We have just listed three unique double rifles on our site http://doublegunhq.com, all hand-made by a genius known only to a small circle: Claude Bouchet.

This man's trademark is the monolithic barrel set, ie both barrels are milled from one predrilled steel billet, so there are no joints to solder, no ribs to come loose, and the barrels are able to handle the most powerful cartridges. To wit, one is a 460 Wby, one a 500 A Square, and the coup-de-grace is a 24lb monster in 577 Tyrannosaur.

Strength and power are only two unique aspects of these rifles. The workmanship is unsurpassed. Each has hand detachable locks of a proprietary design, with all internal parts gold-plated. The guns are profusely engraved with appropriate game scenes. Every part is hand-made and hand-fitted. I see a lot of fine guns but I am left speechless by these guns.

The discerning collector who wants to own (and shoot!) a phenomenal example of modern engineering and classic gunmaker's art must take a look at these guns.

We currently have over twenty double rifles listed on our site, ranging from your basic shooter right on up to these unique collector pieces. Do take a moment to browse through the selection.

Russ your web address didn't work! Try this one! http://www.doublegunhq.com

HIS patented mono-blok "BOTH BARRELS" made from a single billet of steel, not brazeing, soldering, no ribs and weighs 25 lbs. I'm sure it regulates properly! $150,000 US YEH RIGHT!

Why anyone would buy a double rifle in those chamberings is beyond me.

Seems like they are marketed to a very select group, very rich, very stupid, and no sense of style. Just my opinion

25 lb? John Taylor's 600NE was only 16 lb. Just how nasty is this cartridge?

Russ,
Truely unique. These are not to my tastes, but they are truely amazing in appearence.

Some feedback for this gentleman, there is no need for a 500 asquare to weight 19+#... should a person be unable to withstand that recoil, I strongly doubt they could hold and hit a 19# rifle.

The design is interesting... with the huge, and I assume very strong, actions, certainly appear that they could be scaled down to a slighter size, for the normal rounds of such like 577 nitro and 470...


I am amazed at the size and weight, along with the pressure, that these can withstand.

jeffe

It's always fun to look at unique rifles. Thanks for the links.

It was the comma that got stuck to the end of the link, link should work now

quote:

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Originally posted by MacD37:
Russ your web address didn't work! Try this one! http://www.doublegunhq.com

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Very nice engraving, but a little thick in the wrist.

Someone should get Claude together with Ed Hubel for some modern 1, 2, & 4 bore action. That would be truly interesting.

How is everyone missing the main point, that shows this guy is a fine machinest, but knows nothing about building a double rifle!

The weight,(25#) and cartridge are not the problem, though neither are needed in a double rifle. The problem is his attempt to side step the regulation process. This has been tried before, and there is no way a rifle can be regulated by a machineing formula. Two double rifles that are machined identically, will still have to be regulated differently for the same load.

Not to mention what's the point of trying to sidestep regulation like that if the gun costs $150 000 anyway.
You'd think it would have a more positive effect on the price.


Karl.

quote:

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Originally posted by MacD37:
How is everyone missing the main point, that shows this guy is a fine machinest, but knows nothing about building a double rifle!

The weight,(25#) and cartridge are not the problem, though neither are needed in a double rifle. The problem is his attempt to side step the regulation process. This has been tried before, and there is no way a rifle can be regulated by a machineing formula. Two double rifles that are machined identically, will still have to be regulated differently for the same load.

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Actually sir, you are not only a self-appointed expert with a sanctimonious attitude, but you are also wrong, at least in this case. These guns are all perfectly regulated and will stay that way forever. If someone will tell me how to get permission turned on to post photos, I will post diagrams. How he does it I am not at liberty to say. Suffice it to say that the regulation is done after the rifle is built, not using some formula.

The point is not to "Try to sidestep regulation", but rather to achieve ultimate strength in a double rifle. This construction method not only avoids brazing, solder and ribs, but allows a novel design of locking lug that adds to the action's strength. The point IS to make the world's strongest double rifle.

The weight of the guns is on the heavy side. However, that's by choice not by necessity. The construction technique does not itself dictate a heavy rifle.

Surely a technical tour de force, however I am old and crotchety enough to prefer the original style, especially at the price differential. Besides, I don't particularly like those borings anyway. Good luck to him, though.

quote:

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Originally posted by 45LCshooter:
25 lb? John Taylor's 600NE was only 16 lb. Just how nasty is this cartridge?

