Ye Olde Barnes Original .510/600-grain RNSP lacks a cannelure from factory.
Easy to fix with the CH4D "cantool."







Some 500 Bateleur brass 2.700" max, trim to 2.690" minimum brass length.
Also 400 Whelen Berry brass 2.494" max, trim to 2.484" minimum brass length.
I am still perfecting my annealing.
These are ready to load and fire:





Just half a dozen turns of the crank with firm pressure on the black ball:
The cannelure is perfectly placed to have full contact between neck and bearing surface of this bullet in the 500 Bateleur.
The bevel on the bottom of the bullet lines up right at neck-1 juncture with shoulder,
when crimped in middle of CH4D cannelure.

Tis a great tool... Better than the Corbin tool, which Rob and I might have mentioned a time or three over the last decade and change

RIPPER....

I have had one of these for many years now, and it is a great tool, and have used it many times on odd bullets either with no cannelure, or one that might have been in the wrong place for my purposes.....

Question:

How important is it to have a cannelure on a bullet if you used a Lee Factory Crimp die?

Lee says you don't need a cannelure to use one and when I have on bullets like Nosler Partitions...it actually forms a cannelure of sorts in the jacket.

Thoughts from the experts?

First time I have used it.
It seems to be "fool proof."
If you get by without a crimp or use the Lee Factory Crimp die without a cannelure, that is OK.
But if you don't have a custom crimp die for every rifle (wildcats especially) it is nice to have a cannelure and the regular roll crimp.
Allows better throat-matching COL in some cases,
like the 400 Whelen B with 400-grain bullet in a 3.4" magazine
and adequate throat length in the chamber.
Now I will probably shoot these "Weeweeland Approved" heavy-for-caliber varmint bullets just to get some load data,
chronographed outdoors whenever the ice storm ends.

From the first picture above, you can "map the ogive" of the bullet by the roller polishing of the full bearing .510" diameter bullet shaft.
The cannelured bullet has some .510" diameter above the cannelure, seen here, again:

Been using one of these for years. Thought I was old-fashioned or something, but it worked for what I needed. Thanks for bringing it public again.

Max,
What else have I been missing out on?
That is a simply nifty little tool.
Stoutly built.

I wonder is any real test have been done to determine the affect on accuracy especially since the cannelure is done by hand & is bound to be slightly inconsistent from bullet to bullet?

D Humbarger,
You are straining your eyes to find fly poop in the pepper.
This can be as consistent as any factory cannelure.
It may not be CNC-machined precise, but when you add in all the other "compensating errors"
regarding the brass and handloading variances beyond knowing, it is a wash.

Does it weaken the bullet jacket at the cannelure? Yes. But that is more fly poop in the pepper.

Been using a Corbin tool for a while with no complaints. Are we talking Chevys vs Fords or is there a noticeable difference?

That's a neat tool, would not be too hard to make one using the serrated drive wheel off a common tin can opener as the cannelure wheel I'm thinking?

Is there any tendency for the bullet to ride up the backing rollers when canneluring?

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Been using a Corbin tool for a while with no complaints. Are we talking Chevys vs Fords or is there a noticeable difference?

I have had both.. Sold the Corbin Iirc.. For big bullets the Corbin doesn't work, full stop. More like pinto/Vega vs Dodge 3500

Well now that is just cool as all hell! I may find myself in need of one... or just in want of one!

-John

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
That's a neat tool, would not be too hard to make one using the serrated drive wheel off a common tin can opener as the cannelure wheel I'm thinking?

Is there any tendency for the bullet to ride up the backing rollers when canneluring?

That serrated wheel seems to lock the bullet in place once engaged. The bullet does not try to climb up the rollers.

quote:

Originally posted by John Galt:
Well now that is just cool as all hell! I may find myself in need of one... or just in want of one!

