Talley Ho!
Panache a plenty there!
What velocity are you getting with those 2,000 grain hammers?

You are correct there almost had a chance to shoot one in Australia.

That said I'd go with .416 Rigby and .505 Gibbs due to literature I've read. For Africa of course. It's all about marketing

For doubles they all have a lot of Panache!

Boom, I shoot them with ~10 dram equivalent smokeless loads at a bit over 1100fps for comfort. I've shot them up to 16 dram equivalents at 1500fps and won't ever again.
The gun was made for conicals and 14 drams, with an "emergency load" (however that was supposed to work?) of 16 drams. With black powder the 4 7/8 ounce conicals (2133gn) top out around 1350.

The 1500gn roundballs with 100 grains of Blue Dot run about 1525fps and are stiff but easily shootable by anyone who can handle a 375 or 458. I let people who seem to know what they are doing with a "big" gun try it out at the range all the time and no one's dropped it yet! I also always have a few 700fps rounds on hand in case someone really wants to shoot it but isn't familiar with boomers. Everyone like making big holes in targets.

The max I've shot the balls at was a bit over 1700 and it was not pleasant. Black powder is a whole another story of pain and misery and has vastly more recoil for the same velocity. 10 drams of black feels much worse than a smokeless "14 dram" load. I love BP and used to shoot it exclusively but in recent year better judgement prevailed and I now only shoot smokeless.

For general all around panache, it has to be the 375 H&H Flanged Magnum.

Provided it is the right rifle then the 505 Gibbs.

378 Weatherby.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
Provided it is the right rifle then the 505 Gibbs.

378 Weatherby.

Mike, I've always thought the 378W and 220 Swift dripped with style too. Two no compromise cartridges at the top of their class.

Perhaps panache can come as much from the name as the cartridge.

The .19 Calhoon Hornet, 218 Mashburn Bee, .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer, .375/.303 Westley Richards Accelerated Express, Hollands' .500/.465 Nitro Express or the 577 Tyrannosaur could possibly be contenders.

Maybe its the way the numbers roll off your tongue. Does Two-seventy-five Rigby trump seven-by-fifty-seven?

Am I right in thinking the famous American service cartridge should be referred to as the Thirty-ought-six?

Even Forty-four-forty has a ring far beyond its power.

505 gibbs. Safari classic, 50cal, needs largest bolt actions, tantalised folks for decades before brass and bullets became available again, stoked hot it still outruns most modern bigbores, which is why they chose it to base chey-tac sniper cartridges.


I see it sort of like an older English gent who steps out of his Rolls Royce puffing an ebony pipe, takes his impeccable tweed jacket off to display a Jim Corbett physique, thrashes allcomers half his age without spilling any ash, tips his hats to the ladies and zooms off again at 110 miles an hour to get in a spot of Polo before being fashionably late for a dinner appointment with HM the Queen .

Obviously I am playing it down to make it fair on the other suggestions above

My humble opinion -

Bolt rifle - 416 Rigby with the 404 Jeffery a close second.

Double rifles - pick any from 450/400, 450NE, 465H&H, 470NE, 500NE, 577NE, 600NE and a few in between

Bolt 404 Jeffrey,Double 500 Nitro Express

For me it is the 7x57, 300 H&H, 35 Whelen, 400 H&H.

I can't believe every single one of you got it wrong. It is obviously the 10.75x68! I expected more out of this crowd.

OK, I'll play.
It is a tie for flanged cartridge: .450 S. Rigby and .400 S. Jeffery, aka The .450 NE and the .450/.400 NE 3-Inch respectively.

The .400 S. Jeffery was actually shootin' and tootin' in the form of a Farquharson single shot before the .450 S. Rigby in the form of a double rifle.
They both evolved in 1897-1898.
Rigby may have started work on his first, in 1889, but Jeffery beat him to the finish line in that arms race.
They decided to call themselves "Nitro Express" cartridges after all the others that came after them took up the moniker,
including Jeffery's .600 NE,
the ultimate no-joke Nitro Express,
which of course is possessed of infinitely more panache than the .700 NE joke.
Any amount of panache divided by zero is infinity.

No contest, the pioneers get highest scores for panache.

So, for magazine repeater, the panache title goes to the .404 Rimless Nitro Express aka .404 Jeffery.
It sprang from the .400 S. Jeffery with the rim turned down into an extractor groove.

