I vote for other. Offer your actions in stainless. And try to find a way to offer wood stocks at a lower price than you currently do. But whatever you do, do not sacrifice quality. Build the rifles to order. No sense in buying a custom if they are avaliable off the shelf so to speak. But try to have rifles delivered within 6 months of ordering. Many people are becoming soured at long waits for products. Your fairly quick production time, all actions avaliable left handed and the fact they are machined from scratch are the reasons I decided to go with you

I would suggest a round receiver Interarms Mark X / M98 clone.

Put it out with a fairly plain Serengeti laminate stock or 'rosewood' traditional laminate. The rifles would have a very narrow selection of options, like open sights, and would be offered chambered in common, high volume sales cartridges only.

While I am left handed, I think it would not be an economic propostion to make left handed options. Unfortunately. Fewer changes / variations will reduce the production unit costs.

I would look to compete with the Dakota 97 actions / light weight and Long Range Hunter rifles.

While I voted for 1 (standard rifle package) i feel you should offer a spec rifle as well as options.. that is, say, determine your best selling rifle, make it a 14.5" LOP, and offer options as an extra pricec and delivevry time.

sights
caliber
LOP
finish
wood upgrades

Let's say your mauser action, square bridged, with a popup peep under warne scope bases, 06 based, standard mag based (same price) with long mag (lott for example) as an upcharge.. and then up to 550 magnum, 550 express, 500 jeffery, 510 wells/500A2 as semi standard options.

so you would be looking at a standard 06 and "standard" mag platform, being masters of feeding for these, and then offer bigger calibers, for a charge and extended delivery.


This way you can have stocks, actions, and barrels available to run together quickly for the standard stuff, a little more time and money for the long calibers, and a little more for the huge ones.

Standard platform
turkish walnut
#3 or #4 barrel
22 LPI checkering
barrel band front sight (use NECG inserts)
barrel band sling
inletted sling base (rear)
checkered bolt
square bridge mauser
warne bases intergal
pop-up peep (i can call to talk about that)
ebony tip and cap
BIG butt area and limbsaver pad (with the michillen rings ground off)
14.5" LOP.. . it's easier to cut than stretch
standard polish, not shiney!!

upgrades and options - all result in ~30 days longer turn around
full lengh HH rounds X$
Weatherby/Jjeffery rounds (404 and 500) Y$
Wood Upgrade $$
Drop box $$
custom LOP $$

this would mean use a large bolt diameter than the m98.. and should!!

I wouldn't do a magnum lengh, to tell you the truth, as that market is well covered and small

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by WaffenfabrikHein:
Develop a standard rifle package that can be built in higher volume, have them available for immediate deliver. If you choose this one, let us know what the features of this standard rifle would be.

With the whole winchester thing up in the air, there seems to be an obvious void in the market for the M70.

Not that the quality of the two actions can be fairly compared. Yours' are well beyond theirs.

I say standardize a few, pick up the volume, bring down price a bit and capitalize on some of these winchester buyers left hanging.

Karl,
Snowwolfe beat me to the punch so I will echo his comments on Wood. I think if you could offer even a basic wood stock without the price going up greatly over the synthetic stock rifle, you would sell more rifles. I realize that wood stocks can be labor intensive, but so is building quality actions, and you seem to have found a way to streamline that process without hurting quality.

Bring out an unfinished gun package where we get a "white" un crowned 27" barrel on a Mauser/M-70 style action with three pos safety, Timney style trigger hinged floor plate and a stock choice of synthetic or wood, and wood upgrades as desired.

Let the customer do the following (or his smith)
1 cut barrel to his length and crown
2 install iron sights if desired
3 sand, finish, and checker the stock
4 install choice of sling swivels
5 bluing to suit....matte-hi polish etc
6 unjeweled bolt....let customer do it
7 customer to install his choice of forend tip, grip cap, and butt pad.
8 customer to chamber and throat as he wants

Essentially I'd like to see a barreled action (good stuff now) unchambered and fitted to a stock so that one has the ingredients of a high quality foundation for a custom gun.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

With the whole winchester thing up in the air, there seems to be an obvious void in the market for the M70.

.

