quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by MartinPotts:

And i blew it.. ..Once again


Martin

You only blew it if this is something that you ordinarily could achieve but due to error or neglect, failed to achieve it this time. So unless you are in the habit of buying rifles that cost as much as a new car, I would say you did not blow it at all.

Kind word's ... but from time to time i have been know to .. ? indulge. . is that the right word.. .. Some might say .other wise ..
I know that the folks that really know me ..just shake there head's ...

So i guess if i hadn't spend the 30 K on swaging tooling ..press's etc ...then maybe ..

Its hard to say .....

Bulldog,

I have ordered mine; Deluxe boxlock, .470, but have told Butch I might change to .375 flanged...

...Indecision at this point, esp since I already have a .470.

At any rate, you can't go wrong with Butch, that's for sure.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Bulldog,

I have ordered mine; Deluxe boxlock, .470, but have told Butch I might change to .375 flanged...

...Indecision at this point, esp since I already have a .470.

At any rate, you can't go wrong with Butch, that's for sure.

Jeff

The 375 flanged is very tempting. Is it on a proper sized action or a one size fits all?

Mickey1,

I have recently spoken to Butch about a rifle in either 375 Flanged or 450/400 3". According to my take on Butch's comments, he has gone with a new profile on a somewhat more slender action that allows for a trimmer wrist. I also understand, from the same conversation, that he has gone to a new barrel profile or taper. Toghether these let him build a 375 Flanged at 9lbs and a 450/400 3" at 9 1/2lbs. His website, which doesn't seem to have been updated for awhile, list the older 375 at 9 1/2lbs.

Hope this helps,

JPK

JPK
A scoped 375 flanged or a 9,3x74R would make a great second gun to your 458 Marcel Thys.
PS. Stop talking about changing your 458 to a 450 Nitro.... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Sounds like the 458 is working fine to me.

Jeff,

For what it's worth I think a .375 Flanged and a .470NE would be one of the coolest pairs of rifles on the planet.

Second coolest is a .470NE and a really slick little mauser action in .404Jefferys.

My .404 is in the works as we speak.

quote:

A scoped 375 flanged or a 9,3x74R

For a sec .... i would go the 9.3x74R the recoil and abilaty of that rifle are very good .. and its a great all around rifle ..
its also a hell of a kudo killer.

Lighten up .700 my post was poking fun at you...but if your .700 was the "be all-end all" why did you get rid of it? You seem to be very opinionated about the caliber...problem with the gun? Too heavy, too much recoil, shells too expensive??? All of the above???

sorry about that bwana i get short tempered some times im in the cutting phases of a body building competetion so i get quite irratable.


i sold it for 1 reason and 1 reason only..........i wanted to try something new.

I really like a 9,3x74R double rifle. I used one, scoped, with my 450 No2 on my 2004 Zim hunt. Both will go back in March of 2006.
I have used the 9,3 a lot in the states too. It is a great calibre.

NE 450 No2,

You have read my mind about a companion to my Thys.

I have to chronograph the loads JJ used to get my rifle to shoot (and that I used on my trip). I think that if the velocity is where I think it is, 2090fps, I'll have a hard time changing anything.

FWIW, I have found that I can get the 458's to drop into the chambers, like a proper rimmed round, by trying each round in one chamber, rotating 90* repeating... then trying the other chamber. I did three of these presortings, til all rounds dropped in. About 1/2 of all the ammo that JJ loaded and that I sorted worked fine. The other 1/2 goes into a box marked "practice only"

JPK

JPK
As you know I have handled your 458 when I was at Champlins a while back. Very nice double. A scoped 9,3x74R would be an excellent companion to you big bore. My 9,3 Chapuis has been an excellent hunting rifle. The stock on the Chapuis works good with the iron sights or a scope.

NE 450 No.2,

Thanks for the tip, I will definitely look at the Chapuis before making my decision.

JPK

I can second the Chapuis in 9,3x74R as a terrific general purpose hunting rifle. Mine is similar to NE 450 No2's ... save it is scoped with a 1.5-6 Schmidt & Bender and has a set of 3" 20 gauge bbls with it.

The caliber works great on hogs and whitetails with sturdy enough bullets (I don't like the 270 Speer except on paper). Nosler partitions work very, very well. RWS brass has proven to be superb. (New Norma brass has a weight similar to RWS brass and may be just as well. Time will tell.)

For some reason, the rifle w shotgun barrels works better on pheasant, chukkar and quail for me than any other shotgun I've ever.

The 9,3x74R is a great complement to a .470 NE double. A joy to carry and use.

mstarling
I wish my Chapuis had a set of 20ga bbls.
I would also like to have a set of Cape bbls, one 9,3x74R, and one 20ga.
I really like my Chapuis.