-John

I would have used one a long time ago if I had one.
I just added it onto an order of CH4D bullet sizing dies, realizing I should have ordered one a long time ago.
Recommendations of other members here for CH4D rather than Corbin guided the choice of cannelure tool.
Likewise, gunsmith recommendations of CH4D bullet sizer dies, rather than Lee, guided that choice.

Anyhow, I can now crimp any cup & core .410 or .411 diameter bullet from 300 to 400 grains to give a COL of up to 3.355" or longer,
in the 400 Whelen Berry of 2013, as long as there is no throat interference.
Adds a little pepper to the fly poop of performance improvement.
A wildcatter has got to have an edge, no matter how small it is.

Attempting 2600 fps with this 300-grain varmint bullet in the 400 Whelen Berry,
this bullet is about 50-thou off the lands of the 400 WB, so seated on the added cannelure, and will not chamber in the 400 WP.
That adds pepper to the fly poop.

As with any new tool added to the workbench, it takes a little practice to best learn how to use it. Surprisingly, shooting what looked like less than perfect bullets did not hurt accuracy as much as I thought it would. The good looking bullets stayed with the out-of-the- box bullets accuracy-wise. This was primarily the large bore bullets. Some of the sleek spitzers did show differences.

RIP, I should let you rummage around my reloading room! Who knows what may be found. One of my grandsons found a box of old Herter's Wasp-Waist bullets (7mm) earlier this summer.

Max,

Got any Nosler Zipedo bullets?
John at North Fork would pay good money for even one of those.

Accuracy testing to follow, top end speed testing first ... if the weather lets up.
Snowed in and about to get big bored, even in Kentucky. Shoveled my driveway last night.
Almost like being in Colorado.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Been using a Corbin tool for a while with no complaints. Are we talking Chevys vs Fords or is there a noticeable difference?

I have had both.. Sold the Corbin Iirc.. For big bullets the Corbin doesn't work, full stop. More like pinto/Vega vs Dodge
3500

Been using my Corbin on .458 and .411 dia bullets with no problem. I will admit that the CH4D looks to be a much better made tool.

I was loading some 416 Taylor ammunition a few years ago. The factory cannelure on the Swift bullets was too far forward for the Taylor; it created a "too short" COAL, and used up valuable powder space in the case.

The CH4D cannelure cutter corrected all that slicker than warm alligator snot.

It really looks like a great addition to one's
reloading gear, that's for sure!

I'll be getting one to do 585" bullets,
as I plan to be making them by next summer.
585 only, just for the big bore. Ed

RIP: Shot up all my Nosler Zipedos years ago. Also all those Nosler solid base bullets.

Lawndart: Is that warm alligator snot Slicker Than Owl Shit? STOS lubricant.

I am now going to have to get one of these.

Just because .

I don't know how many times I will use it, but like other gear here I'll have it if I need it. Probably none of my buddies have one.

quote:

Lawndart: Is that warm alligator snot Slicker Than Owl Shit? STOS lubricant.

Fresh Owl shit and still warm alligator snot likely have close to identical low friction coefficients. Old owl shit is not slick; the same holds true for alligator snot (as the water component evaporates).

I would guess that it is a wash between the two.

Perhaps a little Possness-Warren STOS?

My experience with the CH4D products is that they are excellent. It is a shame they are not more widely known. They did a great job on my .256 & .35 Newton dies. I would guess a carefully hand rolled cannelure would be just as accurate if not more so than the high production machine made version.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:

quote:

Originally posted by Jeffeosso:

For big bullets the Corbin doesn't work, full stop.

Been using my Corbin on .458 and .411 dia bullets with no problem. I will admit that the CH4D looks to be a much better made tool.

yes sir.. like i said, the ch4d works for big bullets, while the corbin is okay for "not big" bullets... LOL

Loading bullets out long has always been a secret sauce tool of mine for getting extra oomph when I want it. I think this is a way better design than the Corbin and I'm gonna buy one. Thanks RIP!!

Welcome, Rob,
And thank you for the 600 OK shots.