OK...I know Butch Searcy has been known to post here and maybe things have changed since this rifle was done but does anyone else find this level of engraving unacceptable on a $30,000 rifle? Again, I am not trying to start a war here or deny the functional qualities of Butch's work but only offer a polite suggestion regarding the aesthetic options available to his customers. I write this because I spoke with him around a year ago about ordering a PH model and was told I had no choice but to use "his" engraver. I chose another option rather than be handcuffed in this way. Am I too picky to want more options?

Just curious,

John

I have only seen four of his guns, all from about 4 years apart and thought all had less-than-adequate quality engraving for the genre.

I would certainly buy one of his guns but I'd get a slick working model and not pay a dime extra for that.

John,

If you passed on his 'engraver', you made the right decision.

That example is terrible.

George

John,

That engraving really sucks. There's no nicer way to say it.

Hey, you guys are trying to put my kids out of business! Until you find another 9-year old that does better work, keep your complaints to yourself.

Most people do not understand how much full coverage engraving, with life like animals, costs. It starts at $20,000 and goes up according to quality and engraver name.

Most engravers cannot do both, scroll and animals, to the same level of excellance. Shoot most engravers can't do either.

If you want some engraving than you are better off getting a smaller amount by a good engraver than a large amount by a poor one for the same money.

Better off with no engraving than with poor or average engraving.

I don't know anything about Searcy's rifles, other than what I've heard. Sounds to me like they are built like a tank and, to me, are very aesthetically pleasing. Not to be over critical, but I've always been rather perplexed by his choice of engravers.

Here is some engraving by another maker and engraver.

Yep, horrible. Crude in execution in every way, including perspective that has the foreground buff smaller than the background buff.

Glad my Merkel has only a few simple scrolls on the coin finished receiver.

Of course one is better off without cartoon animals on a Merkel too.

A 10.5 pound Merkel .500 NE with the plain receiver is a thing of beauty indeed.

But I could put up with the H&H that Mickey just posted.

An engraver needs the mechanical ability to engrave, an artists eye,and a great knowledge of animal anatomy. He doesn't !!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
Am I too picky to want more options?

Just curious,

John

No, you're not being too picky. That gun sells for 30K - not 9500 - and it should have better engraving at that price.

It's quite disappointing. The other sample that Mickey1 showed is out of this world!!

I like Butch's rifles, and the small amount of scroll engraveing on the PH model is about all I'm interested in! I have to agree with the rank and file here on this particular example of the Cape Buffalo plate. I think a small amount of shallow scroll would be an improvement here! As RIP stated, I like the tiny sprinkeling of very light scroll on my two Merkel doubles, much better, but would rather have none at all. Still I would certainly trade my 470NE Merkel for the one this string was posted about. I could always polish the engraveing off,because it isn't too deep, and leave the area slick!

I would rather a plain rifle than that it looks a little tacky !!

I saw this also at Bass Pro, Was very dissapointed in the engraving job done on it. Supposed to be a best quality DR. While the wood and craftmanship are all very nice the engraving is an eyesore. Who are the best engravers in the USA or abroad for Deep relief engravings like the DR in the Purdey catalog.

http://www.purdey.com/expressdouble.php

Now thats some slick engraving!

I've rarely, if ever, seen an engraved animal of any sort that looks 'right'.
Scrollwork, or whatever, usually has its levels of beauty, but animals should be painted, not engraved.
The H&H picture has beautiful work on it, but even on this one, the animal scene throws it off...they don't look right together.
As for the "$30,000.00; use my engraver, or else"; I'd opt OUT and go elsewhere.
Good Luck!

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
I saw this also at Bass Pro, Was very dissapointed in the engraving job done on it. Supposed to be a best quality DR. While the wood and craftmanship are all very nice the engraving is an eyesore. Who are the best engravers in the USA or abroad for Deep relief engravings like the DR in the Purdey catalog.

http://www.purdey.com/expressdouble.php

Now thats some slick engraving!

Bulldog

You won't find Purdey quality engraviing on a $30000 rifle.

I'd ballpark the engraving cost on the Purdey at 40 g's.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
Here is some engraving by another maker and engraver.

What's the deal with all the blue dots?

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Who are the best engravers in the USA or abroad for Deep relief engravings like the DR in the Purdey catalog.

Well I know Scrollcutter is engraving some rifles for Rigby and has done some work on a Boddington rifle.

Mickey,

I don't think anyone expects $40,000 worth of engraving on a $30,000 rifle. It would make more sense to me, however, for Searcy to offer perhaps NO engraving on the PH model for the current price and then "proper" engraving at "real world" prices on grades above that. Butch eventually did relent and offer "no engraving" as an option in our conversations but frankly I didn't even want "his" guy to do the calibre/maker designation and an inscription the fiance and I wanted.

JMHO,

John

JTG

My point was in referance to the picture you showed. Full coverage, animal scenes, cannot be done in a quality manner on a $30k rifle. Not unless you are happy with the quality you posted.

I don't think a Searcy would be worth putting 30-40k worth of engraving on. It is just not that expensive a rifle.

I think he does himself a diservice by having poor engraving on his rifles and could at least allow customers to use and pay for their own engraver.

Like I said before, none is better than not well done.

I may have it incorrect, but my impression was that Searcy throws in a thousand dollars worth of "free" engraving on his rifles (done by his engraver). If you don't want the engraving, the price is still 9500 bucks for the rifle.

PS The blue dots are nitred screws on the inside of the lockplate that hold the bridle, hammer, sear, ect. in place.

Bad engraving can cause the value of a gun to drop by more than a thousand dollars...

Please excuse me, I don't mean to interupt. But I just my pathetic life put into perspective for me.

