Hello Friends
Is there anybody that can help with Loading data for 350 grs bullett in 375 H&H Mag rifle.

If you can get Hodgdon h4350 (ADI, AR2209) powder, we have had good results with 73grns at 2350fps but you should start with less powder for starters.

Thank you. I think I can get Hodgon power, if not I can use another powder with the same burning rate, I have a comparing list.

Start in the low 60's with RL-15. 65 grs. gave me 2350 fps.

I shoot the following in my rifle:
start low and work up as these are max loads:


WW brass, Fed 215 primer, Woodleigh RN or PP bullet.

66 grs. of RL-15 2407 FPS
65.5 grs. of IMR-4350 2405 FPS
75 grs. of H414 2415 FPS

My standard go everywhere load is 65.5 or 66 grs. of RL-15, depending on which gun...

The PP has more penetration.

The RN expands faster and does more damage internally.

Both are exceptional bullets on all game. I prefer the PP for hunting dagga bulls, and the RN for herd shooting.

Norma now offers heavier bullets (Woodleigh) in an array of factory loaded cartridges, labelled as "AFRICAN PH":

350 grainer in .375 H&H
450 grainer in .416 Rem
450 grainer in .416 Rigby
450 grainer in .404 Jeff
and a few others

Obviously intended for the DG hunter that wants ready-made ammo.

Warrior

Rem Brass
215 Primer
Last batch of RL15 65.0 gave me 2350 with woodleigh PP's.

Just recieved last week 20 new LBS of RL15 & this new powder is slower and it is taking 67.0 grains to get me to 2355 FPS. Very mild recoil in my Kimber Caprivi. Shoots consitently 1" or less groups at 100.

Mac

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Norma now offers heavier bullets (Woodleigh) in an array of factory loaded cartridges, labelled as "AFRICAN PH":

350 grainer in .375 H&H
450 grainer in .416 Rem
450 grainer in .416 Rigby
450 grainer in .404 Jeff
and a few others

Obviously intended for the DG hunter that wants ready-made ammo.

Warrior

Yes I know, I spoke with my old friend Kenneth Skoglund at Norma in that matter, he told me that they (Norma) is using a powder which is made spesially for this collection, and the powder was not in sale. I understand that Norma is not willing to say what they use in these loads, anoone could make the PH collection.

I was intending to use 350 grs Woodleigh in loads for big game.

I have very good loads with 300 grs and all the other.

I'm not sure it takes a special powder for those bullets to go so slow.

I have some of the 450 grain 416 Rem Norma. I will chrono some this weekend and post the results. It is suppose to be 2150 FPS MV. Very expensive.

Mike,
I shoot 75 grs. of RL-15 with the 450 gr. Woodleighs and get right at 2400 FPS in my 416 Rem and 416 Ruger, The norma load is definately weak IMO..The 450 gr. RN and PPs are sure nuff great bullets for Cape Buffalo and do a great job on small animals also.

I had a finger slip above and corrected my load from 79 to 75 grs. sorry about that..thats why I hate posting loads.

Unless the 375 Norma performs better than the 416 I would stay away from it.

I chrono'd two of the 450 grain SN Norma loads at 2049 and 2054 and two of the same in FMJ at 2061 and 2056.

I was pretty dissappointed, they advertise to be 2150.

I shot some reloaded 400 grain Barnes TSX with 75 gr of Reloder 15 at 2329 and 2335, so I believe the Chrony.

It's worse than Norma being optimistic about their velocities, eh? I guess it is the liability lawyer loading their cartridges.

Makes you want to reload your own for sure. I wonder why Norma went through all the "PH Ammo" hype if they are near duds.

Not only are they too slow at 2050 fps, they are too slow at 2150 fps. To get nominal 416 muzzle energy of 5000 ft-lb, the 450's should be going 2250 fps.

Maybe this is some more of Robertson's slower is better crap. What a moron.

