I is now wun of dose hi-clas peoples wit a dubbel rifel!!!

All kidding aside, I just drove down to Pueblo, CO, and bought one of the Remington .45-70 double rifles. After examining a number of the Spartan shotguns, I was not to sure I'd like the double rifle. Upon seeing it, I bought it.
No, its not fancy, but I think it looks much nicer than the shotguns. The forend does not have tha supposed schnabel on the end. It feels more lively.

For those wanting pics, I'm at work now, but as soon as I get home, I will take pictures and post them.

please post pics

I look forward to a full report when you get a chance to shoot it.

Is there any truth to the rumor that you will be rebarreling to .395/45-70?

Rem Spartan .45-70


decent wood


Note notch for scope mount

Charles, rebarreling to 400/.396NE is a possibility, as is (more likely) a rechamber to one of the slightly longer cases.

Initial thoughts:
Triggers grate, severe overtravel, heavy.
Front sight needs immediate replacement to something useable.
Rear sight would be better if a V.
No directions from Remington on how to adjust barrels.
Handles nicely, better than shotgun.
No unsightly schnabel tip, as said above.
Barrels need to be held open when loading.
Automatic safety has to go.

Thanks for the pictures. I am interested to see how it shoots.

Prof, thanks for your photo efforts. Can't wait to hear from you how it shoots. I bought one from the shop in Pueblo, too, but won't have it until next week.

see if you can get a close-up of the slot in the barrels, on the underside, just ahead of the sling swivels... i think thats the barrel regulation adjustment... it'll be interesting to see how it works and the actual regulation....and what it's regulated for....

Hey guys! If you want to make it something else, ream it for 450#2 Nitro Express. I know a couple of fellows who have done this. They didn't even need to re-regulate the rifle.

I think even Will would say this rifle wouldn't be too heavy for it caliber?

Rusty,

Do you know the operating pressure of the 450-2?

Roger QSL

Surely Rusty is pulling our leg on that one!
45-120 (3-1/4") Sharps Straight is the only way to go for a rechamber.

Might want to leave it alone. There is nothing wrong with a 45-70, is there?

Looks like Max got some decent walnut with good grain layout instead of birch.

Will this thing shoot 410"s?

Roger QSL

Congrats on the pinky ED double

That will be a lot of fun!

How about reaming out to 450 rigby but keep the preasure below 40k psi that should be good for 500 @ 2150 and not too expensive brass and dies. Not classic but hey... its a spartan

If you had to have a rimmed 450 rigby you could use 475 #2 brass

Thanks for the comments, guys. Since I already have my .395 Max, I don't really need (hah, look who's talking about NEED) to rechamber to a much larger case. May do it, but was thinking of one of the .45 basic cases like the -90 or -100.

Jimacat: Will get a pic of the underside of the bbls. By the way, does your beautiful lady have a friend?

Other comments: My hands are small so its quite a reach to the forward trigger. Also the wood is built up right where my hand reaches forward. Might have to take a smidgen of wood off to ease the reach.
On the triggers, anyone know someone who works on Baikals? Might have to ask this question on the double rifle or shotgun forum.

do a google search for "pat laib"... he does trigger work on high end shotguns... he did the triggers on my chapuis DR last year... fantastic job....

The 450 #2 runs ~26,000 CUP according to Any Shot You Want...dunno what that converts to in PSI, though.

Wright has the 450no2 NE 3-1/2" at 13 tons
He's shows 45-70-405 Win/Marlin, no pressure data

450no2NE = 480gr bullet at 2175fps from 28" barrel
45-70-405= 405gr bullet at 1300fps from 26" barrel


Thirteen tons = 26,000PSI

He also shows the Eley data which shows the 450no2 NE 3-1/2" at 13.7 tons with the same bullet, velocity, barrel length, and temperature.

13.7 tons = 27,400PSI


--Tinker

IIRC, the 45-70 runs at ~28,000 psi.

CIP specs 45/70 31908 max PSI.
450#2 3 1/2 40611 max PSI. . .according to QuickLOAD

PWN375 had his Pedersoli 45/70 converted to 450#2. Here is a link to one of the previous threads 45/70 to 450#2

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
Thirteen tons = 26,000PSI

13.7 tons = 27,400PSI


--Tinker

British proofs are in LONG Tons

Keith

Length of thick metal over chamber before 90 degree drop to barrel is 2-5/8". Barrels not as thick as on a Marlin. Rifle weighs less than some Marlin Guide Guns I've handled, or seems that way. I may be wrong, but think the .45-90 may be the longest cartridge for which it can be chambered. If so, might as well just throat out a bit and use it as a .45-"80". Since it can't have "feeding" problems, bullet length becomes a non-player in most instances (not all).

