The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores DG Scope for CZ 550Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have a .458 Lott based on a CZ 550 action built by AHR. My heaviest rifles in the past "not counting my 500 double" were all Model 70's "up to 375" Leupold scopes fit and worked just fine. When I bought this new rifle I had a set of 30 mm Talley QD rings included, I bought one of the new 1-1/4 to 4 VXR scopes to put on it after talking to the Leupold rep at a gun show. The scope turned out to be about a inch to short. I have been just shooting the rifle with the peep site so far and it shoots great. But now I am concerned about what to eventualy stick on the darn thing. The Lott has the potential to be more multy purpose than my 500 if I can get a scope on it. I was told I can mount the VXR by sliding the front ring back as far as possible so to not cover the front lens or it will crush and to not tighten the front ring to much. It might work but........ I did crush the front lens on a Leopold once and they fixed it for free but that does not help me either. I would prefer to stick with the Talley rings and I no Swarovski makes a long tube scope but the only Swarovski I ever owned sucked water like a sponge and they are expencive. There is another post about scopes for big bores here that I read that has me even more concerned based on some comments from Ray. Does anyone have a suggestion? Maybe I just havent thought this out enough. | ||
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I have a CZ .416 Rigby and faced the same decisions. I first tried this set up. Two Q/D rings made by Recknagel which allow a scope with a front bell objective to be mounted as the front base is dished.  It positions the scope quite high which suited me as I shoot head up anyway. I eventually settled on a rather basic system. A VX-IIc 1-4x20 leupold in Warne Q/D rings. The front ring does 'cover' the area of the front lens but I can't imagine it crushing the lens unless you really crank on the tension. No problems so far. | |||
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Same old question. Same old answer: Leupold 1.5-5X VX-III, or whatever they are called these days. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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What Will said. | |||
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Have used the 2.5x Leupold compact, the 1.5-5 Leupold and the 1.8-5.5 Zeiss Conquest on a .416 Rigby and a .458 AR. These have survived well. I used Leupold QRW rings and made my own mounts. They have a recoil shoulder like the Talleys. Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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I have yet not been able to understand how, on on a heavy recoiling rifle, some people are setting up a scope like shown in the picture, and they claim to get away with it. This setup shows what I have to avoid to keep the scope from whacking me in the face from recoil. Head up means to me that head stays put as shoulder goes back, under recoil. In my experience, cheek (not chin) to the stock properly helps to avoid eyebrow cuts. In the picture, this scope is intentionally set way back in the rings. I can't imagine how the shooter deals with eye relief in this setup, since I have to move the scope, the same Leupold 1-4x20, as far forward as possible. If I shot the rifle in the picture, as it is setup now, I would have to be really careful to avoid a cut eyebrow. It would not be an instinctive or natural shot, since I would have to pay attention to issues of recoil and eyebrow cuts instead of simply making the shot. I realize that everyone's anatomy is a little different, but we have many things in common too. I just can't see any merit in a so-called head up stance, with a heavy recoil rifle, and at the same time setting the scope way back, like shown in the picture. I also like to use rings that allow the scope to be as low as possible. Intentionally using rings higher than necessary is contrary to my logic, and definately adds to the awkwardness of a setup. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Yeah, I keep on saying it but it usually falls on deaf ears. Which is also a problem with euro scopes with those long eyepieces. I can feel the blood pouring into my eyes just thinking about them. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Another thing - even if the owner of the rifle finds such a scope setup acceptable, and has adapted his style to it, IMO this is a cut eyebrow waiting to happen on an unsuspecting and inexperienced big bore shooter who may just want to shoot it for fun. There are numerous videos on youtube demonstrating this. To me, it hurts just looking at it. On the subject of Euro scopes, most or at least many have enough extra weight to be self-defeating for use on a big bore. The lighter the scope, the better to stay put in the rings. Long eye relief is essential. There was a rumor that Leupold was going to make a revised edition of the fixed 3x, made specifically for big bores. If so, I wish they would get on with it. The little compact 2.5x missed it's calling, IMO, first because of field of view, and perhaps eye relief. Another thing - I used a 1x4 VXII Leupold shotgun scope on my 458 for a while, until it broke loose inside somewhere. And I wasn't even using full loads. Of course Leupold fixed it, but in the meanwhile, I had a good set of iron sights installed. So far, I have no intentions of putting a scope back on it, except for use with reduced loads. I see the recommendations for the 1.5x5 Leupold, and I don't know if they are made differently internally, and will hold up or not. I think the 1x4 will not hold up for very long. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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+1 _______________________ | |||
