I was thinking of getting a 375 ultra mag but I cant seem to find much about ballistics handloads groupings or any type of performance reviews on line is there anybody that has any info on the 375 ultra The 3 calibers I am pondering over are 340 wby 338 rum and 375 rum I do a lot of grizzly hunting as well as moose and elk. any input would be appreciated

A hunting buddy had his mod 70 375 hnh converted to 375 ultra - replaced stock with fiberglass, talleys mounts with 2.5x8 leupold scope - I don't know what he loads (all handloads) but he has tried various combinations and get very nice grouping at 100 and 200 yards; I believe his 200 yard was about 1.6" for three shots - I believe he shoots imr7828 powder - he posts under Diesel Dude - the cartridge is a dandy - KMule

Can i ask you why you want a super .375?
I would think a standard .375H&H would be excellent on both these species and that if you were looking for something "harder hitting" perhaps a .416 rem or rigby would offer more at the buisness end??

Not trying to start an argument, but just looking at it from a slightly different perspective.

Regards,

Pete

Here is reloading data for the .375 Ultra. - http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/375remultramag.php

I gotta agree with Pete E. I would much rather be shooting a heavier bullet with a greater sectional density than simply pushing a .375 caliber faster. The .375 already out-penetrates about anything, why make it go faster????

You will be experiencing .416 Rigby type recoil so why not take advantage of the benefits of the .416? Anyhow, that would be my choice. The other alternative would be the .375 Dakota. It offers more performance over the H&H in a manageable cartridge length and functional magazine capacity.

[ 12-17-2002, 19:07: Message edited by: Zero Drift ]

The .375 ultra will be just a blip on the radar screen. Remington will disontinue it in 5 years and that will be that.

If you like the .375 diameter, you are better off with the H&H for African use as the added velocity of an Ultra will just destroy bullets rather than giving you better performance.

If you want more than the .375 H&H offers, then the logical choice is a 416 Rigby (CZ550) or a 458 Lott.

The 375/404 Jeffery is quite popular with some folks. I would think it to be somewhat similar to the 375 RUM. I agree that this may be a blip on Rem's screen. Having said that I would look to necking down a more common case (404J/416 Rem/Rig) to 375.

Perhaps the caliber consideration should factor in the bullet to be used? If it's a Barnes then maybe the overbore 375 is under consideration?

Other than maybe the elk hunting you won't probably be taking "across the canyon" shots so maybe the consensus to stay with the 375 H&H is accurate?

Just some additional thoughts.

Reed

In reference to Saeed's round, he loads his to 375 H&H velocities, as the bullets work better at those speeds on thick skinned game.

I agree with the others, if you want more gun then a 375 H&H, the barrel needs a bigger hole. Another point to consider is that the extra range potential of the hot 375's is offset by the greatly increased recoil and shootability, or lack there of. IE, can you shoot a field weight 375 Ultra accurately enough to make 400 yd or longer shots?

I personally don't see grizzlies and moose as animals that should be shot at such ranges.

I thought he had some hotter loads he was using on plains game???

Anything I said was in reference to game similar to that previously mentioned, elk, moose, bear. I don't think he referenced anything thick-skinned as potential game for his needs.

Later,

Reed

I would not consider another .375 round other than the standard .375 H&H. And I share other posters views that if you want more power your better to jump a bore size. You could get a CZ .416 Rigby and shoot 300-340 gr projectiles in it if you wanted, rather than the standard 400 gr variety.

Of the calibers you listed for Griz, Elk and Moose, I would list the .338 RUM as the best trade off. The .375 Rum will probably not penetrate as well as the .375 H&H and kick you alot harder. The .340 WBY is fine as long as it's not shot from a WBY rifle ( read all Wby's are expensive CRAP)! The .338 RUM is faster than the .340 WBY and a good rifle costs much less. I have a .338 RUM and have used it on Elk. On a frontal shot at 200 yrds a 250 gr Nosler was found under the skin on the hind flank. Elk dropped to the shot and never moved. This is from a sligtly warmed over rem 700 ( new trigger and glass bedding). That's my two cents. as others have said a good .375 H&H is also a excellent option.-Rob

Cougarhunting, I would also like to have a 375 Ultra ( Model 70 ) If you come across any good loading info Please let me know too.

Nosler has reloading info on their web site.. 2849fps w/300gr bullet.

I wouldn't switch from the 375 H&H for anything, it has just served my too well on everything..For Grizzly I would about as soon have a 300 or a 30-06 with 200 gr. Noslers as anything...A 338 Win is about perfect.

I do not like the snap recoil and blast of the new 375's. I like the slow push of my H&H.