/

Alf's offense or no, Doctari does seem to have a psychological hangup with velocity. Maybe due to experience with weak cup&core bullets in the .375 H&H, 300-grainers that vaporize before they get to the target due to 1:12" twist and 2500 fps MV.

His advice is definitely on the antiquated side with modern bullets.

Norma PH ammo must be using antiquated bullets?

/

Alf,
Where it is legal to shoot solids, you will do fine with a heavy enough nondeforming cylinder of adequate caliber at 2000 fps ... but you are going to give up a lot in trajectory and versatility with that recipe, not to mention feeding issues in some repeaters.

There is no need for such limitation unless it is for nostalgia or some psychological hangup. For the former, might as well use a muzzle loader and go all the way for nostalgia. For the latter, might as well get some psychotherapy and use some modern ballistics.

The IWBB may not be "bio-visco-elastic solid material," but it does offer a complex mix of exponential and linear resistance as a function of bullet velocity. Also it is more consistent (shot-to-shot) than anything else I can do without a research grant to buy a refrigeration and gelatin storage facility, not to mention the expense of all those BB's that will be needed to calibrate the gelatin before each shot.

Even live game (or dead game) is too inconsistent from shot-to-shot to allow meaningful comparisons without an aggregate bag of several lifetimes in the field, if shooting like Will and his Pa. Then there is the analysis of the data ... or you would just have to trust the general impressions and recollections of Will and his Pa.

Akf,

I apologize. It was over the top.

But (there always has to be a but, eh?) while I admire the writers that have to crank out stuff every month for publications, there is a limit to what I can tolerate. From mis-calculating rotational energy (and then proclaiming its huge value has some likewise huge effect on killing power) to coming up with some new mumbo-jumbo to try to disparage Taylor's KO values, it is painful to read most of his stuff.

Sorry.

I met Kevin at Reno, bought his book, he autographed it for me and he spent time with me talking about hunting Africa. In the 15 minutes I spent with him he seemed like a good guy. I have also thoroughly enjoyed Africas Most Dangerous.

Kevin also advised me to look at the Norma PH for my 416. I felt the advertised 2150MV was a little slow but gave it a chance anyway. It seems as though 2150 is the "magic" number. If I wanted 2500FPS I would be shooting a Weatherby. However I am dissapointed in the 2050MV in a 24" barrel.

The only reason I chrono'd the PH ammo was it felt underpowered when shooting it. I do not even own a chrony and had to borrow one.

I intend to contact Norma and voice my dissapointment for what it is worth.

I have shot buffalo with my 404 and a 400 gr. bullet at 2000 to 2100 FPS and at 2653 FPS with the same bullet.

I shot buffalo with my .470 and a 500 gr. bullet at 2245 FPS and I have shot buffalo with the same bullet in my 470 at 2020FPS

So what were the results? In the 404 the faster load was obviously the better killer..

In the .470 I could not detect any difference at all.

This is the results I have come up with using various calibers over the years, and I still don't know who is right or wrong in the above posts..If I repeated the tests I would probably come up with a different finding. Go figure.

I have about come to the conclusion as long as one has a properly performing bullet at any decent velocity then an animal is like a Coors Beer, when all the juice leaks out, you got a dead soldier...

One thing for sure there is no pat answer to this arguement. So now I have pissed everybody off, its the nature of the beast.

Any gunscribe that writes the printed word is up for grabs, he knows this, it goes with his profession, so I will defend the right of both Rip and Will to feel free to make any comment they think is fair and just, it is their opinnion, and they certainly have the right to disagree with a writer. Alf, seems to think anybody that writes is without sin, or is infalable in his thinking, and takes offence to such things..That my friends is just

At times I probably overthink these things. However I like being comfortable with what I am shooting. If in my little brain I think I need 2150 that is what I want. I just do not need any doubt in what I am doing. Like Yogi said it is 90% mental and the half is physical. Maybe I could calibrate the chrony to read 2200

Understand Mike, that's why for rifle, I handload, weigh each charge, and check each round with the dial caliper. I then run them through the action 4 or 5 times each to make sure they'll feed and extract. Oh yeah, I chronograph also. For my Springfield long slide 45 Super, I have a Dillon 650. The powder measure hasn't changed .05 grains after several thousand rounds. I still check it though before I start loading rounds.