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+1 Leupold 1.5-5x on a CZ 550 500 Jeffery, Talley QR Rings, 500 full power loads, no issues  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I have a Leupold VXIII 1.75X6 on my CZ550 in 458Lott. The rings are standard not QD. | |||
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bushnell elite 3200 2x7x32 .. has stood up to hundreds of rounds, many off the evil lead sled, in mine. the "same old answer" isn't the ONLY answer .. but most people stop at the first, rather than investigate the remaining, "yes" opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I am looking at the picture of the scope on Chucks rifle "nice rifle" and I cant believe my eyes. My VXR is almost touching the gold ring with the front base as far back as you can reasonably put it. In the picture of of Chucks rifle there is lots of room. According to what I found on the Leuopld web site the scopes are identical in length @ 9.5". When I get home I need to have a second look. | |||
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Such a scope is available through the Leupold custom shop. Hop over the www.24hourcampfire.com and do a search in their optics forum. Several members have purchased this scope. Of course one could also pick up an older long tube Leupold 3x or 4x scope. I picked up a mint long tube 4x at an auction for $130. I was going to use it on a .22 then realized it would fit nicely on my 416 Rigby RSM, so it now serves as a backup scope for that rifle. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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I went to Leupold's custom shop web page. No 3x fixed power scope listed. https://customshop.leupold.com/custom_shop.php KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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I've got a 4.5-14 Zeiss on my 375 H&H, but I'm hunting elk. I like the Hunter series Aimpoint for DG. I don't know if I could find 34mm mounts for the CZ, but if I had to go into the jess for buff, or the alders for brown bear, I think that's the setup I'd have. FWIW, I have an ML2 on my Socom, and recommend Aimpoint without reservations. | |||
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Like Will, a lot is falling on deaf ears or folks that have not been there. The 1x4 is a great little scope but its too short and you can crush the front lens with a recoiling rifle. The other thing is you cannot compare the 375, 416, and even the 458 Win with a 458 Lott when it comes to trashing the innards of a scope, those medium big bores are fine with about any good quality scope and mounts..The big bores like the 458 Lott, 500 Jefferys, 505 Gibbs, 470 Capstick etc. are scope busters..Some get by with about any scope as most big bores are closet queens IMO, at least I have never seen a used one that showed any bore or throat wear, not in all my years. These guns can trash a scope anywhere from 20 to 300 rounds..The only scope capable of extended firing in these big bores is the 2.5X compact..It will hold up better than any other scope I have tried, and I believe it is the only scope that will, and perhaps if one is lucky some of the others will, but none have for me. But the best solution IMO is a set of iron sights or a good Williams Receiver sight with the apature removed and tossed in the trash can. These are fast sights suitable at 200 to even 300 yards max, if the shooter is capable. The Lott and larger are not long range cartridges under even the best of conditions. The longest shot I have been presented while packing a big bore was 225 yards on a buffalo and it was one of the few instant kills on buffalo that I have made. The rifle was a .416 Rem with 400 gr. Northfork softm, broadside in the heart and with a very high shoulder hold. If one wants a long range big bore then I suspect the 375/404 Jefferys Imp. case much on the order of Saeeds rifles is the best way to go. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have wrecked a 2.5x leupold on my .585 Nyati in a little over 120 shots. The next scope that will be going on it will be a NXS 1-4. I am having a .500 A2 put together and have a 1-4 NXS ready to go on that as well. I doubt any rifle able to be carried by humans will wreck an NXS scope they are in another leauge as far as ruggedness goes in comparison to leupold IMHO. | |||