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Bullet of 48,7 gr X 750 M/S ( E°= 1330 kgm or... 13.047 joules !!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Recoil: 6,48 kgm

That's 750 grains at 2950 fps. That's like firing 3 338 Win Mag ctgs simultaneously. Can't figure the momentum conversion, sure someone else can.

Now there's a good reason for a heavy rifle!

Russ

Just hit the picture icon and add the url.

I see no reason that somebody that was an expert at heat bending couldn't regulate a rifle.

If a 60 foot box girder can be moved 1/8 inch a set of barrels could be made to shoot straight.

Russ,
the round tops out at 2600 fps, and is STILL more than a man can handle... in fact, the trex is Saeed's dancing rifle

http://www.accuratereloading.com/577tyr.html

for load data at this site...

Here's the issues traditionalists will have with these rounds in doubles

1: HIGH pressure
2: High Pressure
3: not flanged rounds
4: weight... the 577 nitro, 750 at 2165 (that's what WE get) at 14# is bearable, both in recoil and in carrying...

the 500a2, loaded to double pressures, is a 600 gr at 2100... and can be shot in a 9# gun...


This is constructive feedback, not nay saying...

if these were, say, in 577 NE, 500 NE, and 470 NE, and were 14, 11, and 9.5#, you would find the traditionalists more open...

in fact, I would say that they would be down right open, especially if the price was more in line with a modern double (one can't spend 1/2 that on a searcy AND a lion hunt)

yes, the searcy can't be had in those calibers, and, in my CHOICE, for good reasons


Awesome looking guns, and I am certain he could slim these down to at least appear to be sporting firearms, rather than large scale demonstrations of technique.

jeffe

quote:

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The weight,(25#) and cartridge are not the problem, though neither are needed in a double rifle. The problem is his attempt to side step the regulation process. This has been tried before, and there is no way a rifle can be regulated by a machineing formula. Two double rifles that are machined identically, will still have to be regulated differently for the same load.

---

These guns are all perfectly regulated and will stay that way forever. If someone will tell me how to get permission turned on to post photos, I will post diagrams. How he does it I am not at liberty to say. Suffice it to say that the regulation is done after the rifle is built, not using some formula.


The weight of the guns is on the heavy side. However, that's by choice not by necessity. The construction technique does not itself dictate a heavy rifle.

Actually sir, you are not only a self-appointed expert with a snactimonious attitude, but you are also wrong, in this case. .[/QUOTE]


Well, Mr. Gould, I guess that put me in my place!!! Looking at the so-called credits in your signature, it is a toss up just who is a self appointed expert, with a sanctimonious attitude. But that's alright, you go ahead, and posture if it makes you feel like a man!

Now to the facts! You said the barrels were made from a one piece of billit of steel for both barrels, WITH NO RIBS, OR WELDING or soldering at all. To me this sounds like a flat piece of steel with two holes drilled through them and rifled, and chambered. If this is the case, then the convergence has to be drilled in when bored. I submit this is a formula of a machined convergence, and it will not work, every time. And don't come off here with the lazer alignment , because that doesn't work either. I submit, if this thing is the way you discribe, and it does regulate, it is more because of the ton of weight, more than skill of manufacture. Anything can be made so heavy it will regulate because of the lack of barrel flip, but you need wheels to drag it along with the Bakki! All that weight is not needed to make the rifle strong enough to handle the cartridges you are pointing at! Is is the lock up system that needs to be strong!

Now sir, if I misunderstood what you said, and the barrels are, in fact, seperated,(The pictures you posted are so dark the barrels cannot even be seen), and regulation is accomplished in the normal manner, and then effectively tied together, so they do not move,EVER, as you put it, then that is a horse of a different flavor!

Mr. Gould, it amazes me why a person will say things while hideing behind a keyboard, that he wouldn't dare to say when face to face with a real live person. I simply disagree with the validity of your post, if it is done the way you say! However,disagreement, is no justification for your outburst.