Regards
Chuck

73g of H4350 was a little hot in my rifle, they're all a bit different. Here's a repost of my results with both the 350g Woodleigh and 250g Swift A-Frame (deer and elk load)

Had a successful Father's day with my youngest son Eric (15) at the range this afternoon. He shot his .270 and my Springfield V16 Long Slide in .45 Super. He even took 2 shots with the 375 H&H using factory loads. I had good results with both the 350g Woodleigh PPs and 250g Swift A-Frames

CZ 550 Safari Classic in 375 H&H 25" barrel. Rem Brass, CCI Large Rifle Magnum Primers and Lee Factory crimp die used for all loads.

350g Woodleigh PP 68g H4350 3.60" OAL (.100 freebore) 2260 fps 1.25" 3 shot groups 100 yards
350g Woodleigh PP 70g H4350 3.60" OAL (.100 freebore) 2310 fps 0.75" 3 shot groups 100 yards
350g Woodleigh PP 72g H4350 3.60" OAL (.100 freebore) 2360 fps 0.65" 3 shot groups 100 yards

All of these loads fed and extracted flawlessly, recoil at 72g H4350 was stouter than 300g factory loads but still very mild. 72g of H4350 will be my load for the 350g Woodleigh PPs, it may be too hot for your rifle so start up slowly.


Note: 72g of H4350 is MAX in my reloading manuals and proved so in my testing! I shot two more groups at 73, and 74g and this is NOT RECOMMENDED. Velocities exceeded 2500 fps, recoil got increasingly stout, extraction began to get a little sticky and the beginning of extractor marks appeared on the cases. I threw those cases away.


250g Swift A-Frame 69g IMR 4320 3.54" OAL (.50 freebore) 2710 fps 1.10" 3 shot groups 100 yards
250g Swift A-Frame 71g IMR 4320 3.54" OAL (.50 freebore) 2860 fps 0.90" 3 shot groups 100 yards
250g Swift A-Frame 73g IMR 4320 3.54" OAL (.50 freebore) 2910 fps 0.50" 3 shot groups 100 yards

All of these loads fed and extracted flawlessly. Recoil was very mild compared with 300g factory loads. The last 250g Swift A-Frame load with 73g IMR 4320 which is the stated MAX in the Swift reloading manual will be my Colorado elk, deer, bear hunting load.

Thanks for all of the help on this board. Hope this data helps someone else.

Regards,
Chuck

Thanks,
chuck375.
Some excellent info there. I like those loads for a .375 H&H.
Even Kevin Robertson would approve of your 350-grainer load, I am sure.

Chuck
Very well done, it really answered the original question.

Chuck,

I have my own 375 project going. Is the BC on the 250 grain bullet anything to be concerned about? Does its SD of 254 take away from its ability to adequately penetrate an elk?

Finally, the CZ feels like a railroad tie in my hands. I am using a M70 for an action. I still am trying to decide on a barrel length for my rifle. I really like the look of the .700 barrel my dad had on his BRNO.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Alf's offense or no, Doctari does seem to have a psychological hangup with velocity. Maybe due to experience with weak cup&core bullets in the .375 H&H, 300-grainers that vaporize before they get to the target due to 1:12" twist and 2500 fps MV.

His advice is definitely on the antiquated side with modern bullets.



Norma PH ammo must be using antiquated bullets?

Absolutely. I'd be willing to wager a 270gr TSX will out-penetrate that 350gr Woodleigh any day and shoot a heck of a lot flatter as well. With modern bullets that hold up, take all the speed you can get. Take it from a neophyte jorge

Jorge,
I wouldn't argue that point at all!! I would add that both the 350 gr. Woodleighs and the Barnes 270 gr. bullets are excellent buffalo bullets with more than sufficient penetration and enough internal damage to get the job done from any angle and that is all that's required..