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NXS 1-4. That is interesting, and expensive: http://www.nightforceoptics.co...pact_1-4x24_nxs.html Compare to Leupold 1.5x5: http://www.leupold.com/hunting...x20mm-illum-reticle/ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Well Double-D you can see there are lots of options. Not all of them are manufactured in the USA. You might look around. The cost of those options is very little to the cost of ammo (even handloads) once you start shooting. What works for you will be the right choice. | |||
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I'm glad to hear that others occasionally feel that a 225 yard buffalo shot can be done responsibly. Probably out into a wide mbuga (flat drainage plain between forests). The Rigby loaded to its potential will allow flatter shooting for these occasions. But back to scopes -- Eye-relief. 4" is better than 3". Many of the scopes only have 3.5" at higher magnification settings, which is a non-starter for me. I currently use a 2-8 Nikon on a Rigby loaded to 2800fps 350 grain. It is light, just fits on a CZ 550, and sits as far forward as is physically possible, less 1/8". The 2.0 magnification setting is a true 2.0 (not 2.3 or 2.6) and has 4" eye-relief, which is reasonable. (I would opt for more eyerelief if the price, glass, reliability and weight would fit.) The 8.0 setting gives up a little at 3.8" eye-relief. But a shot where one cranks up the scope to 8 power is usually a shot with a little extra time. There is no eyebrow problem on the bench. The Bushnell Elite 6500 1.25-8 is pricey but the eyerelief is fantastic. the other manufacturers should take note. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Just my $.02, yanno, but dangerous game at 200 + yards isn't dangerous. I shot a buff at 110 once because that was a close as I could get. I'd much prefer to be under 100. And since I can put my bullets exactly where I want them with peep sights at that range, what's this jazz about a scope on a DGR for? Sarge Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle . . . for one hundred years! | |||
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Dangerous game is dangerous game, range has little to do with it IMO...For one thing buff are hard to kill and at any range its very likely that they will get into the high grass or bush and then the picture changes and that is more likely when you shoot one at extended ranges or so it seems to me.. Never the less, up close or way out yonder is hunting in general and sometimes both kinds or shots are the option..I have shot many buffalo at over 100 yards, mostly with iron sights and many up close.. I always try to get as close as possible but sometimes the big boys only give you one chance, and it may not be a close shot. The main thing is know your capabilities and stay within your accuracy zone. On the real big bores I have settled on a shallow V iron sight or a good Williams receiver sight..I say a Williams as I prefer the adjustments that cannot be fiddled with by curious camp staffers. On some of my guns I will pack a scope in my day bag and I have QD mounts. Handy if you see a good Kudu or whatever in the course of a days hunting. Probably the best way to determine your needs is experience and lots of it, but we all seem to get by with whatever decisions we make. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The new Trijicon 1X4 with 30mm tube. An option You get an illuminated reticle of your choice and color without batteries. Great scope, have several hundered rounds thru my 416 Rigby. Good Shooting Tetonka | |||
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Nikon Monarch African 1-4x20 ReticleGerman #4 FinishMatte Actual Magnification1x-4x Effective Objective Diameter20mm Exit Pupil (mm)4 (at 4x) Eye Relief (in.)4.1 - 4.0 FOV at 100 yds (ft.)92.9 - 23.1 Tube Diameter1 in. Objective O.D. (mm/in)25.4/1 Eyepiece O.D. (mm/in)41/1.61 Length (in)10.35 Weight (oz)12.16 Adjustment Graduation (1 click)1/2 MOA Max. Internal Adjustment120 MOA Parallax setting (yds)100 Huge FOV and constant 4" of eye relief. Street price as low as $230 with a little searching. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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One wonders how many rounds have been through some of these guns with the recommended scopes. PC, I am a tad surprised you ruined a Leupold 2.5 compact but on the Nyati I venture to say it will also ruin any scope in time, the guts just break loose in them sooner or later.. I don't know any DG that cannot be killed cleanly with a good receiver sight, the are as accurate as a scope at up to say 150 to 200 yards, and much faster IMO, a top of the back hold will get your buff every time at 150 yards or more. and the irons are a damn sight better up close and personal. I put scopes on .375s, maybe even a .416 or 404 with QD mounts, and thats where I stop using them. I pack the 375 and 40 calibers without the scope but have it available if I need to stick it on the gun..You will have more time to put it on than you will have to take it off has been my experience. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray in regards to scopes that can take a beating I am suprised that more big bore rifles are not wearing 1-4 Nightforce NXS scopes......youd be hard pressed to kill one of these they are in a different leauge for ruggedness IMHO, I bought one to go on a .500 A2 I am having done and the Nyati in time will also wear one. | |||