Can you guys tell any difference on game betwixt a .375 H&H and a 9.3 x 74?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Can you guys tell any difference on game betwixt a .375 H&H and a 9.3 x 74?

You mean the 9.3x64 ? right ..

The diffrent's between the two

9.3x64
250 grain bullet
WIN 760 powder
Grains of powder 82.0
Primers CCI 200
Vel -- 2,870
------------------
293 Grain Bullet-TUG
IMR 4350 Powder
Grains of powder 65.0
CCI 200 Primer
Vel-- 2,625

------------------
9.3x74
250 grain bullet
IMR4064 Powder
Grains of powder 58.0 <-MAX Charge
Vel --- MAX LOAD 2410

-------------------

quote:

Originally posted by MartinPotts:


You mean the 9.3x64 ? right ..

No.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by MartinPotts:


You mean the 9.3x64 ? right ..

No.

Then how does the 9.3x74 compare to the 375 H&H
I own a 375 Holland and Holland on a Rem Action and i own two 9.3x64's .One is my fathers old Brno and one is one i had made up on a springfield action . the 74R does not Compare
Is there a diffrents hell yes at longer ranges
400+ yards with factory loads ..I will take the .64 over the 375 H H but not a 74R
Both mine have taken elk at that range ..and thats not really that far but to cut free at elk at 400 with a bullet that max's out a 2400 FPS with a 250 is not my cup of tea and that would be the 9.3x74R

Martin

I'm fairly sure that Martin Potts post did not answer the question as asked. I am interested in the answer to the questin and so I bring this to the top.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I'm fairly sure that Martin Potts post did not answer the question as asked. I am interested in the answer to the questin and so I bring this to the top.

JPK

quote:

Does anyone have any experience/opinions on Searcy Double rifles. I am basically on the verge of putting a deposit down this month and wanted to see what you guys thought of them. I am leaning towards the Deluxe Boxlock in 500 NE. I may go for the 577 but have been told that it is really not necesary for DG in Africa. Also there is a possibility that the recoil will be too heavy for my liking as I have never shot anything larger then a 458 Win. This will also be my first DR. I have posted on Nitroexpress.com and got good feedback, just wanted to check all the resources available to me.

This is the question posted on this forum ..
Or Does JPK want to talk about somthing diffrent ?

Martin

The 375 H&H vs the 9,3x74R.....
If you believe in physics you have to believe that the 375 H&H is "mo better".
It shoots a heavier, bigger diameter bullet, at a higher velocity than the 9,3x74R.
But... I really do not think any animal could tell the difference between the two.
I would buy the one that is in the rifle you like.
I have shot deer, pigs, and turkeys with both, no difference.
When I went to Zim in 2004 I used the 9,3x74R in a double rifle for all of my plains game hunting. It worked perfectly. My longest shot was on a kudu at a little over 300 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
The 375 H&H vs the 9,3x74R.....
If you believe in physics you have to believe that the 375 H&H is "mo better".
It shoots a heavier, bigger diameter bullet, at a higher velocity than the 9,3x74R.
But... I really do not think any animal could tell the difference between the two.
I would buy the one that is in the rifle you like.
I have shot deer, pigs, and turkeys with both, no difference.
When I went to Zim in 2004 I used the 9,3x74R in a double rifle for all of my plains game hunting. It worked perfectly. My longest shot was on a kudu at a little over 300 yards.

Seen now thats a great shoot on a Kudo..
What bullet were you using ...were thay factory round's .. or somthing you bought ..were thay custom bullet's ? ..In a double did you use duo diameter bullet's -Bore rider's/

I just got my sec set of Duo Diameter bore rider swage dies for my hydra swage in 9.3 (.366) It will work great for making heavy bullets and small little plinkers ...

Once again nice shot ..300 yards is nothing to sneeze at ..

Martin

How do you swage a driving band bullet? I am having a hard time imagining how it works. Do you have a pic of the swage die?

Martin
I was using 286 Nosler Partitions on the kudu.
The load was 65 grains of IMR 4831.
In my Chapuis I load the Hawk 285 .035jkt., the Woodleigh 286 SP and the 286 Nosler all hit to the same place to 200 yards in my double. The NP shoots a little flatter at 300.
All confirmed by shooting on paper.
However 300 yards is a stretch for a 9,3x74R, but the Noslers performed great.

Martin Potts,

Are you picking a fight?

500grains asked the question immeadiatly prior to my post. You failed to answer the question in any meaningful way but merely threw some what ifs in your "answer" post. I pointed this out and essentially reasked the question.

