Greatings

Have any forum members used flat nosed bullets (specificaly hydrostatic Woodlieghs, but any flat nose is ok) in their 416 Rigby?

Im interested in any info or experience with seating depth?

Thanks in advance

Stu

Hi Stu,

I have done a lot of loading for .416 Weatherby (as you know, not much more than a 416 Rigby with a belt and higher pressures).

I've loaded Barnes Banded Solis, GS Custom FN and NorthForks solids. In general, I seat these to same OAL as I do other bullets with spitzer or semi-spitzer profiles - 3.78".

What specifically did you want to know about seating depth?

Smoke the bullet with a candle and seat it deeper til it's about .010 short of touching the lands.

Hey Mikey, Are you sure that bullets are the only thing that all you guys are smoking up there????

I agree with Mike but I might go .030" off to start with ....and I haven't smoked anything in quite a long time

From there it is a matter of what feeds. That may require even deeper seating which automatically requires less of a powder charge due to decreased powder capacity.

Gday gents
Thanks for the replies.

CCm: The reason I ask is I have worked up a load in my 500N with the new woodliegh hydrostatics. It took some time to get it all sorted and I ended up having to seat the bullets a fair bit deeper than the standard COL.
I think this is mainly because of the very straight shoulders of the projectile.
It would be nice if someone had completed the exercise already.
Obviously I will post any data I end up with should I be the first.

Mike : Thanks, how would you measure the .010 or as NFMike says .030?

Cheers

Stu

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Hey Mikey, Are you sure that bullets are the only thing that all you guys are smoking up there????

Fish and muktuk!

Stuey,
The way I've always done it (and others may have their own way, except for 3 finger Biebs, he stopped loading after that terrible accident with the blender and well,..... nevermind)

Cover the bullet with smoke froma wax candle, (inert round)keep seating it progressivly deeper til there are no marks shown from closing the chamber and touching the lands with the bullet. Measure then keep seating til the OAL is .010 or 030 less than with the bullet just clearing the lands. I'll defer to NFMike's number on these newfangled mono bullets.

There's a lot of room for powder in a 416 Rigby case. With this caliber finding the right C.O.A.L. length for flawless feeding should be the goal, since there's a powder somewhere that will get you nominal velocities whatever the remaining case capacity.

Most people have never seriously tried rapid reloading of their rifle, it can be an eye opener. Don't do this at home!

Good evening gents

Mike and NFMike: Is it a case of tiny increase, bit by bit until the verniers give you the .03" after the rifling is no longer obvious?

Wink: Understood, do you think there is a problem with too much lead before the bullet enguages the rifling? I would have thought it would be better to get the bullet just off the lands and then check for feeding?
This is a trial only to see if they shoot and feed in my CZ. If not it is not a problem as the FMJs and the RNSN have done the job in the past.

Opinions and advice appreciated

Regards

Stu

Stu, if you can seat it just of the lands and get perfect feeding then I guess you've found the optimal COAL. If not, then you will have to try slightly greater seating depths in increments until you get the feeding fixed. Personally I would do this with dummy cartridges, or at least no powder cartridges if you don't want to make permanent dummy cases.

When I get a particular case and seating depth just right, I keep a dummy case to make future die ajustments easy when I come back to that bullet case combination.

barnes recommends -.065 .. which is a darn good place to look for accuracy.

I wouldn't seat just off the lands with any mono. Seen pressures spike in too many cases. Obviously, powder burn rate and expansion ratio come into play but I still would start at a min. of .030.

I've used the "smoke, close, and seat" method and it will work if you take into consideration the amount (if any) of skid before the bullet gets pushed into the case (obviously this is done with a dummy round). Depending on the bullet, you can have .030" of skid. If you did and you set the OAL at .030 shorter than the "pushed in" length, you are actually right at the lands. Some monos with a sharp edge (the Woodleigh mono may be one) have no skid. You just have to be careful of whether it is doing so or not and that will depend on the type of initial contact surface the particular bullet has. Ones with lands are less likely to skid. Those with ogives are more likely. Or you can just buy the right equipment so there is no questimating involved.

Take Wink's advice or find out the hard way. Feeding is more important than the last iota of accuracy. You may have to seat your flat meplat bullets a lot deeper than you realize in order to get flawless feeding (if flawless feeding is even possible with your particular rifle).

quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
Greatings

Have any forum members used flat nosed bullets (specificaly hydrostatic Woodlieghs, but any flat nose is ok) in their 416 Rigby?

Im interested in any info or experience with seating depth?

