I'm considering breaking the piggybank and picking up a double. I don't have a lot of real world experience with doubles and know very little about what it desirable or not.
Because of all of the good things I've heard both here on AR and elsewhere. I'm thinking Searcy is the way to go but what are the advantages of the PH and Deluxe model vs. the under lever. The chamber will be 500NE regardless of the model but I would sure like some information on what is best and why.
Thanks John

John,
gimme a call first..
jeffe

fritz454
"I'm considering breaking the piggybank and picking up a double. I don't have a lot of real world experience with doubles and know very little about what it desirable or not.
Because of all of the good things I've heard both here on AR and elsewhere. I'm thinking Searcy is the way to go but what are the advantages of the PH and Deluxe model vs. the under lever. The chamber will be 500NE regardless of the model but I would sure like some information on what is best and why."
Thanks John


I have the same questions! Also, what about the English made doubles, which are 4-5x the cost of a Searcy double. Will they "hold" their value? Are they a "good investment"? What about sources for bullets & brass for the 500 NE?
Thanks

Probably boils down to do you want a shooter or a collector...The two are not in competition with each other...

The Searcy is my idea of a hunting rifle and I like the PH model, its strong, will shoot monolithic bullets whereas an English gun should not....It is over all much more accurate in most guns produced....It will hold its value but probably won't increase in value every year like a English gun will..at least as long as they are produced, it Butch ever gets out of the double gun business then they will skyrocket in price, so thats a possible sometime in the future....

An English gun is beatiful and will gain in value every year you own it...It is a better investment, but must be cared for very carefully....I never liked the airlines handleing my English guns, and worried about them being stolen or damaged, they handle like a dream,...

If you get a English gun then get a high end rifle, as it will make you much more money from an investment standpoint, than the beat up cheap worn out stuff that covers the shelves of big bore gun shops and SCI booths....

I don't want an underlever double...

The .470 is the most popular caliber and factory ammo and components are easily available, it is also for most folks, even the very experienced, top end recoil level....the 450-400-3" is my favorite caliber and the new 500/416 is a nice caliber..but one can load the 470 down a bit and have a better killer in the same recoil level as the 500-416, so thats why I went with the .470 in my Searcy this time....

I have owned a 500 and a 577 and found them a tad abusive for my likes...I have never seen one that had a bad bore or had been shot much, and that bolsters my mind set on its recoil! Kinda like 44 magnum pistols.

Componets are available for all the old calibers today, they have come back steadily in the last 10 years as more and more Americans make big bucks and prosper and delve into the wonderful world of nostalgia...

Whichever way you go is a lot of fun.

Well put Ray.

I would only add that expensive is a relative term. 4-5 times a Searcy is 50-60k. For some of my aquaintances a 10k rifle is out of the question. For others a 10k rifle is much to cheap for them to bother looking at.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
I'm considering breaking the piggybank and picking up a double. I don't have a lot of real world experience with doubles and know very little about what it desirable or not.
Because of all of the good things I've heard both here on AR and elsewhere. I'm thinking Searcy is the way to go but what are the advantages of the PH and Deluxe model vs. the under lever. The chamber will be 500NE regardless of the model but I would sure like some information on what is best and why.
Thanks John

John,The question you need to ask yourself is, "Do I want a a double rifle that is dependable for hunting?" Or "Do I want a double that is going to be an investment?".

As too the investment in English double rifles has about topped out, and the 50% gains experienced in the late 80s, and early 90s will never again be realized. They will still increase, but more slowly, than before. The reason the boom in Britt doubles happened in the first place was because people like BELL started makeing componant brass that had been non-existant, and a glut of nice Britt doubles became available from INDIA when they were outlawed there, for all but a select few people. Bought a K-mart prices the profits were astronomical, once these rifles got to the USA, and Australia. Then you could make money on any double you could come by, even worn ones that could be repaired. Today that profit will only come on very well maintaned doubles, and one must know what to look for in a used rifle of any kind that is nere 100 yrs old, but espacially where double rifles are concerned.

If that is the way you decide to go, I suggest you deal only with reputable dealers like Champlins. His may not be bargains, but what George Caslin tells you about the rifles you see in Champlin's you can take to the bank.

If you want to go with the "NEW" doubles offered today, then there are some things you need to think about. Do you want a rifle made to fit you, in the $10K, to $12K range, B. Searcy is the only act in town, with his PH model, and it is scheduled to go up in the fall. All the others are "OFF THE SHELF" in the $10K price range, sort of ONE SIZE FITS ALL. The Searcy is, IMO, a $14K rifle with a $10K price tag, made to fit you, and regulated to shoot any reasonable load you choose, within the standard chambering spread.