I just erased the last sentence I wrote, because if I had posted it, that would have made methe pompus ass that you accuse me of being! All I can say is, if you are right, it takes one to know one, so I'm not alone!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mickey1:
Russ

Just hit the picture icon and add the url. [QUOTE]

Here are the diagrams for the three rifles. They were fired by French Champion Jean Pierre Briole and published in a French gun magazine a few years back. The distance each was fired at is noted on the target. One target is erroneously labeled 470 Wby, should ready 460 Wby.
500 A Square at 120m (135 yards)

500 Tyrannosaur at 80m (90 yards)

460 Wby Mag at 100 m (110 yards)


Again, the barrels are regulated after the gun is made, not during the drilling process. They are not split apart and rewelded. The integrity of the steel billet is maintained.

Regarding weight, Claude will make a gun by this method in any caliber and any weight desired (within reason). It's your shoulder!

Russ,
I am with ya on it being cool, but the targets are rubbish

jeffe

quote:

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

Here's the issues traditionalists will have with these rounds in doubles

1: HIGH pressure
2: High Pressure
3: not flanged rounds
4: weight... the 577 nitro, 750 at 2165 (that's what WE get) at 14# is bearable, both in recoil and in carrying...

the 500a2, loaded to double pressures, is a 600 gr at 2100... and can be shot in a 9# gun...


This is constructive feedback, not nay saying...

if these were, say, in 577 NE, 500 NE, and 470 NE, and were 14, 11, and 9.5#, you would find the traditionalists more open...

in fact, I would say that they would be down right open, especially if the price was more in line with a modern double (one can't spend 1/2 that on a searcy AND a lion hunt)


Awesome looking guns, and I am certain he could slim these down to at least appear to be sporting firearms, rather than large scale demonstrations of technique.

jeffe

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These guns are NOT for traditionalists, they are very untraditional in appeance, construction, caliber, weight, and cosmetics. Nice guns in 470 NE are dime a dozen (in relative terms). Think of these as concept cars! They are unique works of engineering and art, not intended as workaday guns. As the French say, vive la difference!

The price is the price. Each gun required approximately 3500 man-hours to complete. There is only one of each in existence, and he won't be making any more like these (although he might make two more interesting guns in his lifetime), so we aren't appealing to the "market" here. These are guns for metaphorical kings. Not for the faint-hearted!

quote:

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Russ,
I am with ya on it being cool, but the targets are rubbish

jeffe

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Well regulated????????? Those are not groups, they are patterns! $150,000

You're right about one thing, Mr. Gould, it is uneque,and is not for the treditionalist, or even someone who wants a double rifle that is regulated, because that one is certainly not!


..............

They are unique, I'll give them that!

I do have to agree on MacD37 on the regulation. I've regulated my share of double rifles and I wouldn't brag about those targets unless they were done at 200 yards.

I think I could get over the nontraditional look faster than the idea of using a double rifle lock up design with cartridges headed toward twice the operating pressure of other rifles using a double rifle lock up. Sure it's been done by other people but that doesn't make it safe or a good idea.

Give them to Geoff Miller, I bet he could sell them for twice that much!

Kyler

Ugly!! Yuck! Glad they're way outta my price range! I hope they come with wheels and a pintle hook!!

quote:

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Originally posted by MacD37:

Well regulated????????? Those are not groups, they are patterns! $150,000

You're right about one thing, Mr. Gould, it is uneque,and is not for the treditionalist, or even someone who wants a double rifle that is regulated, because that one is certainly not!


..............

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Again you demonstrate your "expertise"! Regulation is getting the groups from both barrels centered on the same point at a given distance for a given shooter. You need at least 3 shots from each bbl to draw any firm conclusions about regulation, if not 5 from each. Regulation (for a given load and 'hold') is purely determined by the construction of the gun. Group size is an entirely different matter, and is determined by the skill of the shooter (in this case a very skilled shooter), the precision of the sights (in this case open express sights), the weather (not much of a factor with this heavy a caliber), and the ammunition (in this case nothing special done).

From these diagrams, since they are composite left/right diagrams, I think one can only conclude that the barrels do not appear to be shooting to different points of aim, although more shots are needed to make that conclusion definite. In other words the gun appears to be regulated. And there IS a method to regulate guns constructed in this manner. Those were the main points of debate. However, I agree that 90mmx115mm at 80m is not outstanding grouping (referring to the 577 diagram). It is highly likely that these groups would improve with a little fine-tuning of the loads, and certainly with a scope.

For those who don't think the weight is necessary, think of it this way. An 8lb 338 firiing a 250 grain bullet has a decent (quite hefty) recoil. A 24 lb rifle firing a 750 gr bullet at roughly the same velocity would kick about the same, since the bullet:gun ratio is about the same.