It evolved over 1904-1905, definitely shootin' and tootin' by 1905.
No other fully capable DGR magazine repeater existed before it, and none that came after it can claim any superiority to it,
other than the .458 Winchester Magnum which has no panache at all.
The mere thought of the .458 WIN makes those with feathered plumes on their pith helmets clinch their pinky fingers into fists.

Rip ...

For me, it’s the 404 Jeffery.

Being just a little biased....the .375 AI! You have both, the legendary.375 and an Ackley Improved (a legend in it’s own right)....combined.

A practical, “do it all” cartridge,useful for small game, capable of taking large dangerous game “up close and personal” and shoots flat enough to be very effective at well beyond 500 yards. Couple all of that with readily accessible brass, or “in a pinch”....you can shoot factory .375 H&H.

It just “don’t get no better than that”! memtb

I have 2 375s and been toying with rechambering to weatherby or AI or something on one. What is the advantage of the AI is it the oldest? If it has that much panache I may need one

quote:

Originally posted by memtb:
Being just a little biased....the .375 AI! You have both, the legendary.375 and an Ackley Improved (a legend in it’s own right)....combined.

A practical, “do it all” cartridge,useful for small game, capable of taking large dangerous game “up close and personal” and shoots flat enough to be very effective at well beyond 500 yards. Couple all of that with readily accessible brass, or “in a pinch”....you can shoot factory .375 H&H.

It just “don’t get no better than that”! memtb

Thank You! I love my .375 Ackley, Panache Galore!!! As soon as I get my stock bedded for my new 30-06 Ackley, we can include that one also I need to hurry because my deer hunt is only a couple weeks away!

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:
505 gibbs. Safari classic, 50cal, needs largest bolt actions, tantalised folks for decades before brass and bullets became available again, stoked hot it still outruns most modern bigbores, which is why they chose it to base chey-tac sniper cartridges.


I see it sort of like an older English gent who steps out of his Rolls Royce puffing an ebony pipe, takes his impeccable tweed jacket off to display a Jim Corbett physique, thrashes allcomers half his age without spilling any ash, tips his hats to the ladies and zooms off again at 110 miles an hour to get in a spot of Polo before being fashionably late for a dinner appointment with HM the Queen .

Obviously I am playing it down to make it fair on the other suggestions above

I think he'd be driving a Bentley...

If we are talking panache at the Norfolk Hotel then 100% correct on the 505Gibbs
In a double, 577NE

Not meaning to be a kill joy,but is panache the word that you want?
I checked the definition of "panache" in three dictionaries and none of the definitions applied to an inanimate object such as a cartridge, rifle, or hunting boot. ???

Who was it that said "words mean things" ?
Oh yes, that was Rush Limbaugh .

"The meaning of a word is it's use in the language"

Ludwig Wittgenstein

a grand or flamboyant manner; verve; style; flair:

There you have it!
Style and flair!
Do you have it boy?!

A 378 Wby would be a pimp wearing a feather in his hat on safari. A 577 NE would be a pith helmet with feathers. Both usages I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Not meaning to be a kill joy,but is panache the word that you want?
I checked the definition of "panache" in three dictionaries and none of the definitions applied to an inanimate object such as a cartridge, rifle, or hunting boot. ???

Who was it that said "words mean things" ?
Oh yes, that was Rush Limbaugh .

Well if we're comparing guns to hats we may as well go into the deep end and compare guns to women

Class:







Ugly but works

Well I don't think the girl with the bike is big bore, nor her rifle.

But the bottom one definitely qualifies!

The historical use of Panache was a tuft or plume of feathers, especially as a headdress or on a helmet. I just combined both usages

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
I have 2 375s and been toying with rechambering to weatherby or AI or something on one. What is the advantage of the AI is it the oldest? If it has that much panache I may need one

I tried (unsuccessfully) to find the birthdate of the .375 AI.....only that it’s been around since the 1940’s or early 1950’s. The .375 Weatherby, was developed in 1944.

I can tell you this: I was getting over 2900 fps with 270 Barnes TSX’s from a 24” barrel, with very good accuracy. I’ve gotten sub 2” (3 shot) groups at 300 yards...when I do everything right. I’ve recently gone to the Barnes 250 TTSX, for the higher BC, and have settled on 3130 fps (though some say this is pushing very high pressures). In load development, went to 3160 fps....but the groups were starting to open up. I had, for several years, begged Barnes to bring out a 290 to 300 grain TTSX. They finally brought out the 270 LRX, But only after... I developed the 250 TTSX load and had Leupold build my turrets. Can’t justify starting over for the slight BC improvement offered!