The true OFF THE SHELF doubles are worth looking at as well, if a hunting rifle is what you are looking for! The Merkel 140.2 Safari
sells at a SRP of $10.5K chambered for 470NE, 500NE, which I reccomend, or the No No rimless, high pressure chamberings of 416Rigby,and 375 H&H, which I do not reccomend. I have the 140.2 Safari 470NE, and the 140.1 chambered for 9.3X74R Merkels, and find absolutely nothing wrong with either. IMO, they are both value for money spent! The Krieghoff is a well built rifle, as well, but has a cocking system that I do not like, and they do not fit me well, though their chambering range is good, and they shoot quite well. The Chapuis rifles are nice and are well made as far as I've been able to essertain. The draw backs with the Chapuis, IMO, are the BEAVERTAIL forend, and their being too light for caliber. The BLAZAR is in this groupe but it is not even on the market, as far as I'm concerened, I wouldn't even consider it. The price for the Chapuis in Safari chamberings is above your $10K range by a couple thousand. In the Mediums like 9.3X74R, the Chapuis, and Krieghoff are both still above the $10K, while the Merkel 9.3 is in the $8K range today, but can be had for less if one shops.

I find that a double rifle that is made for a person seldom gets re-sold in the owner's lifetime. Looking at a $10K double rifle, made to order, the likelyhood of it being sold is, IMO, NILL! The rise in value of anything is only a factor, if you sell it.

It has always been my opinion, that a person who is not right up to the mark on double rifles, should buy NEW, for his first double, and use it to hunt with, and to learn more about double rifles, and later think about the fine old Britts. Some folks get tired of doubles fairly quickly, if they run into some of the problems attendant with double rifles, and decide they aren't for them. In this case the new ones can be sold, or traded in on a very nice custom bolt rifle, quite easily.

John,
If you have a 17" LOP, better go with a Searcy, custom fit.

Ditto Mac and Ray.

If you want to add a fine walnut spacer to the Merkel stock and the pad of your choice and refinish, you could consider the Merkel 140.2 in .500 NE.

My 14.5" LOP is well suited to the Merkel with a slip-on Galco leather covered pad. The drop and cast off fit me perfectly too, so I got lucky.

To see how a Merkel 140.2 in .470 NE shoots, see the George Hoffman Memorial target pics on the .470 NE thread.

Being of gorilla physique, the Searcy would probably be the way to go. He might make the barrels a bit longer too, to balance the butt addition.

Ja, Searcy for you!

You could deal directly with the Merkel factory and get whatever you want, but Searcy of the USA would be easier, PH model, of course.

Thanks guys for all the information. I do think I will go either new or slightly used and from someone I know. I've got a line on a 577 searcy. I'll post when I decide.
Thanks

If I bought two more doubles, they would be the 9.3x74R Merkel 140.1 and the .500 NE Merkel 140.2.

I think a 10.75 pound .500 NE double would be ideal for me, and the max in shootability and portability that I would care to deal with.

Definitely there is much to recommend a .577 NE made slightly heavier than 10.75 pounds.

That should be the end of the road for anyone in double rifles, if he wishes to actually hunt with them.

The .600 NE and .700 NE are just "show-off" pieces, as in "mines bigger than yours" pieces. Kind of useless.

HI Fritz

Between my dad and myself we Have 4 Searcy Doubles a older 375 flanged a 450/400ne "3" witch is a standard model a 470NE deluxe model and a 500NE PH model.A Friend of mine Greg Allen also has a 470NE PH Model,with all these guns we get great accuracy and i can tell you to buy any one of these models,just depends what you want to pay.Two well known PH's Johan Calitz as well as Ronnie Roland uses Searcy Doubles and that is the best test for me,they claim to have put a coupel of thousand shots trough them whith no problems,so you can not go wrong.

Read Shooting the British Double Rifle by Graeme Wright first.

Ray,
You say you don't like underlevers - why not? Are they slower to operate? I see where Cabelas' has a Searcy 470 Nitro for sale. They also seem to be more expensive than the "top break" double rifle.

I've had the pleasure of handling and shooting a couple of Merkels in March. A 470, which I doubled, LOL! and a 500. I thought both rifles were well made and priced as they should be.

If you want a 450/400 with 26 inch barrels better contact Butch Seracy, cause as far as I know butch is the only guy around offering 26 inch barrels.

If you step up to a 577 and I've never fired or handled one, you better not be recoil sensitive! I understand the recoil is "brisk", OK, it's OUCH!

If you get a 500, get a recoil pad. The one I shot didn't have a pad and it was plenty of recoil for me! But then again I've turned into a old recoil wuss!

The best double rifle is the one you decide to get! Find one you can afford and go shoot it. . .a lot!

quote:

The draw backs with the Chapuis, IMO, are the BEAVERTAIL forend

Mac,

Is it the looks of a beavertail that you don't like on a double rifle, or a more practical reason?

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

The draw backs with the Chapuis, IMO, are the BEAVERTAIL forend

Mac,

Is it the looks of a beavertail that you don't like on a double rifle, or a more practical reason?

With a heavy recoiling double you have wrap your hand around the forgrip to hang onto the barrels. If you don't at some point you'll end up holding the forend in your hand with out the rifle attached. A full beavertail won't let you do that unless you have REALLY huge hands.

heh.. huge hands... mine wrap AROUND a jana shotgun or a searcy beaver tail and touch the rear sight!!!

jeffe

I sure do miss my 450-400-3" and as soon as Butch starts makeing them on a 20 ga. size double rifle frame I will own one...

