I have my eye on a Remington 700 African Big Game which is very cherry and a beautiful rifle. How does a Remington compare to a CZ or Ruger rifle? The Remington and Ruger are priced about the same but, the CZ is cheaper. However the CZ seems to need a few tweaks to get it up to the same level as a Ruger so, overall cost seems to be about the same as first glance when each rifle has what it needs to go the field.

So, how does the Remington 700 African Big Game model rate against the competition? I would be in the market primarily for a 375 H&H with a 416 Rigby or Remington Magnum being a close second choice.

I should note that I won't be going on Safari but, this rifle is apt to see use on big Bears, Elk, and similar large North American game.

Best Regards,
Sid

oh-no incoming push feed vs. CRF

Well-documented problems with the 700 include extractor and bolt handle breakage and dangerously defective safeties.

Not to say that yours will have those problems, but . . .

Before I would rely on a 700 as a DGR, I would have a Sako-style extractor installed, have a new bolt handle welded on and have the safety replaced with a bolt shroud mounted two or three position model.

I would probably also replace the sights with more robust NECG/Recknagel models.

I'm not bothered by the push feed vs. CRF issue and would have no qualms about using a .375 or .416 caliber 700 with such modifications on DG.

Better yet, however, I would go with the CZ and send it to AHR for their standard modifications - (1) bolt handle straightened and knob filled solid; (2) single stage trigger; and (3) three position bolt shroud safety.

CZ's come with robust sights.

Just as a matter of personal preference, of the three rifles you mention, I like the CZ the best, especially as a DGR. I have never cared much for the Ruger or the Remington.

I think Mrlexma sumed up the needed mods on a Rem 700 quite acurately. I have a switch barrel .458 Ackley set up exactly as he described and I too would have no hesitations to hunt anything in Africa with it. I also had at one time a Safari .458 win mag and its extractor broke as ultimately did the bolt handle. I'd advise you go with the CZ as its a better gun overall IMHO.-Rob

Thank you for the detailed information on the Remington rifles. It sounds like a CZ might turn out to be the better option.

Any Ruger fans lurking out there? Pro's and Con's of the Ruger are still escaping me.

I have both a Ruger and a CZ (NIB) in .458Lott. Had Remingtons in .375RUM and .416Rem. Have a Winchester in .416Rem and a Browning in .375H&H

Sold the Remingtons, hated the .375RUM but the .416 Rem was a sweetheart from the Custom Shop; just had too many big bores.

The Ruger is heavy and comes with a s**t recoil pad and none of the after markets fit, the sights could be better with just a little effort on Rugers part.

The Winchester is a Special Build from their Custom Shop and is very nice.

Both the Ruger and Winchester wear Leupold 1.5-5x 30mm with the Circle Dot illuminated reticle - outstanding scope for fast acquisition in low light - in QR mounts and rings.

Although I don't use it much in the .375H&H, my PG rifle is also a Browning A-Bolt II and I like this design better than any of the others. I'm especially fond of the tang safety, detachable magazine and they shoot great out of the box with little work. Their synthetic stock is well done. I tried to talk Browning into chambering the .416Rem some years ago, but no luck.

Excellent rifle! I have a pair of prized M700's.

I have owned numerous Model 700's and never had any of the above sited failures, not saying they don't happen. The CZ's are a little "gritty" when fresh out of the box but, a lot of functioning in front of the TV will smooth them up. Never owned a Ruger Safari Magnum but, I have shot them and they are very nice but very heavy and expensive. If that 700 just "trips your trigger", go for it. If it were me, I'd buy the CZ. I own a ZKK-602 in .416 Rigby (converted from a .375) and it is a dream to shoot until you exceed 100 grs. of 4831 and then it teaches you to hang on.

I've been looking at the CZ upgrades from American Hunting Rifles (http://www.hunting-rifles.com/CZ/CZowners.htm). CZ upgrade #2 at $1195 appears to hit the sweet spot on the CZ rifles. That would put me over $2K.

It looks like the Remington will be ~$500 cheaper and doesn't need a lot of aftermarket tweaking. With the favorable Remington comments above, I'm seriously considering spending my money.

Thanks for all the assistance so far!

Best Regards,
Sid

I have alot of Remington rifles only one CZ but my CZ is a DG rifle its my 458 Lott.

Can any of those who have personally had the bolt fall off, please post here, with pics if possible.

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by woodmanDan:
oh-no incoming push feed vs. CRF

After doing yet more research, both online and reflecting on my personal experiences with other rifles, it seems like anyone hyper-concerned with the "push feed" versus "controlled round feed" issue would probably be in the market for a double.

I don't know if they are any good or not but, the Blaser double S2 Safari models seem to run ~$8500. With the 375H&H and 3 Nitro Expresses as caliber choices, it would appear that the Blaser S2 is a viable option for anyone wanting that faster second shot.

For general sporting uses, I do have a preference for the "push feed" system because I find it to be smoother in general. My Winchester Model 70 FeatherWeight is among my best production rifles and it is certainly one of the smoothest bolt actions I own. I have had zero failures to feed with this specific Winchester rifle. The few Remington model 700 issues I have had were due to some entry level price cutting decisions Remington made (various JLock issues and bad bolt fit mainly). The Remington higher end "production grade" rifles have all worked very well as long as they didn't have that Jlock abortion in the bolt (which is easily fixed for ~$150). Current production Remington rifles seem to have abandoned the Jlock and have improved overall mass production quality of all rifles, including the Model 700 entry models. I guess their new line is picking up the really cheap end of the market now.

