How about this, would it be a goody?

Modified BRNO 602, Shilen barrel, action and barrel glass bedded. New RCBS dies, 30 projectiles and ammo as shown. Likely fewer than 20 shots down barrel. Estate sale with auction start price NZ$3,000. Located in my area.

Don't know the exchange rate / Euro equivalent, but I'd jump (if you feel froggy.) Backwards safety is a no-go for me. I put an Ed Lapour on my ZKK 602.

About $2100 US and $2700 Australian.

If all is well with the gun such as feeding a great buy and top calibre. Brass is easy enough as it is based on 416 Rigby Improved necked to 458.

I would definitely want feeding checked as I don't think the 602 was ever in 416 Rigby. By that I mean a CZ in 450 Rigby conversion could have and probably would have started life as a 416 Rigby.

I've made a couple 602s with 416/416-based rounds - as the action is more or less identical to a cz550 (the bottom metal, trigger, and bolt construction as different, but the striped action is really really really close) it should work -- as CZ offers this as a factory round

my honest feedback? for 2kUSD, its a starting point -- there's no visible crossbolts, and the rear sight is an add on, not the integral popup -- which leads me to assume there's other "not built by a big bore gunsmith" issues that will need to be resolved -- and having split a couple 602 stocks, bedding and bolting, along with an axial pin in the wrist, would be requirements.

looks like a decent piece of walnut, pad looks like an okay installation .. bolt handle is stock, polish looks even, though a little bright for my tastes

i would worry first about feeding, then before shooting, it would be bedded and bolted, with making certain that the rear tang has clearance ..

What is very important is the condition the barrel is in and how it shoots.I never owned a Shilen so I can't comment on it as a big bore barrel .Does it really have 20rds through it? How can you tell? I have had barrels stop shooting and you couldn't observe any significant signs of erosion.If you need a new barrel right from the start with sights and all, then it will end up costing you double that or more not to mention a long wait.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
What is very important is the condition the barrel is in and how it shoots.I never owned a Shilen so I can't comment on it as a big bore barrel .Does it really have 20rds through it? How can you tell.I have had barrels stop shooting and you couldn't observe any significant signs of erosion.If you need a new barrel right from the start with sights and all, then it will end up costing you double that or more not to mention a long wait.

Don't agree. Feeding is the one to check. Of fuckups with rifles fixing feeding can be hardest to get fixed and especially in Australia and I suspect double in New Zealand and you can multiply that by 3 for a Rigby/378 case based calibre and because so few are made.

As to Shilen barrels they are fine and we are not taking about a bench rifle or accuracy built rifle.

One potential issue I would have with that rifle and especially in Australia or New Zealand is there are a lot of "big bangers" made on the cheap just as a way to have one and the CZ/BRNO is the common starting point.

But if feeding is good then a good deal. In Australia and New Zealand a Mark V Safari or even Deluxe in 460 will cost heaps and heaps more as will a top gunsmith rifle.

With the stock shaped the way it is, it'll kick the snot out of you.

If the barrel needs to be replaced you might need to start feeding work all over again.
Another good point that was raised is the stock fit or shape.If you have not shot with this stock there is no way of telling that it will not beat you up.If it does then you can increase the LOP- that might help.

That barrel looks light to me.

The rifle is being sold by a gunsmith who makes custom firearms. The deceased owner made the stock but the gunsmith does not know who did the metal work. I do not know if the rifle comes from around our area but I'm assuming the gunsmith may know of the deceased owner and he estimates the gun has fired less than 20 rounds. He states if he had to build this rifle today it would be NZ$8-$10k to do so.

I am not looking to buy, it is not going to surpass my Type A 404 Jeffery, just wondered what others thought especially of the 450 Rigby cartridge?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
What is very important is the condition the barrel is in and how it shoots.I never owned a Shilen so I can't comment on it as a big bore barrel .Does it really have 20rds through it? How can you tell? I have had barrels stop shooting and you couldn't observe any significant signs of erosion.If you need a new barrel right from the start with sights and all, then it will end up costing you double that or more not to mention a long wait.

george, sometimes i think you an idiot

Just handled the gun this morning, very nice with action polished and deep blued, away from the usual Brno bead blasted finish. The integral scope ring dovetails have been ground/milled off the action and a good quality adjustable peep sight screwed to the rear bridge (I've seen these peep sights before, can't think of the maker at the moment).