I worry about having to shoot my .470 from a precarious positition and having it feed my thumb to my nose! I have seen this many time with those big big bores...shooting them at the range and at buff in the thick stuff is two different worlds to me and my bursitas!

Guess thats why I load my .470 down to 2020 FPS with Northfork cup points, but it sure does slam those big boys to the dirt...Two quick shots and its 4 feet sticking straight up as a rule....not only that its a rush!

Well, you know how opinions are and all I have read on this thread has some merit. For what it's worth, here is mine. A year ago I started looking for a double and wanted to keep cost to under 14,000, preferably less as I am a lowly public servant. I started out looking at Merkels, Chapuis, Kreighoff etc. Most of the knowledgeable people I know soon convinced me that buying one of them new was like buying a new car. Go out the door with it and value drops several thousand. I began to look at it, not only from a useability stand point, but as an investment decision, in which I could recoup or even make a little some years down the road. Long story short (the key word is patience) I looked for some few months until I found exactly what fitted my needs. I bought a Jeffrey .450-400 3" in wonderful condition for under $10K. It had a Schmidt and Bender scope and claw mounts (which I promtly removed). Used it to take an elephant this past summer and absolutely love the caliber. (I think Ray said above that he sure misses his.) My main point is, if your on a budget like me, consider the resale value down the line, not to mention the joy of owning a British double.

Ramrod. Good point about resale. I am certainly no Bill Gates but the last gun I sold was when I was 17 years old and I regret that salt to this day.

I can't imagine a situation that I would be selling the rifle.

What I want is a 100% reliable double with lots of life in it. It needs to look good as well. I've been through the pistol phase, the small bore phase and am pretty heavy into the big bore phase.

I need to get on to something different just for fun. I've always wanted to get a double but could never see where I would use it that much. Since getting the 600 OK and having taken it out on a number of occasions I see that a double would just be another gun to go hunting with and not a safe queen.

Thanks for the advice I do appreciate everyone's point of view.

John

Ramrod,
You done good!
A WR .450/.400 3" for less than 10K!
Great buy, as it is obviously in decent shape and a shooter.
I would take to that like a duck on a June bug too. Merkel, Searcy, WR, all get the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

quote:

Originally posted by 510wells:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

The draw backs with the Chapuis, IMO, are the BEAVERTAIL forend

Mac,

Is it the looks of a beavertail that you don't like on a double rifle, or a more practical reason?

With a heavy recoiling double you have wrap your hand around the forgrip to hang onto the barrels. If you don't at some point you'll end up holding the forend in your hand with out the rifle attached. A full beavertail won't let you do that unless you have REALLY huge hands.

ErikD, I think 510Wells said it right! I concur with his assesment! I will add that the whole thing with a double rifle is feel. The Beavertail stock was not designed for double rifles at all, but for shotguns used in either competition, or driven bird shooting, where the barrels get real hot. Simply put there is no need for a beavertail stock on a double rifle, and they do not "FEEL" right, on a double rifle.

A double Rifle is seldom shot enough to get the barrels hot enough to be a problem for the shooter's hand, or shouldn't be! The shooting of a double rifle is usually no more than four shots in a string, starting with a cool set of barrels. Even on the range, the rifle should be shot as if you were shooting in the field, and allowed to cool between four shot strings. This is the way the rifle was designed to be used, negateing any need for heat control for your hand. Besides, they simply do not look right on a double rifle!

The forestocks on my two Merkels are a little too long, and a little thick ahead of the latch, and are to be thinned, and shortened by me soon!

Ja,
The splinter forearm adds to the instinctive pointing of the barrels for rapid fire when you have your hand around the forearm and barrels. The Merkel is perfect for me, and I would not want it any shorter or slimmer.

Thanks for enlightening me guys!

quote:

Originally posted by MHC_TX:
fritz454
"I'm considering breaking the piggybank and picking up a double. I don't have a lot of real world experience with doubles and know very little about what it desirable or not.
Because of all of the good things I've heard both here on AR and elsewhere. I'm thinking Searcy is the way to go but what are the advantages of the PH and Deluxe model vs. the under lever. The chamber will be 500NE regardless of the model but I would sure like some information on what is best and why."
Thanks John


I have the same questions! Also, what about the English made doubles, which are 4-5x the cost of a Searcy double. Will they "hold" their value? Are they a "good investment"? What about sources for bullets & brass for the 500 NE?
Thanks

I have due to a will a three gun set of W.R's one in 450-400-31/4, one in .500 n.e. , and one in .318. All where made for the same man around 1955. They are insured by Loyds and are in a gun vault that is located in a museum for that person. I wouldnt tell you there apraised value but i think you get the picture. If you want a good double to hunt with at reasonable cost then go to Searcey, if you want to invest then buy a Rigby, W.R. , Lancaster, of vintage they are like gold if taken care of. By al means get it checked out by some one who knows doubles and it will cost you about 10% of the guns retail.The best money you will ever spend.Charlie