Just struck me as ironic... if winchester can't sell model 70s at a profit, who can... at model 70 prices ??

jeffe

I voted for a rifle package with features that could be standardized, ie calibers, barrel contours, stock materials, etc. Possibly a glass stocked M70 variant in two persuasions...safari grade in 375, 416, 450 all done up with detach mounts and quality iron sights. Then another in sporter configuration with a match grade barrel, premium scope mounts and an accuracy guarantee of sub-MOA with factory ammo loaded with premium hunting bullets.
I would not try to price these to compete with typical M70 or M700 type guns. Build a quality product and charge a price that will be int he same range as other semi-production rifles of this class. Hill Country, Bansner, Rifles Inc all come to mind.

I have always wanted someone to bring back the Remington M720. WWII finished production of the rifle at a small number, and Remington "went cheap" when they restarted production after the War with the M721/722/725.

I would change the breeching from Springfield style to your N series, fit a good trigger and safety and a "mo bettah" bottom metal design.

The M720 was the most advanced action of the Enfield Pattern family, and the three changes I suggested fix its only faults.

jim

Build 12 Ga FH barreled actions for $2500 and they will come!-Rob

The only area you haven't covered is a decent double rifle. Searcy's backlog would indicate there may be room for another decent quality rifle in the market place.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
The only area you haven't covered is a decent double rifle. Searcy's backlog would indicate there may be room for another decent quality rifle in the market place.

Yep!

how about a standard grade wood and finish to come in at $2300 in 416, 450 Rigby, 470M'bogo, 505 and the 550 Magnum? Standard sights, no forend cap, Pachmayr FP990 pad in brown only, and NO OPTIONS!!!! 26" barrels, no options!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KISS package, call it the PH model. Short on frills, long on killing power and value.

JMHO

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

With the whole winchester thing up in the air, there seems to be an obvious void in the market for the M70.

.

Just struck me as ironic... if winchester can't sell model 70s at a profit, who can... at model 70 prices ??

jeffe

No One, but I agree a GOOD M70 may be a CRF
pre 64 style, good trigger etc might make as much as an expresso stand.

I voted for †Develop and build another reproduction of another action designâ€, and for me it’s a square bridge mauser. Both Standard and magnum length action.

Karl,
I sent you an email.

Karl,

I think a well-thought-out semi-custom is the way to go. So I voted for standard rifle package--but would suggest the added factor of permitting modifications and upgrades.

The key is that the standard package MUST be well thought out. Build it on an M98 Mauser double square bridge with classic British styling and in all the best, classic and also modern calibers, and THEY WILL COME!

Or so I think. Of course, no one has yet done it quite right or for quite the right price.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
While I voted for 1 (standard rifle package) i feel you should offer a spec rifle as well as options..

I am with Jeff on this one.

Karl: to quote you 'We are a small custom manufacturer that will not sacrifice quality for cost.'
Sounds like you know what you want to focus on already.
I don't know what type of action would be best but it seems the benchrest guys are willing to spend top dollar on top notch equipment.
Or maybe get into Cooper territory, high quality rimfires.
Galazan is doing great it seems also.
Holland & Holland has been doing great for over 100 years, so i guess top notch quality has it's place.
I quess I'm trying to say don't cheapen you product in any way.
But since I'm also a small manufacturer that will not sacrifice quality for cost, if someone would offer to buy me out, expresso stand it would be.

As a business owner first and hunter second, I cannot answer the question because I don't understand your target market/demographic. Although I know what I want, my reccomendations would be valid ONLY if I can afford the quality and workmanship which your company prides itself in, and if I am represenative of a broader market.
P.S. Only open an Espresso stand if you will really love doing it--and can make $$$.

-George

I'd like to see a small ring Kurz type action with improvements (M70 safety, staddle floorplate, adjustable trigger, solid side wall, bridges, etc) but you probably wouldn't sell alot.

A production rifle similar to the old Brno ZG47 or Oberndorf sporters with improvements (adjustable trigger, M70 safety, lower bolt stem, mid-grade walnut, good quality hand checkering) would be nice too. Perhaps something that could be sold for under $2000 with enough volume and all the desirable bells & whistles.

I'm going to assume (shame on me) that it would be very difficult for you to build and stock a production gun for the same as you sell a bare action without significant tooling and production changes. Not to mention all the invetory you have to keep in house.