My first firearm of any sort was a $64 Mosin-Nagant in 7.62 X 54.

Then I upgraded to a Savage 11 in 7mm Rem. Mag. Hunted with that thing for nine years. Didn't like the plastic trigger guard and other pieces, but you never had to worry about them rusting.

Then I hit the big leagues, A stainless 700DM in 7mm08. Whew, big bucks for a $11 an hour servive tech.

And most recently, $1200.00 for a new Beretta trap gun. Lordy I was finally one of the elite. I could walk out to the range among the hobknobs and hold my head high with pride. I had finally reached the pinnacle of my shooting.

Then I read this article. And you guys say that you really can't expect great ingraving in a $30,000 rifle!!!

It just puts things into perspective for me.

Carry on, Gents

Jason

Good point.

It takes much longer and is more labour intensive to engrave a rifle than to make it.

I think Butch will cut down the price on a rifle by at least a few hundred bucks if you get no engraving.

Scrollcutter, can you post a few pics of your engraving?

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
I don't think a Searcy would be worth putting 30-40k worth of engraving on. It is just not that expensive a rifle.

I think he does himself a diservice by having poor engraving on his rifles and could at least allow customers to use and pay for their own engraver.

I think your first point has a lot to do with the second. Perhaps in order to build a "top shelf" reputation and become "worth" $30K dollar engraving it would be a good policy to not allow anything out the door that looked just plain goofy. I'm not going to tell anyone how to run their business but company policies that handcuff or encourage the customer into accepting work that devalues the actual purchase (as 500grains mentions and Roger's post implies) just can't be wise.

Again, I'm not bashing the weapon (Hell, I want one in a big way) but how about dropping the price a bit or maintaning the current price on a blank gun for a bit longer before essentially penalizing customers the stated $1000 (yes, I realize it's not worth that amount to Butch) for wanting decent aesthetics.

JMHO,

John

Granted the below rifle is a lefty (therefore probably a bit of a bargain) and selling as part of pair ($60K for both) but it seems like this is a bit closer (just a bit ) to what the engaving on a used $30K rifle should look like.

JMHO,

John

The Elephants aren't particularly well done. These are better, in proportion but the tusks are weak I think.




I like this Elephant better.

Mickey,

I agree with you...gorgeous work. Notice though the subtlety of the discussion at this point. With the elephants on the $30K Dumoulin above vs. the H&H elephants you posted, the critiques are comments like "well, those ears are a little too big", or "those tusks are a bit too long" or "too 'bright' relative to the background" or are "angled a little funny". When engraving reaches THAT level, I am a happy man. When the question is "why is that buffalo floating six inches above his habitat on crudely engraved hooves?" or "why is the bull which is closer to me so much smaller"....I lose interest. The Dumoulin is, I think a good example of NOT spending $30-40K on only engraving and still getting a damn pretty rifle.

Best,

John

P.S.

I think I would have chosen "Dzombo" to grace MY double.

So who can someone go to to get a good quality of engraving at a price tag less then 10 grand, maybe 15 at the most?

If I wanted a Searcy double, I would order it w/o engraving.
If I needed any extensive engraving done, I would go to the Reno guild show and talk to a number of engravers, look at examples of their work and get a cost estimate.

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
So who can someone go to to get a good quality of engraving at a price tag less then 10 grand, maybe 15 at the most?

Sure. Three ways to do it, each with positives and minuses. The surest way is to go to a well established engraver and opt for less coverage. As you see above, a little great engraving is better than a whole lot of not-so-good.

Second is do enough homework to find an up-and-comer who does decent work and is trying to get a name out there. The rates will be lower. There is some risk here as the individual has no reputaion to lose but that can be mitigated with good homework. As their rep rises, so does the relative value of the work the did for you.

The third is to find someone with very good skills in a limited area of engraving. They aren't usually able to command the big bucks because of their limitations but if you are satified with the one or two styles that they can do well then go for it.

Main thing to develop (as an under-funded engraving client) is patience. I should know, LOL. I have some work I want done and I know who I want to do it but I need to get the funds in order. It would be easier to pass the work onto a different person to "get'r done" but the point is to do it right, not soon.

I'm not very happy about pictorial engraving at all. Good stuff is extremely expensive, and bad stuff keeps me awake at night -

Holland&Holland have not very high standards on their engraving, and will deliver stuff Purdey would never tolerate. The above elephants from H&H are quite fugly.

If one can afford it, go for the best, and make sure there is a guarantee if you are not satisfied.

If I needed bling-bling on a gun, scroll would make me happy.

Here we go again,
First what makes you think that I sold that rifle for $30,000.00. I have no control of how a second hand rifle is priced. Secondly I have two engravers that works for me. And I use one or the other depending on the style a customer wants. Also the engraver gives the customer exactly what he is willing to pay for. This is the only thing that dictates quality. My customers get exactly what they are willing to pay for.
The rifle in question was made about 10 yrs. ago, and to those that has followed the evolution of my business over the yrs. knows how the quality of my rifles have evolved.
My PH Model will not go out without my standard engraving on it.
As to those that wish to use their engravers I have no problem with that, just remember that my policy on that is, when the rifle is sent to your engraver, I must be paid in full for the rifle. I won't tolorate the schedules of most engravers.

quote:

My PH Model will not go out without my standard engraving on it.

Why is that? Maybe I'm a bit strange, but I prefer it to be either "all the way" (like in some of Mickeys posts) or "none at all" when it comes to engraving. As my budget would be closer to "none at all", is it not possible to order one of your doubles with no engraving?

Butch's PH rifle ($9500):

Butch's Deluxe rifle ($15000):

Butch's Sidelock ($18000):

Examples of the current quality of engraving: New engraving

George

perhaps this engraving is a bit more up to date for production standards.