores, is there any concern about the cartridges in the magazine suffering nose deformation from recoil? I noticed the tip of the first bullet on top of the magazine is hit pretty hard from the recoil of firing the bullet in the chamber. Apparantly the tip is right at the trannsition of the magazine to the feed ramp, and puts a pretty good crease in the tip from recoil.

I see no remedy except just not worrying about it, or perhaps finding a bullet with a tough tip.

KB

I have seen several tests where bullet tip deformation did not effect accuracy very much at normal hunting distances.

I would not worry too much about it in a big bore unless it effected feeding reliability.

I would do my own accuracy test, just to be sure.

test it this way ...
shoot a group of 4 or 5, all single loaded


then a group of 4 or 5 (or 3, if that fits the mag) and see if there's any meaningful difference

Thanks guys. I'll be testing some more this weekend. Naturally, I want assurance this thing is going to work properly before actually getting myself in a situation where I have to rely on it. This big bore shooting is different from just average rifles as it seems that there's more to go wrong. One of the major weak links appears to me to be the bullet remaining where it's suppose to in the case - not backing out or getting pushed further in. Not such a big deal on mild recoiling cartridges.

KB

Handloader magazine had an article by John Barsness a couple of years ago where he tested various bullets by deliberately mangling them. The ones with the nose cut flat or at an angle had little impact on performance. the ones which had a notch cut in the base really opened up groups. I also know that bullets from packets that have been dropped tend to cause accuracy problems.

I wouldn't worry about it, it never seems to have had an effect
on my shooting and I have fired a fair few out of 375H&H and up,
especially 505 Gibbs.

I do try to rotate bullets from the bottom of the mag if possible but
when culling, it's fire and forget.

If I do end up with one mangled, I tend to load it up top but since I run all ammo through the gun each morning before heading out, I have never had a problem.

However Woodleigh made the Protected Points solely for the purpose of tip protection.



Naki
What do you mean by "notch cut in the base" ?????????

Base of the bullet ?

I am certain that bullets, designed for heavy recoiling rifles, have (or) are "protective points".

You can do what the military does and roll ridges in the magazine walls that keep the rounds to the rear. For bottle-neck cases the ridge is just forward of the case shoulder. For straight belted cases you could put the ridge ahead of the belt or so it rides in the extractor groove. The ridges taper out near the top of the mag so the feeding round pops up and is clear. You can retro-fit existing magazines by lining them with the sheet metal bearing ridges or even cut the ridges out of the sheet metal and solder them to the sides of the mag.

quote:

Originally posted by DRS:
I am certain that bullets, designed for heavy recoiling rifles, have (or) are "protective points".

Woodleigh RN SN don't have PP's, which is why Geoff came out with a PP bullet.

Apart from testing the PP bullets in the 505 Gibbs before they first came out, I have never worried about them.

It was interesting doing a direct comparison though into the same animal.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
...
Naki
What do you mean by "notch cut in the base" ?????????

Base of the bullet ?

The article shows various bullets with the nose cut off square & at 45 degrees. Then there were bullets with a v notch cut into the base edge.

My personal experience was with a lot of Rem PSPCL 243 bullets which had either been dropped or rolled around in a truck during shipping. It would not group under 2" and sometimes as much as 3.5". I had a close look at the bullets & compared them with others that shot well. I found tiny nicks, scratches and dents in the whole packet of bullets while all the others were shiny smooth. Now I always check the clear plastic bags of the cheap bullets before I buy them.

Naki

Big Diffrence between a Big Bore and a 243.

Hell, my 243 will put 10 shots into the same sized
hole as one Big Bore round on a target !!! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
One of the major weak links appears to me to be the bullet remaining where it's suppose to in the case - not backing out or getting pushed further in. Not such a big deal on mild recoiling cartridges.
KB

You need to crimp the heavy hitters well.

When you have your crimp set up, test it by leaving the bottom round in the magazine and loading over it for a couple of magazines worth of shooting. Then measure OAL, if it has changed after five or six shots, crimp tighter....

JPK

Yes, indeed. A good crimp will hold the bullet in place.

Soft nose deformation is not a problem at any rational hunting range, however.

For a big bore that is less than 150 yards in any and all cases, IMHO.

If it feeds no problem. If you fire a round or two do not just top off the mag. MY 416 rem rounds grew with each shot till I had feeding problems even with a good crimp. Take one out of the box for the chamber and fill the mag with fresh rounds for each animal.

JD

This Winchester brass that I have is annealed so soft fresh from the box, I'm conderned that the crimp won't hold. Certainly this is something I'll have to test.

I'm wondering if the Hornady brass is better?

I've been careful to trim the length of each cartridge so the crimp will be the same on each loading. There's two crimp dies in the box, and I've yet to figure out which is better. My dies are Redding.

I didn't already mention in this thread, this rifle has a short throat. Basically it's a 458WM, with a 45-70 throat, so it can't afford practically ANY growth in length, or the bullet will jam into the rifling. Once the bolt is closed, if it will close, by pushing the bullet back enough, it will probably be safe to shoot, as I've already tested my loads with the bullet on or very close to the rifling. I've also had the bullet pulled from the case and left in the barrel, jamed in the rifling. The powder spilled inside the magazine. So that's not only a mess, but no doubt unacceptable. The bullet was easily pushed out by running a cleaning rod down from the muzzel end. But of course, in the field, it won't be OK to happen.

I felt it was OK to cut a throat to 45-70 or thereabouts specs, since the same type of problem will happen with 45-70 or short throat 458WM, if the crimp fails to hold the bullet from creeping out of the case. I don't recall hearing or reading of that problem with the 45-70.

Either way, it seems as though I should master the art of crimp.

KB