Thanks in advance

Stu

I have to seat my 400 grain RHINO solids extremely deep to NOT touch the lands.
Softs @ 3.620" vs. solids @ 3.470"
cf. Sledgehammers @3.585" [OAL]

Fortunately IMR 4831 with solids and H4831SC with softs (both compressed/full) shoot to relatively same point-of-aim.

stuey, I load GS Customs (380 gr. FN's) for my 416 Rigby. These are mono metal banded solids and are extremely accurate. No magic about it. Just adjust the seating depth until it feeds well and don't obsess about seating depth. I would recommend against seating to touch the lands. Gerard has some suggestions about seating depth on his website.
Just my 2 cents, Peter.

The only flat nosed bullets that I've used in my .416 Rigby are the 400 grain Banded solids. I just seated them so the crimping groove was positioned for crimping and called it good.

I normally play with COL on hunting, target and varmint cartridges, but honestly about all I need out of an .416 is that it works everytime and shoots the softs and solids to the same place.Mine will shoot MOA, but that doesn't make it more suitable for its use.

Thanks so much gents.

Some good stuff here, I will have a play and post the data when all sorted out.

Peter: I agree with the accuracy. We spoke in the doubles thread regards my 500N and I must say those woodliegh hyrdostatics in my 500 shot the most magic groups! I found that the fall of shot with the FMJ were sometimes quite different from week to week and the right and left barrels printed apart ie the right barrels together and the left together and always low. Could have been me but no such issue with the hydros.

Best regards

Stu

One problem with using a dummy round and smoked bullet for checking COAL is that it is easy to push the bullet back into the case slightly when camming the bolt closed.

With larger calibres it is easier to closed the bolt on an empty chamber and insert a cleaning rod (without a jag or brush)until it contacts the bolt face. Mark the cleaning rod with a fine pen or razor blade at the muzzle, doesn't have to be right flush at the exit but as long as you can reproduce this marking position for the next stage.
Insert a projectile only and using your little finger (in 40cal and over calibres) push the bullet into the chamber until it is stopped by the lands. Using the rod from the muzzle end again you can now carefully push the bullet back and forwards between your finger and the rod and carefully seat the bullet into the lands not using any more pressure with your finger on the base of the bullet than necessary to just 'kiss' the lands. Now mark the rod as you did before.

The distance between marks is now the accurate COAL for that bullet when it is seated in a case and just touching the lands. Deduct off the amount of freebore you wish to use, say 0.030" and there you have your true COAL for loading. This method allows a nice sensitive feel of the bullet/lands contact without possible error being introduced due to case neck tension and bolt cam effect. just ensure that the end of the cleaning rod is large enough to push on the very front edge of the bullet where your caliper would measure from when checking COAL (not into the hollow such as on a hydrostatic bullet).

Same system can be used for smaller calibres only your finger wont fit in the chamber so need to use a sized case to press against the bullet base.

Good suggestion Eagle.

I used a similar method to the smoke in my double, but I take your point on the using an alternate method on a bolt action.

Regards

Stu

You know ...
The standard .416 Rigby throat is just a leade with zero free bore.
That is the throat on my Ruger RSM, "Ol'Purple," which shot 0.140 MOA for three shots at 100 yards, with GSC FN 380-grainers at 2506 fps ...
first three shots with first load tried for that bullet ... load development complete in three shots.
I just started off seating the GSC FN as deeply as possible to have one driving band barely out of the case mouth.
An old-style Swift A-Frame 400-grainer had too much full-diameter nose and ogive above the cannelure to even chamber in my rifle,
I had to seat that bullet deeper than the cannelure to even chamber a round.
Maybe Swift changed the nose chape since then, or other rifles that used it had sloppier throats than my rifle.

Shorter loads with FN bullets do usually feed better than longer COL.
Also having a longer bullet jump before fully engaginging the rifling helps keep pressures down,
via a running start and slide into the rifling instead of a sit-and-spike-pressure before the bullet takes off.

There is plenty of case capacity for seating bullets deeply in the .416 Rigby, and a long neck too.
No worries, start short and adjust from there.

Would anyone like to see the target picture from Ol' Purple, again? I could measure the COL with the GSC FN too.

RIP, most interesting. I ended seating the 500N hydro bullet to almost exactly the same place you have done. Those hydros have a long straight wall.

Cheers

Stu

quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
Good suggestion Eagle.

I used a similar method to the smoke in my double, but I take your point on the using an alternate method on a bolt action.

Regards

Stu

Was remiss of me for not considering those with doubles because of course the same method works for then too, with the standing breach face on a double equivalent to the bolt face. Even easier to insert and hold a bullet up to the lands with your finger on each barrel in an opened double.

If you uses the Hornady/Stonypoint system then you know were the bullet is comparied to rifleing. It's not hard to do if you are able to pat your head and rub your belly at the same time. I know that leaves out some that post on this forum.