I am considering another 45-70. The choices are either the Marlin guide rifle with the 18 1/2 barrel or there standard rifle with a 22 inch barrel. How much velocity will be lost with the shorter barrel? I do handload.

I went with the shorter barrel,just because I liked the look. P.S 45-70 seems to be a bad word on this forum.

45/70 45/70 45/70 hell i'll say it 100 times i love this caliber i think this and the 30/06 are two of the best Probibly one of the best close range Deer Black Bear anmd moose calibers out there. I like the 22" barrel myself

Snowwolfe,

You shouldn't lose all that much velocity, there is only 3 1/2" difference in barrel length, and the .45-70 is not a high-velocity round. Muzzle blast might become objectionable, though.

George

Compared to a lot of stuff talked about here, the 45-70 is sort of stubby; though being a lover of the cartridge myself, I prefer to say "efficient".

My own little maxim for such things is "stubby barrel for stubby cartridge": the barrel on my 45 Colt Trapper must be about 16 1/2" and it is super handy. That said, neither barrel is terribly long, though I am a carbine man, i like the short barrels, though in my Ruger #3, it really barks with full-on loads.

quote:

Originally posted by 45LCshooter:
Compared to a lot of stuff talked about here, the 45-70 is sort of stubby; though being a lover of the cartridge myself, I prefer to say "efficient".

My own little maxim for such things is "stubby barrel for stubby cartridge": the barrel on my 45 Colt Trapper must be about 16 1/2" and it is super handy. That said, neither barrel is terribly long, though I am a carbine man, i like the short barrels, though in my Ruger #3, it really barks with full-on loads.

45LCshooter, the 45-70 works fine with short barrels! I have an old 1895 Marlin streight stock, with the old ballard rifleing, that I had my smith cut the barrel back to 16 1/4" and extend the mag tube to the muzzle like the old "TRAPPER" rifles! I use this on a sling over my shoulder while fishing in Alaska, for some protection for the large bears who share the fishing with you! The loads I carry in this rifle are fullhouse Ruger No1 loads with 400 gr bullets! The rifle wouldn't take a steady diet of these loads, but for what I use it for, it will do the job at hand! Sure beats hell out of bear pepper spray,or a shotgun!

Your Ruger No3, and the Ruger No1 chambered for 45-70 are both fitted with 22" barrels, and will stand as hot a load as YOU can stand to shoot from the shoulder.

Joeybones 45-70 is not a bad word here! In fact it is one of the all time favorite rounds for North American hunting by big bore inthusiasts! The problem is, many 45-70 fans think the cartridge is magic, and that it will knock the moon out of the sky, or severly retard the spin of the Earth if fired toward the West.

As long as one doesn't make claims for the cartridge that was designed for the purpose of killing MEN, for general use on truley LARGE, DANGEROUS GAME, there will be no rebuttal! The things it was not designed to do is, take on things like Cape Buffalo. Contrary to popular belief, the 45-70 was not a buffalo (American Bisen) cartridge. The buffalo hunting days were well over before the old military round was introduced in 1878. It wasn't available to the civilian population for another 5 or 6 yrs and buffalo hunting was no more by then.

IMO, it will handle anything on the North American contnant, as long as one understands it limitations. I consider it margenal on the Big Brown Bears of Alaska, with anything less than MAX loads with quality 400 gr bullets, or larger, that make at least 2000 fps, and with perfect bullet placement.

I have several rifles chambered for 45-70, and love them all! I, however, know what it will do, and what it is lacking for, and use it accordingly!

MAC, I agree with you absolutely 100% on all counts but one...

....shooting a hot loaded 45/70 to the West will shorten the days. You have to shoot it East to slow the rotation of the earth.

Thanks for pointing out the "Buffalo Rifle" misconception. Its one of my pet peeves and does get bandied about far to often.

But I too love my 45/70.

Cheers,
Canuck

I've found, depending on the load, the difference is about 20 fps per inch of barrel.

quote:

for the cartridge that was designed for the purpose of killing MEN

Actually, the military developers of the 45-70 were more concerned that it kill or down horses at long range than whether or not it could kill a man; they knew it could do that. Also, the first PRODUCTION of the 45-70 was in 1873 but it predated that during its development for the military.

It is true that during the period most of the bison were shot the 45-70 was not around. In the late 1860s railroads began to advertise sightseeing trips and bison hunts to encourage rail passengers. One such trip included a group of 30 women and 250 men armed with 75-80 guns.

Bison hunts continued throughout the western United States until the mid-1880s. In 1882, Montana and the Dakotas shipped 200,000 hides east. The next year, 1883, the Dakota Territory passed a law protecting the bison, because they had virtually disappeared. Only 300 hides were shipped in 1884. So, the 45-70 was indeed used during the latter part of the bison's near demise as by 1879 Springfield Trapdoors were available to the general public.

I guess I'd have to disagree about the .45/70 not being used to kill many Buffalo. It might be true it didn't kill the most, but from my reading the Army was told to sell .45/70 cartridges, or even give them away, to any hunter that wanted them. The feeling being that if you killed off the Indians commissary you would force him onto the reservations. This is one of the reasons there are so many Sharps 74's and Rem. RB's from that era in that caliber.