I would like to thank all those who replied for all your info I have never shot anything bigger than a 375 h&h ackley improved and I kinda liked the reassuring kick as it went off. I currently have a 30-06 and have never been disapointed with it. I have taken lots of deer with it at 400+ yards but I let an Elk go at 435 yards this year I coulnt guarantee the elk he wouldnt drop with one shot so I let him walk.How do you guys like the 416's and 458's at longer ranges or is it pretty hard due to recoil to get the accuracy.I dont know if I should drop to the 338rum or step up to the 416 (those numbers have a pretty impressive ring to them and I dont believe in over kill)

In my humble opinion he 375 AI/375 Wby (the two are almost identical) are the best 375's out there.


[ 12-23-2002, 06:15: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]

What attracted me to the 375 ultra was price. I thought about the 416's but everytime you go up a bore size the bullets get a little more expensive. I like to shoot and the hornady rn 300's at $13 a box allow me to do that affordably. Also $1,200 for a Weatherby(maybe someday) but when you can now pay $500 for a rem.700, put a real nice scope on it, buy dies, brass etc. and still be under the weatherby price was too much a difference for me. It also depends where you are going and what you will be hunting, most dangerous thing i will hunt will be elk.

As far as performance I load the 300 hornadies to 2730-2801 with 92-92.5 gr imr 4350. It is the biggest and hardest kicking rifle i have owned. out of the box at 7.5lbs the recoil to me is very hard but from kneeling and standing not too bad. Can't really speak for group size as most of my shooting has been at gongs and silhouettes-if they ring consistently then i am happy.

I concur with Billy 375's post. However, my 375 RUM is a Ruger #1 that I had rechambered from 375 H&H.

So far it has given me 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards which I hope to improve on by installing a speedlock system, mounting a better scope, and tweaking the loads a bit more.

Future plans are to build another #1 with a heavier & longer barrel from Pac Nor. For this I'm even considering an ugly JP brake for range use only.

I think the .375 RUM is far superior to either the .340 WBY or the .338 RUM and it shoots flatter than the .416 REM. Recoil however, might be a consideration in your choice.

I would forget about the .375 Ultra, as 500 Grains stated, it is not long for this world. Not since the .375 Weatherby ammo is BACK! If a .375 H&H can't do what you want, then you need to go up the scale to a .416 caliber. I really don't think it calls for that big a jump.

Mr. Atkinson once again has hit the nail on the head. It is very hard to beat a 338 Win mag for any type of hunting period. You can handload them with 300 grain bullets and hunt the bad stuff, down to 160 grainer's for ground hogs LOL. More important you can buy the ammo darn near anyplace or in any state at a reasonable price. It get's my vote!

Go tell Saeed the 375 RUM makes no sense. It is indeed very similar to his 375/404 Saeed.

I like it. Makes great sense. It is better at long range work than the 416's and it is capable of doing more than the 375 H&H at lower pressures.

Some are too timid to care. However, I did my training wheel work on a 378 Wby, so the 375 RUM is a gentler and kinder thing to me.

I have not finished shooting up my factory ammo, and the 300 grain Swift factoty loads at about 2800 fps is indeed good stuff, so I do not have handloads yet, but when I do, it will be for kind and gentle 300 grainers at 2700 fps, no strain, no worries, no problems.

I have a plastic stocked stainless M700 with a 26" barrel from the factory, and a "custom" CZ with a 23" barrel taken off a Winchester: one more chance to show off one of the two pictures I have bothered to put on imagestation.com:



Oh, yes, I have backed the front scope ring back another quarter inch since I took that picture.

[ 12-22-2002, 01:02: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

This past week there was a show on the Outdoor Channel where they were hunting coastal brown bears. The fellow was using a 375 UM with factory loads. He shot a very large bear at something like 120-140 yds(can't recall exact distance) but it absolutely turned the bear arse over tea kettle and he ended up with all four legs sticking up in the air. Quite impressive results. If any of you naysayers doubt the potentcy of this round you should view one of Saeed's video's.

Before you guys use Saeed as the guide on this:
Do a search on his name.

You should find comments, made by him, that the 375 H&H is plenty for just about anything.

He was the one that persuaded me to get a 375, not a Rum.

You see, gun cranks sometimes make stuff up for fun, and, because they did it, they use it. It works well, gives them the results they want, and give them a bit more flexibility then most factory ammo(read drive 300 grain bullets an extra 200 fps).
Not to mention the cool factor, and intrest, that shows you aren't the average multi-millionaire going on Safari from UAE;-)

Best part of his argument was the 6 round capacity
of the CZ, vs. the 3 of the rum.
s

Socrates,

My rifle, pictured above, holds 4 in the magazine and 1 up the spout for a total of 5 in 375 RUM.

The current production M700 or M70 boxes have to be windowed to squeeze in 3 in the box, for 375 RUM.