I have a custom shop 700 classic made in 1981. It has always preformed well and I am happy with it. I did notice after reading an article in a magazine about DGR rifles and strengths and weakness of the major brands, that the remington I own suffers from the authors stated difficulty of being difficult to quickly reload without the rounds 'popping' out of the magazine and into the action. As I have never had to reload it under fire--- I had not discovered the problem. I enjoy using the rifle for plains game/ north american hunting but will stick with something heavier and easier to reload for DGR.

If you shoot 4 rounds at Dangerous Game and need a reload to stop the charge, you better have a good Professional Guide backing you up.

Sid,
I started a post back in October about building a .404 Jeffrey on a Mod. 700 action and got lots of good input. Check it out if you haven't seen it.
KH

I took a Remington Custom Shop .375H&H to Zimbabwe in 2006. My experience:

Pros: Extremely accurate, metal well finished, nice laminated stock, smooth feeding, decent iron sights

Cons: Lame excuse for an extractor only lasted 5 days

I've had extractor problems on my .338 Remington 700 SS. Basically became a single shot on a Brown Bear hunt.

I don't understand why anyone would have problems with Remington extractors unless the loads were too hot. Has Remington's quality gone down that far? I have three in 223, -06 and 300RUM and have never had an extraction problem. No bolt handles have fallen off either. These rifles have been used on all kinds of hunts and with all kinds of handloads some that were fairly hot (my elk load in the RUM pushes a 180gr Barnes at 3400fps). That being said, if it were my only rifle on safari, I would opt for the more robust extractor and as with any rifle, shoot the crap out of it before taking it to Africa (Hey, that's half the fun!).

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I don't understand why anyone would have problems with Remington extractors unless the loads were too hot. Has Remington's quality gone down that far?

Well, I was using Remington's own .375H&H ammunition so it was not loaded "too hot", and I also know how to clean and maintain a firearm. The extractor broke because it is a fatally flawed design and a flimsy component.

Just look at a Remington 700 Extractor, its a tiny piece of crap thats easily broken or damaged and its a wonder they last as long as they do. Why do you think that the Sako extractor mod is so popular? Its a major improvement but quite expensive to do.. I've personally had two Rem 700 extractors break and have seen many more. None of my guns has a original Rem extractor in it anymore. IT has absolutely nothing to do with whether the cartridge is hot loaded or not. They break due to metal fatigue and crappy design, because in a Push feed your constantly jamming a cartridge head over the extractor till it snaps over the rim. Guess what, the Mauser design avoids this completely! Good Idea Huh?
Dont get me wrong, I think Remingtons are great guns for the money, they are just not my idea of a DGR.-Rob

Ditto on Rob's words...I have a 458 Lott 700 Titanium and love it,but it has all the mods...I also have the custom CZs,love them too! So,I guess that didn't help a bit?!?! Oh well,Merry Christmas!

I have Kevlar stocked Alaskan model in 375 H&H. Took it to Africa this past August with no problems at all. Fired 200 or so rounds over the previous year to get familiar with it and the only problems I ever had were after about the 5th reload it would occasionaly rip the rim off of the case leaving the case in the chamber which was easily pushed out with a rod. I attribute that more to the stress to the rim in the reloading process. However, I have considered getting the Sako extractor installed.

The rifle shoots great and is a joy to carry. It weighs less than 8 lbs with scope. At the bench it does get your attention but I never felt the recoil shooting at game. I have many rifles but this is probably my favorite.

In big bores I also have a Ruger with the tang safety in 458 WM. Shoots great but it is heavy and not as ergonomicaly pleasing to me but, it will be going with me as well on my next buf hunt.

MMS- Really good point about the Rem extractor tearing rims off and leaving stuck cases. Mine did that to, but they usually start doing that just before the extractor finally breaks. Wonder why? If you shoot it enough, they will always break. -Rob

Guess I'm just lucky!

Also, to add to Rob's post, those little pieces of brass can get behind the extractor and speed up its failure. The pieces can also jam the firing pin and the plunger ejector. Remington's are fine rifles, accurate etc. But I would never hunt dangerous game with one, or for that matter take one on any expensive hunting trip again. Why take the chance with the equipment when there are lots of alternatives out there? Of course all rifles can break, it's not completely unheard of for a Mauser type extractor to break. But it's about 10,000 times more likely a Remington extractor will break.

As for Blacktailer being lucky, I think the problem is more common with the .375H&H, .375 RUM and .416 Remington rifles than the smaller calibers.

Blactailer, If you like your Remington, thats fine, but realize that extractor will eventually break and is a major weakness in the Rem700. Now you know why! You'd be well advised to get it modded for a Sako extractor, or for what that costs, to get a CZ550 and have it slicked up.
Psmith- I had a .300RUM break an extractor so it may also be a function of that tiny marginal extractor trying to deal with larger case heads. Good point!-Rob

The best buy on the market is the CZ.

I own both the Rem 416 and the CZ model 550 458
Lott. I would not get rid of either one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Blactailer, If you like your Remington, thats fine, but realize that extractor will eventually break and is a major weakness in the Rem700. Now you know why! You'd be well advised to get it modded for a Sako extractor, or for what that costs, to get a CZ550 and have it slicked up.
Psmith- I had a .300RUM break an extractor so it may also be a function of that tiny marginal extractor trying to deal with larger case heads. Good point!-Rob

Rob,
That's why my DGR is a pre64 M70 and even that has taken considerable 'smithing to make it right!