Quick with the flag, slow with the calculator aren't you...

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
British proofs are in LONG Tons
Keith

So to further clarify -- and confuse the matter, the Brit 'long ton' is 2240lbs

2240 x 13.0 = 29,120 PSI
2240 x 13.7 = 30,688 PSI

That's a bunch less that the CIP max, just about 10kPSI buffer there, or about 30+% of Wright's recorded operating pressure.
That's to account for all possible differences in load/bore/groove/chamber/temperature..?
Quite a range.


--Tinker

CAN I ORDER FROM REMINGTON?IF SO HOW MUCH?

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
Quick with the flag, slow with the calculator aren't you...

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
British proofs are in LONG Tons
Keith

So to further clarify -- and confuse the matter, the Brit 'long ton' is 2240lbs

2240 x 13.0 = 29,120 PSI
2240 x 13.7 = 30,688 PSI

That's a bunch less that the CIP max, just about 10kPSI buffer there, or about 30+% of Wright's recorded operating pressure.
That's to account for all possible differences in load/bore/groove/chamber/temperature..?
Quite a range.


--Tinker

Hate to in corn flakes, but the Brit tons is CUP pressure, and is not dirrectly convertable to PSI! Someone is about to get a $900 suprize!
I'll just dig a fox hole and wait!....

There is a big difference between that Remington, and a Pedersoli, I fear! I'd either leave it 45-70, or rebarrel it to a smaller chambering like a 30-30 giveing it a lot more chamber wall to work with!

To add even MORE confusion, according to Alliant the SAAMI limit for the .45-70 is 28,000 CUP = 28,000 psi.

.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
To add even MORE confusion, according to Alliant the SAAMI limit for the .45-70 is 28,000 CUP = 28,000 psi.

.

There are a few cartridges where CUP = PSI, like the 45-70, where 28,000 CUP = 28,000 PSI.
Generally CUP sucks.
CUP should be a thing of the past and piezo psi should be the standard for all pressure data, henceforth!

Rusty was pulling legs. Rusty has recanted the supposed re-chambering of the Baikal 45-70 to 450 NE No.2 3.5", and is now admitting those were Pedersoli hammer doubles.

For all: The British system did not measure chamber pressure, it measured thrust on the breach face. So CUP doesn't compute to PSI and Brit pressure measurements don't compute to either.

JPK

I asked when they were finally available for real, if I could be first on the list.

My dealer called yesterday, and told me he had placed an order for mine with his distributor. Should be $900-950 delivered.

For all:
Breech: the rear part of the bore of a gun
Breach: the act of breaking something

To get the breech thrust in CUP one must breach the integrity of a silly little bit of copper. Yeah, right, really precise absolute standard to describe reality!


CIP in its wisdom has established reality based pressure measurements for many of the old flanged cartridges.

SAAMI and CIP published data are not the same. Here's hoping SAAMI gets on the same page as CIP henceforth.

Here is just a sampling of the CIP pressures to raise some eyebrows.

Transducer method PTmax = maximum average pressure in bar (psi = 14.5x bar):

45-70 Govt: 2200 bar = 31,900 psi
450 NE 3-1/4": 3050 bar = 44,225 psi
450 No2 NE 3-1/2"Eley: 2800 bar = 40,600 psi
450/400 NE 3": 2800 bar = 40,600 psi
450/400 NE 3-1/4": 2950 bar = 42,775 psi

And my thinking of keeping pressures at 28,000 psi seems to be a good idea. I will try the idea of seating bullets out and upping velocity that way, but I am NOT going to try and make a .450/.400 out of it, nor a .458WinMag.
If I need something powerful, out comes the .395 Max.

Enough yapping about pressure lets shoot the dam thing. This thing may shoot like a shotgun.

If it doesn't rain this weekend (range was a sea of mud and large puddles last weekend), I'll be out there. Oh, and have my largest grandson to test some heavy loads I have.

don't do it!! He probably isn't big enough to give you a real test of penetration or expansion, and they might put you in jail for shooting the kid.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
don't do it!! He probably isn't big enough to give you a real test of penetration or expansion, and they might put you in jail for shooting the kid.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

IS, a few years ago, I might have thought of shooting him, but now, nope. He's become a great kid and hunts with me. he also is a Sophomore, playing guard and tackle, on his high school varsity football team! I'd need the .45-70 to stop him!

Thanks for letting us know about your rifle. It looks like a functional and well presented rifle for those who do not want to spend a large sum on a double.