The other two groups were fired at 100m (110 yards) and 120m (135 yards) respectively.

If you want a definitive characterization of these guns, call Holland & Holland in London. They have seen them all and they hold them in very high regard. Surely a man of MacD's expertise and experience has several persons affiliated with that firm in his rolodex?

Russ,

a 4.5" group is RUBBISH.. since that's 80m, that's MORE THAN 5.5 MOA...

In fact, I sent a PEDERSOLLI double muzzleloader in for regulation, and it shot better than 4.5 MOA... It's about 2.5 moa now.. and, for a front stuffer, about as good as it will get. btw, that was a $500 front stuffer that out shoots a 150,000$ rifle that can't be carried in the field.

jeffe

If I had the $150000.00 and bought the thing and it shot that kind of group I would send it back and tell the man to give me my money back..I would be ashamed to say I spent that much and then show those targets..

quote:

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:

quote:

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Originally posted by MacD37:

Well regulated????????? Those are not groups, they are patterns! $150,000

You're right about one thing, Mr. Gould, it is uneque,and is not for the treditionalist, or even someone who wants a double rifle that is regulated, because that one is certainly not!


..............

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Again you deminstrate your "EXPERTISE"! Regulation is getting the groups from both barrels centered on the same point at a given distance for a given shooter. You need at least 3 shots from each bbl to draw any firm conclusions about regulation, if not 5 from each. Regulation (for a given load and 'hold') is purely determined by the construction of the gun. Group size is an entirely different matter, and is determined by the skill of the shooter (in this case a very skilled shooter), the precision of the sights (in this case open express sights), the weather (not much of a factor with this heavy a caliber), and the ammunition (in this case nothing special done).

From these diagrams, since they are composite left/right diagrams, I think one can only conclude that the barrels do not appear to be shooting to different points of aim, although more shots are needed to make that conclusion definite. In other words the gun appears to be regulated.

If you want a definitive characterization of these guns, call Holland & Holland in London. They have seen them all and they hold them in very high regard.


"Surely a man of MacD's expertise and experience has several persons affiliated with that firm in his rolodex"?

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Man you are as dence as a box of rocks, and you insult the inteligence of everyone here by trying to call into question the expertese of anyone who has even a passing interest in double rifles, considering what you seem to accept as "REGULATED" in a double rifle!

Not that it is any of your business, but I am 68 yrs old, and have been owning, building, and shooting double rifles since the age of 20 and my worse effort would out shoot that thing hands down. You may own a big store that sells lots of bigbore rifles, but that only means you have some customers that care nothing about quality, if the rifle you are promoting is an example of the way they shoot! Price, my fine knowledgable friend, is only an indication of wasted money in this case.One can engrave a piece of iron water pipe, but it doesn't make it anythig but a fancy water pipe!

That thing is not regulated, and all the hoop-la you spout will not regulate it, or make it worth $150K The builder of this monstrocity, wasted a large amount of machining, if those are the best that can be expected from that thing with a champion shooter shooting it!

As Tom Horn was fond of saying, "that is my last word on this matter!"

My seven pound Ithaca Crass SxS 12 ga will do
"groups" as good as that if I use the right buckshot load.....

Using the reloading data from "Accurate Reloading's" data base and the recoil calculator
from Hunt America Recoil Calculator

The recoil for a 338 Winchester Mag in an 8 lb rifle firing a 215 grain bullet at 2965 ft/sec with 81.5 grains of powder is 44 ft/lbs of free recoil.
The recoil for the 577 T Rex in a 25 lb. gun firing a 750 grain bullet at 2581 ft/sec with 186 grains of powder is 97 ft/lbs of free recoil.

quote:

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Originally posted by foxfire:
Using the reloading data from "Accurate Reloading's" data base and the recoil calculator
from http://huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

The recoil for a 338 Winchester Mag in an 8 lb rifle firing a 215 grain bullet at 2965 ft/sec with 81.5 grains of powder is 44 ft/lbs of free recoil.
The recoil for the 577 T Rex in a 25 lb. gun firing a 750 grain bullet at 2581 ft/sec with 186 grains of powder is 97 ft/lbs of free recoil.