Got a problem with that?

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
How do you swage a driving band bullet? I am having a hard time imagining how it works. Do you have a pic of the swage die?

Sorry i gave my little Confrence video cam a try and every time i click the Transfer
Buttom i get an error sign.. I think its becouse besides having it plugged in i also need to have the batter's in the camera and right now i dont have the 4 little AAA batterys
I will post up a picker of the die set ..
For the moment i can decribe them though
Its a 6 Die set . Two of the dies are Core forming dies ones for jacket walls of 0.030 and the other is for jacket walls of 0.050
One of the core dies make a lead core of .254
diameter thats for the 0.050 jacket
The other make a core of .300 diameter thats for the 0.030 jacket's

I should tell you the above is of Dave Corbins
core forming die.. and the one pictured is far smaller then the Hydra Swage die die's

Next die set is the Core Seat die set's
as with the core forming die set there are also two core seating top punchs becouse of diffrent jacket wall thickness

Next is the forming /point forming die
my new one is a .366 P 1/2 R <- R meaning round nose in this case .

The next die is the L die or lead nose point reforming die its use to make sure each bullet has just the same nose one after another it helps if any of the point formed bullet have slight miss shapened noses it it reforms them all alike and is only used after the bullets have been ..Point formed..

The next die is the Duo Diameter Die
Its kind tricky .. to put it in a nut shell
its just a die body thats .366 diameter and half way down drops to .357 diameter the botton knock out punch has the shape of the nose /point on it ..Mine being a Round nose
All it does is take my .336 diameter bullets
and force's them at a point i pick down to .357 diameter . Thats how i make the Duo Diameter Bullet's
I will add some pictures and more details if you still want .. 500 Grains.
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Martin
I was using 286 Nosler Partitions on the kudu.
The load was 65 grains of IMR 4831.
In my Chapuis I load the Hawk 285 .035jkt., the Woodleigh 286 SP and the 286 Nosler all hit to the same place to 200 yards in my double. The NP shoots a little flatter at 300.
All confirmed by shooting on paper.
However 300 yards is a stretch for a 9,3x74R, but the Noslers performed great.

What do you think of the Hawk bullet ?
I still have some of the older vertions of the
Nosler but there not the Partitioned there the ones with the really deap seating cannalure
markings .. i bought out the last of them from Tony Sailer in ? i think about 1984 or 85
By then thay were already way out of date
Thay worked out ok but thay were a little to heavy of a jacket wall for what i was shooting at .
The would mushroom/swell /roll back about 1/4 inch is all on the elk i was shooting .
Thats when i picked up my first set of .366
swage dies for my little hydr/ press
thay were for a flat nose 10% deg streight wall taper and i was using 0.030 jackets .. at longer range thay would still mushroom out really well and up close thay held there own
at about 1/2 the jacket rolling back but still hug togther

And ya i know its hard to beat Noslers .

Thanks for the insite guy

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Martin Potts,

Are you picking a fight?

500grains asked the question immeadiatly prior to my post. You failed to answer the question in any meaningful way but merely threw some what ifs in your "answer" post. I pointed this out and essentially reasked the question.

Got a problem with that?

JPK

LOL i dont need to pick a fight ..

Is there some reason you might need to . ? if not ...fine by me guy .

Martin Potts,

No wasn't trying too; don't need too. What do you say we write it off to a misunderstanding?

JPK

PS: There is enough fighting going on around here without us pitching in!

Martin
I have recovered a few Woodleigh bullets and a few Hawks, only one Nosler Partition, that from a kudu. It had expanded fully with no front lead as most of them do.
Both the Woodleigh and the Noslers shot through Impala from front to reat or from rear to front.
They have plenty of penetration.

I really like the 285 gr Hawk bullet with the .035jkt, for deer sized game. I have also taken several 200 to 275 lb pigs with it. It mushroms to a very large diameter. I have had more drop to the shots with Hawk bullets in my 9,3 and in my 450/400 than with any other bullet.
The Hawk in the 9,3 was going to be my first shot up on leopard.
In the 9,3 I would not use the Hawk with the .035 jkt on game bigger than deer sized, or on side on shots on pigs. It shoots through 250lb to 275 lb [weighed] pigs about 50% of the time.
But it is great for them. When hunting on my deer lease I carry a Hawk in the right bbl with a Woodleigh or Nosler in the left. That way I am ready for a side shot or a going away/raking shot.