Problem with that is one little hiccup in the economy and that stuff sits on the shelf for 9 months and you go broke waiting for the discretionary spending power to return to the gun market. That's done-in more than one talented producer who tried to play a bigger game.

If I had your talents and capabilities I would develop new product capabilities but not invest significantly in something which, by design, has to be of lesser quality that what you can currently do.

You probably would be better off financially opening an espresso stand but knowing you two you would soon have the damned Italian espresso machine apart and start improving it. Plus you couldn't atay away from guns anyway so just keep doing what you are doing. There will always be a market for the best.

Phil,
Can we borrow your 458 to use as a model for the spec rifle? We will even give you credit as the original designer. According to Dave, if we did that there would be no other rifle on the market would compare.

If you wanted to branch out a bit I think an elegantly styled big bore single action revolver would sell well. In my mind I envision a Freedom Arms-Ruger Bisley hybrid turned out in Bowen Arms best quality style.

I like the idea of a stainless M98.

It seems improbable that anyone can give an opinion on this without knwing how well made it is going to be, what it looks like, how long it will take to get one and what it costs.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
I'd like to see a small ring Kurz type action with improvements (M70 safety, staddle floorplate, adjustable trigger, solid side wall, bridges, etc) but you probably wouldn't sell alot.

A production rifle similar to the old Brno ZG47 or Oberndorf sporters with improvements (adjustable trigger, M70 safety, lower bolt stem, mid-grade walnut, good quality hand checkering) would be nice too. Perhaps something that could be sold for under $2000 with enough volume and all the desirable bells & whistles.

Echo

Cheers
/JOHAN

Just one thought - A little tweak, and an easy one at that.

Offer a G33/40 clone option where the length is a little shorter so that it is sized for 250/300 Savage, etc.

Every now and then people commission someone to cut up two Mauser actions to make a shorty. Gunmakers hate doing that (for obvious reasons). This would be an easy deal, just shorten up the bolt and receiver length in the CNC code.

Don't worry about trying to offer a cheaper (but still high quality) wooden stock. If there was a way to do that, it would have been done by now. Wood needs love, and love ain't cheap. Actually, wood got nothing to do with love, but it still ain't cheap .

A random thought on Stainless. Possibly make it out of something other than 416 (the only desirable characteristic of 416 is that it is free machining). Charge extra for the stainless option because a quality stainless steel will take longer to machine, and wear out tooling much faster. Make the extra cost a selling point. Americans like to feel special.

I believe the G 33/40 clone is a stroke of genius.

lawndart.

PS Wanna trade a blue Nissan for an action .

quote:

PS Wanna trade a blue Nissan for an action .

Sure,
I think we have an Rem 700 around here somewhere.....


or did you mean one of our actions?

Karl, "Ole Ugly" has been requested before only as a model for a boat anchor -- or to bail someones ass out of a jam. It works for both.

I hope the G33/40 has a solid wall - no thumb cut/ slot to enable charger strip / clip loading.

This thumb slot makes sense on a military rifle, enabling the magazine to quickly loaded. For a sporting rifle, however, the solid wall provides greater action stiffness and assists the potential accuracy of the rifle.

It also helps for fast loading.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Actually, wood got nothing to do with love, but it still ain't cheap .

... A random thought on Stainless.

lawndart.

Touche' to lawndart. Double entendre.

Dream rifle void, build this and they will come:

Stainless Magnum Mauser with .750" bolt diameter suitable for .532" to .640" cartridge rim diameters and supplied with proper box and feed job, and stainless barrel with open sights, for .375 H&H to .505 Gibbs, all finished a matte black to conceal the stainless.

AND

Gotta have integral scope bases milled into the double-square-bridge receiver of stainless. Fine with the simple picatinny slots like a Leupold QRW. That would be a bold pioneering move, and actually better than any other system. KISS: integral QRW.

AND

Gotta have option of NO WOOD, with synthetic stock of McMillan quality.
Some of us do not even want another wood stock if we can help it.

Like lawndart said: "wood got nothing to do with love"

..for me the products from Waffen Heim looks great

I just wished someone could make a 100% copy of the 1897 Farquaharson action made by
westley Richards