Actually the one single caliber that probably killed the most Buffalo was the .50/70. The most famous gun shooting this was Buffalo Bill's "Lucretia Borgia" while he was supplying meat for the railroads. To the best of my knowledge the only photo showing actual Buffalo hunters skinning a Buffalo shows a .50/70 Carbine propped up against the carcass.

PETE

MacD37- I own a dated and documented 1873 45/70. Prototypes and 50/70 versions were in use by the army much earlier than that. They were used to take a considerable number of Bison. There are reputable accounts that the venerable Sharps were actually not used as frequently as imagined. Remington RB's in 50/70 probably were the predominant weapon used. The 45-100 and 45-110 came out quite late in the game and probably were not used much.
I too agree the 45-70 is a good deer/bear or other small varmint round but it's no African Buff cartridge.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Snowwolfe,

You shouldn't lose all that much velocity, there is only 3 1/2" difference in barrel length, and the .45-70 is not a high-velocity round. Muzzle blast might become objectionable, though.

George

Muzzle blast might become objectionable, though. That is putting it mildly. Lawdog

Ill put my two cents in on this one. First of all barrel length in any caliber means velocity lost or gained.The 45-70 is a fine cartridge when loaded up its potential in modern guns. Going from 18 1/2 inhes to 22 inches of barrel length might help the rifle burn all of the powder charge and increase velocity. On another matter that effects all of us, a .405 grn. at 2000 f.p.s. in an 8 lb. gun has between 56 and 60 foot pounds of recoil.That is very close to some wonderfull freinds of mine like the .470,450-500-3 1/4,416 Rigby and many other rounds that were designed for this sort of party. Recoil has its effect on everyone,some it doesnt bother as much. To others it will devistate your ability to put the right bullet in the right place when the time arises.Keep your loads wihin your own recoil comfort zone.I have seen big men completey ratteled by recoil and blew the shot they have spent a tidy sum on only to wound the game animal and put someone else in harms way, because they had to follow it and put it down.Hope this helps you out. Charlie

Mac,

Gotta go with Rob on this one, The 45-70 was around in 1873. It was used to kill bison with too. Just like 577-450 Martini Henry's were used to kill every kinda four legged critter in Africa, at one time.

I will agree with you that there are FAR better tools available today, however.

I would opt for the 22" barrel by the way.

ASS_CLOWN

Oops... funny, i never measured the barrel, single shot action makes it seem shorter than it is. No complaint about strength of action on the #3 or power of the cartridge here though I tend to shoot low with heavy loads; but that is a stock/shooter issue, not barrel....

I have a 22" marlin and I really like that length but I would also like a guide gun as well !!

l'll answer this in a pragmatic way...

unless marlin has deleted the whistle... er muzzle brake on the 18.5" barrel, you don't have a choice on the 22.

Someone on here has a neato 45/70 with an octagon barrel, that weighs about 6#, but i keep forgeting to ask to shoot it!!!

my 45/70 is the handirifle... i htink it's a 20" barrel.. might be too short


jeffe

Snowwolfe...
I've been in the process of making the same choices for a bit now. The longer rifle has won out, as it definitely will not have the report and, for me, it fits and balances better. At the ranges where the 45-70 is most often ( and most sensibly ) used a little velocity loss isn't going to make a bit of difference. The 45-70 made its reputation at low velocities and this can easily be duplicated in any barrel length by a handloader.

Now that I have decided on the Marlin rifle along comes an opportuntiy to get an 1886. Will these decisions never end ?

Just to make sure that the history of buffalo hunting is correct let me make the following statements. First There were two great herds of Buffalo in the US. The southern and Northern herds. The southern herd was the largest and was systematically exterminated from 1874-1878. The transcontinental railroad made market and hide hunting possible and very profitable. The Northern Herd took till 1984 to be decimated. Scattered Serious Buffalo hunting ended approx. 1888. The 45/70 springfield, 50/70 springfield and Remington Rolling Blocks in various calibers including 45/70 along with Sharps 50/70 conversions and Sharps old reliables 44-77,45/60's 45-90,and even a few 45-100's and 110'a were highly utilized by the Buffalo hunters. Thus, many model 1873 springfield 45/70's and model 1878's were probably used and were clearly damn effective. Wherever, the lore started that the 45/70 was not used on Buffalo it's time that it died. It just ain't so. Ray Atkinson was there, He KNOWS-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

Someone on here has a neato 45/70 with an octagon barrel, that weighs about 6#, but i keep forgeting to ask to shoot it!!!

jeffe

Next time, Jeffe.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
l'll answer this in a pragmatic way...

unless marlin has deleted the whistle... er muzzle brake on the 18.5" barrel, you don't have a choice on the 22.

Someone on here has a neato 45/70 with an octagon barrel, that weighs about 6#, but i keep forgeting to ask to shoot it!!!

my 45/70 is the handirifle... i htink it's a 20" barrel.. might be too short


jeffe

Marlin dropped the ported barrel from the Guide Gun. In fact they were offering a barrel replacement for those that wanted it a while back. Lawdog