Thanks Ray for your defense of freedom of speech here.
Thanks Jorge.
We just like to rock the "high horse" now and then, to keep the rider on his toes in the stirrups. We don't want Doctari getting a sore butt, or falling asleep at the reins.

Hi jsl3170, I guess the BC is a little low at .271 but at 2800 fps (not hot in the least)if you sight it in 2.1" high at 100 yards, it's dead on at 200 yards and 10" low at 300 yards. It's sectional density at 2.54 is about the same as a 165g 30-06 bullet and it hits a lot harder. I would be depressed if it did not fully penetrate and exit and elk. My 150g Noslers out of my 270 at 3000 fps always did. The 375 H&H is way overpowered for elk (I don't care what Elmer Keith said), but I like to hunt big game with one rifle, so this is it.

As far as blockiness goes, my CZ is heavy, but it doesn't feel blocky in my hands. I'm going to get the balance a bit back further towards the butt end. I'm used to a 30 year old Rem 700 BDL in 270 so it is a little thicker at the forearm and pistol grip.

Best wishes with your M70 375 project,

Chuck

Jorge, I'm not saying this is definitive and I have no experience with the 375 H&H on game yet (soon though!) but here's a link to some penetration testing done you might find interesting. Animals are different than water jugs and plywood particularly when they're mad, but I found it interesting just the same. The 350g Woodleighs were only loaded approx 2200 fps so it may have hurt or helped their penetration ...



http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=122864#post122864


Regards,
Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Jorge, I'm not saying this is definitive and I have no experience with the 375 H&H on game yet (soon though!) but here's a link to some penetration testing done you might find interesting. Animals are different than water jugs and plywood particularly when they're mad, but I found it interesting just the same. The 350g Woodleighs were only loaded approx 2200 fps so it may have hurt or helped their penetration ...



http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=122864#post122864


Regards,
Chuck

Which goes to shows my recommending Swift A-Frames for buff is gospel!

Low velocity helped penetration since they did not expand as much, or as consistently as the Swift, NF or Nosler.

They were all over the place for expansion.

Probably a nice bullet for the 375 Improved at higher velocity?

Andy

The Woodleighs, Barne's, and North Forks (unfortunately gone now) did very well also. It would be interesting to see how a 350g Woodleigh PP would do at 2500 fps through a 375 Weatherby or Ackley Improved.



Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=122864#post122864

Some good info can be derived from waterboarding of bullets.

Imitation is flattery. First Norbert and now this guy. Thank you very much.

2550 to 2600 fps should be easily attained with the 350-grain Woodleigh PP in a .375 Weatherby with 24" to 26" barrel.

I think that the Woodleigh might over-expand at that velocity.

A 300-grain Swift or monometal copper hollowpoint would be much better ... at 2750 to 2800 fps in the same rifle.

I didn't do the penetration study, 9ThreeFifty on the NitroExpress Forum did, I did supply the Woodleigh bullets though ...


Chuck

Rip, Will, Ray, et al, Can't argue with the Swift. IT's my favorite bullet. If you may remember, it ccounted for two buffalos in my 05 safari in both 400gr 416 Rigby and 300gr 375, not to mention about 17 other head of game. All perfect performance! jorge

An attractive feature of rebarreling my 375 H&H to 470 Capstick is the availability of the 500g Swift A-Frame and 500g GS FN solids both in .475 caliber.

Regards,
Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
An attractive feature of rebarreling my 375 H&H to 470 Capstick is the availability of the 500g Swift A-Frame and 500g GS FN solids both in .475 caliber.

Regards,
Chuck

No kidding! We are so lucky to have current bullet designs that just couldn't get much better.

I got 2400 fps with 72.5gr of Imr4350.