I just checked and I can indeed get 6 of the 375 H&H rounds into the box of the 375 RUM rifle above, plus one up the spout makes a total load of 7, but the jammed 6th round in the box is too tight to feed reliably from my rifle, so I think I am limited to only 5 in the box and one up the spout, for a total of 6.

6 for the 375 H&H

5 for the 375 RUM, total on board.

Hey, I like them both.

[ 12-24-2002, 00:45: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

I don't see much point in the RUM for hunting in bush.

I do on plains, or bare mountain hunting.

The best argument I've heard is by a Alaskan game guide. He knows that the really big grizzly, and elk, get that way by figuring out that if a guy with a rifle is within 300-400 yards, they might die.

So, the only real benefit to the rum is that for long range shots, at very large animals, in excess of 400 yards, the rum is flater, and hits with more energy, at a distance where that energy drop is fairly large with the H&H.
Of course you pay with recoil, but with a Vias brake, Kick ez superthick pad, and mercury reducers, I'm sure you can get it into the 300 mag range on recoil.

The expense argument makes sense, as well. Plus, you have to get a stronger, more expensive scope, let's say an Elite 4200 vs. the 3200 to stand up to that kind of recoil.

I'm going to have to price rum ammo. 13 bucks for a box of 20??? Kind of wonder, when I pay 25 for Federal 270 grain soft points...

s

Socrates maybe I should clarify part of my earlier post actually now midway has hornady 300 rn bullets for 14 and some change. That is the bullets only 50pieces, not loaded ammunition. Bob Wards has 375ultra ammo with 300gr swift aframes for $50 per 20 rounds of loaded ammunition.

DaggaRon, I have in fact documented works of Saeed sent to me sometime back, concerning the velocity of his 375/404. This gun while having killed many an animal in the wild, had it's ammo slowed down, because he figured out that the extra velocity was NOT in the best interest of the bullets striking game animals. These bullets were being distorted by the extra speed on impact. Now by slowing them down to .375 Weatherby standards near bouts, they did in fact perform much better in his eyes and bullets were not deformed as before.

[ 12-27-2002, 22:48: Message edited by: Chigger ]

Dagga & those interested,

I can get 6 in the mag of my .375 cz but just cant quite get the bolt over the top to allow 6 in mag 1 in the chamber. I may take it to my smith when I get a chance because the bolt only won't clear the 6th round in the mag by a bee's foreskin. Just a tiny bit of the follower or floor plate would mean a 7 shot .375. However I still think a 6 shot .375 is pretty good, hell it holds as many in the mag as my win 94 30/30 did that I traded on my .375

PC,
The CZ box was meant to hold 5 375 H&H. I guess you could manage another cartridge with numerous modifications, but too much trouble for me.

I am very happy with 5, and I consider the 4 that will go into a Pre-64 M70 box a great boon. Sure better than the current 3 in an M70 Classic box.

I will stick together with my .375 Weatherby (custom build on CZ 550 Magnum) instead of the .375 RUM, for several reasons.

First, I believe, that the .375 RUM will not stay that long on the market.

Second, .375 Weatherby Cases are esay to form from .375 Hot&Horny-Brass.

Third, I like the idea, to use .375 H&H Ammo in case, that the .375 Weatherby Ammo is out.

I do not use the .375 Wearherby, to push a 300 grs bullet faster, but I push a 350 or 380 grs bullet at the same velocity, like the .375 H&H a 300 grainer. That�s it !

Hunting Max that is a good theory to push the heavy bullets at the same speed as the H&H push's the 300's. If I owned a .375 hot rod that is exactly what I would use it for.

Daggaron, it would seem I am lucky that I can get 6 down initially. I just would like to be able to close the bolt over the 6 in the mag so as to have a 6 shotter with an empty chamber. But what I did the other day was to put six in feed the 6th of the mag into the chamber and then pull the trigger in and close the bolt. All I had to do when the shooting baegan was to raise and lower my bolt handle.

I was hunting by myself this day.

It has been a long while since I have been on,computer problems! Anyway abput the 375 ultra.I think it is a wonderful caliber! I dont belive Remington will discontinue it in five years! Recoil is a little heavy with 300 grainers but I get some good groups at 200 yds,havent taken any game with it yet but I am sure it will do the trick! Email me if you want specific data!

PC,
I can JAM six into the box of the H&H headsize rifles, but it is just that, a JAM.

It needs a smidgeon more room to function properly with six in the box and one up the spout.

Just load 5 in the magazine box, and throw the sixth in the chamber while pushing the 5 down, and close the bolt while pressing on the extractor with the left hand digit. The extractor then snaps over the 6th cartridge "rim" just like a "real Mauser," then decock and re-cock as you say, or use the safety.

diesel_dude,
I am with you. I think the 375 RUM and 375 WBY are here to stay, right along with the 375 H&H. I need a pair of each of them. The mood of the day will dictate which .375 to use. I will take one only, please of the .375-338 and .378 WBY, for a little variety. Maybe a 375 Dakota too. Hell, they are all good!