With the 270 TSX’s, I was getting 10 reloads...before discarding the brass. Haven’t shot enough of the 250’s to determine brass longevity. However, I’m not seeing any over-pressure indications. The brass, closely resembles that of the 270 loaded cases!

In a 9 pound rifle the rifle will, get your attention when shooting from the bench....but very doable! When hunting, a pleasure to carry and very effective on game. This has been my “only” hunting rifle, since February of 1989. From coyotes to moose...it’s done everything that I could ask! memtb

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Not meaning to be a kill joy,but is panache the word that you want?
I checked the definition of "panache" in three dictionaries and none of the definitions applied to an inanimate object such as a cartridge, rifle, or hunting boot. ???

Who was it that said "words mean things" ?
Oh yes, that was Rush Limbaugh .

“IF”.... it’s your, only, do it all, go-to hunting rifle, that you’ve carried for 30 years....it is “not” an “ inanimate object”! memtb

If I had the money (and lots of it) I would have three pairs.

A blank cheque to Ed Weatherby for a 30/378 and a 378 and

a 300 H&H and 375 H&H from H&H

And two Echols Legends in 300 Wby and 375 Wby

The Echols Legend in 300 Wby would be the main shooting gun.

I guess you fine gentlemen have not heard of the .600 nitro express. Surely if you had, it would be here and none other.
Cal

Please Cal, the 600 was a gimmick even way back in 1906 as it didn’t offer anything the 577NE couldn’t handle in the field under the most severe of circumstances.
Panache was generated by the professionals using the rifles and very few used the 600.

OK, since we have had it explained that a true calibre with panache has to have a plume attached, the answer is not .577 but .177, as shown below:

http://www.sheffieldairrifles....ols-c-3426_3432.html

Perhaps the real world answer to the question would be the choice of calibres for top end custom wood guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

two Echols Legends in 300 Wby and 375 Wby

The Echols Legend in 300 Wby would be the main shooting gun.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
OK, since we have had it explained that a true calibre with panache has to have a plume attached, the answer is not .577 but .177, as shown below:

http://www.sheffieldairrifles....ols-c-3426_3432.html

maybe we can add some panache to the back end of the 577 bullet. Panache on panache!

If I had to hazard an opinion on all this I would go for something like;

416 Rigby in a bolt action. The association with the likes of Selby and Jack O'Conner pretty much created a desire for it that didn't exist prior to them.

500 NE in a double with its use by guys like John Hunter and others. My first Africa book was the Readers Digest kids version of Hunter my folks gave me when I was a kid. I still have the book.

???????? Panache !
Are we awarding the shooter or user or the cartridge ?

When it comes to cartridges in my book it goes to the 404 ! It even has poems and odes singing it's virtues

ALF, Are you sure you’re not thinking of “409” by The Beachboys? memtb

.300 H&H
.375 H&H
.416 Rigby
.505 Gibbs

BH63

Something like this , not exactly but close enough !

It rested between the Ivory
That hung on Grandpa's wall
It's finally checked and yellowed
Like the tusks it helped to fall

It's barrel smooth and polished
From a hundred bearers hands
It reflected the light warmly
Like campfires flickering brands

The stock of English walnut
Chewed and clawed a bit
It still showed a trace of checkering
an a dent where a horn had hit

Stamped on the barrel lightly
Was a name and not much more
A single word "Jeffery"
"Jeffery .404"

If that rifle could only talk
And take us back once again
With grandpa in Africa
A time of Buffalo,Elephants and men

But that day has set it's sun
And the rifle speaks no more
Oh what I'd give for one last time
To hear it's mighty roar

Grandpa's "Jeffery"
His "Jeffery .404"

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
.300 H&H
.375 H&H
.416 Rigby
.505 Gibbs

BH63

I don't feel adequately informed to offer an opinion on the really big bores, but other than that, I think you've got it. I would only add the following:

6.5x54
.275 Rigby
.300 H&H
.375 H&H
.416 Rigby

And just for giggles, the .22 Savage Hi Power, for the rogue tigers.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
.300 H&H
.375 H&H
.416 Rigby
.505 Gibbs

BH63

No doubt at all they are top candidates, maybe the top.