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He's getting 750m/s, that works out to 2950 ft/sec I believe. The guns weighs about 24lb.

quote:

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Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:

quote:

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Originally posted by MacD37:

Well regulated????????? Those are not groups, they are patterns! $150,000

You're right about one thing, Mr. Gould, it is uneque,and is not for the treditionalist, or even someone who wants a double rifle that is regulated, because that one is certainly not!


..............

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_Again you deminstrate your "EXPERTISE"!_ Regulation is getting the groups from both barrels centered on the same point at a given distance for a given shooter. You need at least 3 shots from each bbl to draw any firm conclusions about regulation, if not 5 from each. Regulation (for a given load and 'hold') is purely determined by the construction of the gun. Group size is an entirely different matter, and is determined by the skill of the shooter (in this case a very skilled shooter), the precision of the sights (in this case open express sights), the weather (not much of a factor with this heavy a caliber), and the ammunition (in this case nothing special done).

From these diagrams, since they are composite left/right diagrams, I think one can only conclude that the barrels do not appear to be shooting to different points of aim, although more shots are needed to make that conclusion definite. In other words the gun appears to be regulated.

If you want a definitive characterization of these guns, call Holland & Holland in London. They have seen them all and they hold them in very high regard.


"Surely a man of MacD's expertise and experience has several persons affiliated with that firm in his rolodex"?

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Man you are as dence as a box of rocks, and you insult the inteligence of everyone here by trying to call into question the expertese of anyone who has even a passing interest in double rifles, considering what you seem to accept as "REGULATED" in a double rifle!

Not that it is any of your business, but I am 68 yrs old, and have been owning, building, and shooting double rifles since the age of 20 and my worse effort would out shoot that thing hands down. You may own a big store that sells lots of bigbore rifles, but that only means you have some customers that care nothing about quality, if the rifle you are promoting is an example of the way they shoot! Price, my fine knowledgable friend, is only an indication of wasted money in this case.One can engrave a piece of iron water pipe, but it doesn't make it anythig but a fancy water pipe!

That thing is not regulated, and all the hoop-la you spout will not regulate it, or make it worth $150K The builder of this monstrocity, wasted a large amount of machining, if those are the best that can be expected from that thing with a champion shooter shooting it!

As Tom Horn was fond of saying, _"that is my last word on this matter!"_

---

]

You read about as well as you spell. I said the group size was not great, but there don't appear to be TWO groups, which is what one would get if the gun were not REGULATED. You are confusing accuracy with regulation.



Fact is three moa is about the best one can get with a moa-capable bolt rifle using open (express) sights. (There was a time, not too long ago, when 3moa was deemed acceptable huntin accuracy with a SCOPED bolt rifle). You just can hold any better than that. Most big bores are two moa rifles at best. So four moa is about par for a BOLT rifle with express sights. Add a second barrel that is PERFECTLY regulated and you still have four moa. So five MOA with a heavy double is a very well regulated double. The second bore is within one moa of the first.

Yes sir, that is my definition of acceptable accuracy from a heavy double shot with express sights. If you can consistently do better than that, how come I don't read about your rifles in any reputable journals?

Now to the field. You are not going to shoot the kind of game these big doubles were built to handle at any kind of extended range. Well within 50 yards is the norm. 5 moa translates to 2.5 inches at that distance. Again, sir, good enough.

Now having said that, if you were to tinker with the ammo for these guns, you would probably do better. But why bother? They are acceptable for their purpose.

I don't expect a response. I think part of the problem here is that the gentleman is FRENCH, and there are one or two members of this forum who dislike the FRENCH, possibly because they declined to get into the monstrously expensive mess that we now find ourselves in in Iraq.

quote:

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Originally posted by congomike:
My seven pound Ithaca Crass SxS 12 ga will do
"groups" as good as that if I use the right buckshot load.....

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That's an inane and puerile comment.

quote:

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One can engrave a piece of iron water pipe, but it doesn't make it anythig but a fancy water pipe!

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Here's your waterpipe: (I'll rotate the pictures every so often).

quote:

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Actually sir, you are not only a self-appointed expert with a sanctimonious attitude, but you are also wrong, at least in this case.

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Tell me Mr. Gould,who made the first PERSONAL ATTACK, in this string? Wasn't it the first sentence in you post to me above?