Inner action, bolt and magazine follower all very highly polished so a super smooth unit, one I would image that feeds perfectly judging by the workmanship gone into smoothing the action. The Brnos were usually quite stiff and rough feeders from the factory. Trigger was superb.

The length of pull a bit short for me being used to the Mauser Type A which is quite long, but the owner who was a local from round my area was a shortish guy. Despite length of pull the rifle came to shoulder with sights aligning perfectly for me. First of the three leaves on the safari sight has been notched but the other two left un-notched.

Suspected to have a recoil reducer of some sort under the recoil pad as when the fully glassed barreled action was removed the stock was quite butt heavy. Don't know what the total package weighed but had a comfortable heft to it, felt like about 9.5-10lb.

It has had one trip to Africa and taken cape buffalo.

Did not sell at auction which closed this morning, not too many elephants or buffs in the vege garden around this neck of the woods, but a few guys are apparently looking to buy it as a syndicate just for some fun.

Depends on who is shooting the rifle and how its used as to recoil, I own a number of low comb guns for iron sight use and in many cases some drop at the comb and heel as many Hollands and WRs are, seem to take part of the recoil up and part of it back, A straight comb is worthless on a iron sighted rifle or a rifle to be used with both irons and scope such as a African rifle. A straight comb to me comes straight back as its designed to do and kicks the crap out of you...Two schools of thought.

That's an interesting thought, Ray. I have never been too bothered by recoil at the shoulder but I hate getting whacked in the cheek bone, which is what seems to happen when there is a low comb and excessive drop at heel. The Weatherby-style Monte Carlo on my Sako Finnbear may not be fashionable but the comb never hits me in the cheek.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Depends on who is shooting the rifle and how its used as to recoil, I own a number of low comb guns for iron sight use and in many cases some drop at the comb and heel as many Hollands and WRs are, seem to take part of the recoil up and part of it back, A straight comb is worthless on a iron sighted rifle or a rifle to be used with both irons and scope such as a African rifle. A straight comb to me comes straight back as its designed to do and kicks the crap out of you...Two schools of thought.

Ray,

It is simple physics that the lower the centre of the butt is below the bore then the less rearward force will occur.

Personally, apart from lower recoil I also find the stock with a lot of drop, like H&H and Wby, simply more comfortable and come to the shoulder much better. With real straight stocks I find if I snap the rifle to the shoulder the butt lands too high on my shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
... With real straight stocks I find if I snap the rifle to the shoulder the butt lands too high on my shoulder.

That's interesting, too. About 30 years ago a sambar-hunting guru down here was writing a review of the new Sako (375H&H) with synthetic stock, and I was taking the pictures.

The stock shape was the 'new' classic style, very straight but with no Monte Carlo and when my mate threw up the rifle for a pic, about 40mm of heel showed above his shoulder without his realising.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
... With real straight stocks I find if I snap the rifle to the shoulder the butt lands too high on my shoulder.

That's interesting, too. About 30 years ago a sambar-hunting guru down here was writing a review of the new Sako (375H&H) with synthetic stock, and I was taking the pictures.

The stock shape was the 'new' classic style, very straight but with no Monte Carlo and when my mate threw up the rifle for a pic, about 40mm of heel showed above his shoulder without his realising.

If you watch hunting videos or tv shows you see that pretty often.

It is amazing on this forum how people are full of praise for the English stock but think Weatherby is fucked. Put a cheek piece and angled forend tip on the English stock and you will have a Mark V stock.

Before we could get all the different plastic/fibreglass stock in Austalia we had a maker of high grade stocks and they offered two styles one of which was basically a copy of the Mark V. That was the stock they recommended for a big kicking rifle.