[ 12-31-2002, 07:00: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

The .375 H&H is so good in my eyes (even after 11 rounds ) that I could get rid of my 30/06 and just have a pair of .375's each set up for a different load & different application.

I am considering setting up my first .375 with sierra 300 gr .375's because of there high BC's and long ranging capability. If I need a harder bullet than that then I need my .416 loaded with 410 woodleigh's

PC
I'm really glad your so happy with your 375 but I think you should change your practice of putting one up the spout holding the trigger and then closing the action. This is a very bad practice. You'll find that when you do this your firing pin will protrude from the bolt face and with a hard bump you could have a discharge. I had a friend that used that practice until I pulled the shell out of the chamber and he saw a small dent in the primer. Just a safety thing mate.

Cougarhunting,
Where and how often would your rifle be used for Grizzly? With this province on LEH and draws being as hard to get as the correct answer on Mickey's doubles you must go on guided hunts. The 375 H&H is plenty of gun and Grizzly's should be an under 200 yard and perferably under 100 yard affair. Wounding a big bear at long range and having to go into the alders is a lot scarier affair to me than a Buffalo. So like Buffalo you need that shot placement on your first shot. Check your trajectory tables for the 270 grain Barnes X and you'll see it's a pretty flat shooting round.
Take good care and good luck on your hunt,
470 Mbogo

PC,

What is much quicker and 500 times safer is to utilise CRF's advantage, that is, simply don't close the bolt . That to me is the main advantage of CRF since with push feed you need to either chamber the round to extract or open the bolt and hope the round falls back out.

Mike

Just to put the 375's in perspective the following is taken from the new Barnes reloading manual
375 H&H - 24 inch barrel
270 grain XFB bullet
75 grains of IMR 4320 for a velocity of 2802 fps

375 Weatherby - 24 inch barrel
270 grain XFB bullet
75 grains of IMR 4064 for a velocity of 2803 fps

375 Ultra Mag - 26 inch barrel
270 grain XFB bullet
97 grains of H4350 for a velocity of 2905 fps

All of these are the highest velocities shown for each of the prospective cartridges.

The trajectory tables show:
270 grain XFB SD .275 BC .503

2900 fps velocity sighted in for 250 yards
height at 100 yards +2.74
height at 300 yards -3.70

2800 fps velocity sighted in for 250 yards
height at 100 yards +3.01
height at 300 yards -4.01

2900 fps velocity energies @
100 yards 4403 ft.lbs.
300 yards 3323 ft.lbs.

2800 fps velocity energies@
100 yards 4097 ft.lbs.
300 yards 3080 ft.lbs.

So it appears if you get aproximately 50 yards closer your 375 H&H is the same as an Ultra Mag but with less recoil, burns less powder and a 2 inch shorter barrel. The bullet drop difference is so minimal as to not matter.

Take care,
470 Mbogo

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike375:
[QB]PC,

What is much quicker and 500 times safer is to utilise CRF's advantage, that is, simply don't close the bolt . That to me is the main advantage of CRF since with push feed you need to either chamber the round to extract or open the bolt and hope the round falls back out.

Mike I was refering to PC's post. PC was talking about pulling the trigger while closing the bolt on a live round so if he saw something all he had to do was lift and lower the bolt handle to cock the rifle.I'm going to read it again it's getting pretty late here.
Take care,
470 Mbogo

470 Mbogo

[ 12-31-2002, 12:42: Message edited by: 470 Mbogo ]

Mbogo

I mean the bolt is fully pushed forward but the bolt handle has not been turned down. Would that not work in BC.

Mike

Hi Mike
I just edited the post because there was some confusion as to what you were replying to. I thought you were replying to PC closing his bolt post. He wasn't refering to unloading just a carry meathod and I read your post as a carry meathod and not an unloading meathod.If that makes sense.It's back about 9 posts.
470 Mbogo

[ 12-31-2002, 12:49: Message edited by: 470 Mbogo ]

Mbogo,

A very large number of Australians to not carry a rifle loaded (round chambered) with safety on.

What is common is a for round to be pushed into chamber but bolt handle not turned down. This is where CRF is nice, especially if spotlighting as you are in the dark.

In fact I would regard the ideal action as one of those CRFs like Savage that are basically the push feed but with half the counterbore face removed.

I agree with you on PC's method and you are dead right that a primer mark will be left.

Originally Rem 700s use to have the strike protruding beyond the shroud when the pin was let down. This was changed many years ago to meet Australian import requirements.

Mike

I agree with Mbogo, I shoot the 270 grn X in my 375 H&H at around 2700 and they are very flat shooting!

Mike