N E 450 No2
I kinda like the Hawk bullet myself
the jackets are just pluming tubing but thay seem to work really well .
Thay draw there jackets then form the base then trim them then annel .It been along time since i use any tubing for jackets but Hawk seems to have made that a mute point

It sound like a great idea using one soft and one hard in the barrels .
Thanks for the insite guy

Martin

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Martin Potts,

No wasn't trying too; don't need too. What do you say we write it off to a misunderstanding?

JPK

PS: There is enough fighting going on around here without us pitching in!

I didnt know we were buddy .
sound good to me

Martin

Martin,

If we'd been fighting you'd have known it!

JPK

I hate to jump off the topic of the Searcy Double Rifles but is there something wrong with These ?

The Drilling

Ran into a very old friend earlier in the week who I had not seen for some time. While at his house he showed me a very high grade .577 NE that he had picked up "used" (probably never hunted with and barely fired)from a very rich Texan who had had it custom built and engraved from Searcy. High grade wood, sideplates with full engraving (elephant on the bottom, cape buffalo on the left plate and a rhino on the right plate)..just beautiful and well over $20K new.

He is shooting 750 grain Woodleigh solids with I believe 117 grains of RE15 (?) that was giving a MV over the Chrony (that would blow the skyscrenes off on the second barrel)of 1800 fps with a 40 FPS spread. The rifle liked the load as while it was about 4" low from POA it would overlap the two rounds at 50 yards (if he didn't flinch) from a standing benchrest. The windage was perfect. The PH that he is hunting with next year said that with the same rifle and bullet at 1850 fps he put a 3' rod down the bullet track in an elephants head and the rod didn't reach the bullet..penetration is not lacking. My frind has been up to I believe 123 or 127 grains of RE15 and at 2200 fps recoil is beyound his limit of toleration.

Today he invited me to help with some load development as he needed a spotter to tell him where the first and second rounds landed on the target. When he did his part the rounds overlaped. His last two shots were offhand at 50 yards....2" low from POA and 2" apart.

I was offered to shoot as many rounds as I cared to shoot from the loads that were "development" loads. The first shot at 25 yards hit about 4" low from POA. The recoil was such that I unloaded the gun and had to think about shooting the second...this from a shooter who's primary hunting rifle is the Remington M600 Carbine in .350 Remington Magnum that everone thinks is a big kicker. I have also owned a Ruger #1 in .375 H&H and now a #1 in .405 Winchster that runs 400 grain bullets at 2000 fps...but this .577 gives the word "recoil" a whole new name. The recoil to the shoulder was not noticible...but getting slammed in the cheek because of the slightly low comb was not pleasant.

But I reloaded both barrels and took a dry shot with the right barrel and then touched off the left. Bullet went just under POA which is where the sight is regulated. I declined further rounds not because of pain but I have a hearing implant and after two rounds I was somewhat concerend about breaking something...being deaf again would not have been fun...explaining it to the insurance company even less fun.

As an aside my friend told me he let one of the guys who he shoots skeet with fire the gun...it came out of BOTH hands and was freefalling when caught. He had probably about the same feelings that one would have as their $60K Porche skidded out of control towards a guard rail.

If it were me I would probably choose a .500/.416 or .450/.400....400 grain bullets will do anything I need done..

Bob

butches regualtion load is 125 grains of rel 15 and 5 grains of dacron filler. with a fed 215 magnum primer use that load and only that load no wonder your having accuracy problems.

RJM

What your friend has done is take a perfectly good 577 3" and turned it into a 577 2 3/4"/750.

I have a Hollis like that and it is plenty good enough for anything. I find the recoil about like a 500NE.

To my mind it is the best combination of bullet weight/power/usability that you can get in a Double Rifle.

Sideplates???

700 nitro....no accuracy problems with my friends rifle...all he needs is a slightly taller rear sight or a slightly lower front bead. Off hand his final two rounds, one hit about 1/2" below the center of a 3" orange dot and the other about 2" away from that one at 5 o'clock. Standing off the rest the two rounds touch if he does his part....he would rather hit what he is aming at every round rather than miss too many time with an additional 2-300 fps.

Mickey...may not be real sidelock plates but for the money one can pretend.....

Bob

From my friend with the rifle...


Bob,

I read the thread. The load you fired was 112gr. of Reloader 15. The loads I
fired was 115gr. @ 1800-1835fps. I will be going to 118gr next session. 700
NE statement of Butch regulating at 125gr. of Reloader 15 is not quite
accurate. I spoke with Butch and he told me the gun should regulate at
120-125gr. The FPS at 120gr should be around 2000fps. Like I said the posted
spec's on this load are 750gr bullet @ 2050fps. This was rarely achieved
with Kynoch factory ammo as it was a proofed round with 30"barrels. My
barrels are 24" so losing a 100 or so fps is pretty standard.

Bob