I think you can't stand anyone disagreeing with your opinions, then resort to personal attacks in anger, even to the point of commenting on my spelling, an internet No No. However, I seem to have spelled well enough to get accross what I think of your cannon. The comment above would have done as well if you had said, ....."Actually sir,IMO, you are wrong, at least in this case!" and explain why!............instead you had to resort to getting personal, with sarchasm!

I submit your opinion is no more valid that mine, or any other poster's here, no matter how I or they spell! We simply disagree. Now if that isn't good enough for you, then you will simply have to live with the disappointment.

IMO. your sig line says volumes about your high opinion of yourself. No body here is impressed by your credentials!

Since one of your afflictions seems, to me, to be Delusions of Grandeur, on top of uncontrolable anger, all I can say to that is, others seldom see us as we see ourselves, Mr. Gould.

The Rifle is not well regulated,IMO, and the builder being French has nothing to do with it, My wife of 43 years is French. The fact is, IMO, your rifle is an over priced piece of railroad iron, with decoration! You seem to think otherwise,and that is OK with me! Why isn't my opinion respected as well, as simply being different, from yours?

Good Day Mr. Gould!

quote:

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:

I don't expect a response. I think part of the problem here is that the gentleman is FRENCH, and there are one or two members of this forum who dislike the FRENCH, possibly because they declined to get into the monstrously expensive mess that we now find ourselves in in Iraq.

---

Did Johnnie Cochran help you draft this response?

quote:

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He's getting 750m/s, that works out to 2950 ft/sec I believe. The guns weighs about 24lb.

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That would be 132 ft/lbs of recoil. ouch

updated for brevity

quote:

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Fact is three moa is about the best one can get with a moa-capable bolt rifle using open (express) sights.

Yes sir, that is my definition of acceptable accuracy from a heavy double shot with express sights.

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ah, bullshit

Russ, partner, a good trick when one finds oneself in a hole is to DROP THE SHOVEL

I know AT LEAST eight fellas that can shoot better than 3.5 MOA, that the WHIMP of the group shoots a 458 win mag... and that's my 18 yearold son. I certainly can, especially for publicity targets


BTW, my 500$ pedersoli shoots better... even my stoeger coach gun shoots slugs better....

jeffe

Some Beautiful & Incredible Double Rifles

Lovely to shoot, hard hitting and pleasant to carry.




Holland & Holland .500/.465 - only GBP77,000



Westley Richards .577 NE - only $45,000 ! A steal !!!

and something pretty from France.

Jeff,

Now it's my turn to say BS. There is no way a double with express sights will shoot moa or even two moa at 100 yards (except perhaps a fluke with only two or, if you kept at it for a long time, four shots). No way.

I am not talking about scoped rifles here. Open V sights with big beads suitable for dangerous game work.

Listen up. I represented the South African Army in competition with service rifle, palma match rifle, 22 rifle, and 9mm pistol; and the Free State Provincial team with service rifle. I know what a rifle with the BEST peep sights, with GOOD peep sights, and with BATTLE sights is capable of. You struggle to get moa with the BEST TARGET PEEP sights in a 7.62 PALMA MATCH rifle. Very happy with 2.5 moa with the FN FAL service rifle in the same caliber with good peep sights, 2moa best with a tinkered rifle. So don't tell me you can get one or two moa with a heavy recoiling double with express sights that recoils up and to the side, and is sensitive to how you hold the dang thing. Go tell that to some neophyte who has had too many Fosters and has never heard of a double rifle.

Look at p651 of Greener's book. He was a consummate self-promoter (today would be called a bullshitter) and his exemplary target, shot with a 450 Express, shows a vertical spread of about 4" for ten shots at 100 yards. On p 646, he shows 147 hits from an 8 bore in 12 inches at 110 yards.

As for my business practices, I don't fabricate facts to sell guns. I just tell it like it is. Never had a problem that way. I wouldn't buy a double rifle from a man who claimed it was a moa rifle. Because I wouldn't know whether anything he said was true.

And the FRENCH thing...I might be off target here, but it's the only explanation I can come up with (well apart from the big bore equivalent of penis envy) for the irrational postings (ramblings) of certain members of this forum.

You guys can put those little jumping things all over the place, doesn't change the facts.

Russ

Here is a target from my Wilkes, I think you need to rethink your postion on accuracy for Doubles.

As to the rifles you listed I think they are very interesting. Unique to be sure and one man's creative adventure.

I do think that to Buffalo in the first rifle is winking at me though.