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I've had my old El Paso all-steel Weaver K 2.5 on a number of kickers and it's still in one piece. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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The Leupold 2.5 scout on the bolt 600 is very handy & fast. But like Ray says, I can shoot the irons just about as well out to 100 yards in an off-hand hunting enviroment and they are the faster than anything else up close. I had a Leupold 1.5-5 on the single shot and shot it a bunch. Then moved it to my current 375 Sauer 202 375 H&H and it hasn't given me any problems.   | |||
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Watch ebay for a Schmidt & Bender standard 1.25x4scope. If you are lucky you can find one with the extended eye relief that save you from getting hit in the eye. The Zenith is too short but the standard works and is optically excellent. | |||
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The problem is you need the scope to pick out a lane through the bush through which to place your bullet, and often to make out the right spot on the buffalo. When buff are in the jesse, you seldom get even a glimpse at the whole buffalo. The problem is not shooting them at 200 yards. The problem is finding, quickly, a path at 30 yards which will not deflect the bullet. A stopping rifle is different from a hunting rifle. For a stopping rifle, you don't want a scope and you want a double. Range will be very short. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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Lots of good input on this problem and I may one day try and put the scope on the Lott. But for now and having shot the rifle quite a bit with the peep site I have found it to be prity darn accurate the way it is. Bottom line I have followed Ray's advice and will use the peep site on the hunt. I can find a home for the scope on my 416 or something else. I hope to send pictures of the rifle leaning on some ivory in a few months. God willing that is. | |||
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Ive shot may share of buffalo and only once used a scoped rifle( It was in my hands when the buff showed up). I've been experimenting with a small red dot ( JP enterprises) on the front bridge with a swing away mount. I'm damn impressed so far. Put up a paper pate at 40 yrds and I can hit faster and more accurately with this than with open sights. I look through the optic with both eyes and don't sacrifice anything. Try it you'll like it. No way to get a scope cut, fast, accurate and if you want longer sights just flip it out of the way.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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I have a Trijicon 1.25x4 with Leupold QD rings on my Browning Safari in .458 Win Mag. Stands the recoil and makes for a great combination with plenty of eye relief. DRSS Sabatti 450\400 NE Merkel 140-2 500 NE | |||
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or a bolt-action in 0.5+ cal  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Absolutely. | |||
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The Leupy eye-relief goes down to 3.7" at the highpower and is not as good as the Minox 1.5-8, which remains >4.0" throughout the power range. I've never tried the Minox, but after some reviews and comparisons with Leupold and Nikon 2-8 (with 3.8" eye-relief at 8x), I think that I will lean toward the Minox at $500 for a .500 calibre, and maybe even as a replacement on a flatshooting 416 Rigby (2800fps, 350gr.). +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I did break a 1.5 x 5 on my Ruger #1 shooting monster loads in my 375, seated out to end of long, very long, ruger throat. Over 3.75 as I recall. Almost equal to a 375 improved. But, being Luepold, they fixed it promptly at no cost. Id try that first, then move to a more expensive scope if necessary. My one concern for you is the FOV. For elephant you really need 100 feet at 100 yds which is only 10 feet at ten yards. The Luepold is only 60 as I recall. Sounds nit picky but Id use peep first, then really wide FOV for a Lott. Trijicon might be most appropriate for the money??? The 30mm tubes make a big ststement on a rifle. the Nikon sounds interesting. Andy PS I used an old 3 X Luepold on my CZ 550 AHR 450 Dakota. OK for close PG but not enbough FOV for elephant. Andy | |||
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416Tarzan Do you really think .3" is going to make that much difference ? | |||
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From what I've been told, Send Micheal458 a PM and ask him how many 1.5 - 5 Leupolds he's broken, it might give you a very big surprise ? Also NIKON Slughunter, has 5 inches of constant eye relief, magnification is 1.65 - 5, parallax set at 75 yards ....... NIKON Omega, has 5 inches of constant eye relief, magnification is 1.65 - 5 parallax set at 100 yards ....... has anybody tried one of these ? regards S&F | |||
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