I have a Sako 375H&H which i will be using in Australia next week on water buffalo.

I will be keeping 375 for bears,plains game.

I want/need something bigger,how much more recoil does a 458LOTT have over a 416REMMAG???

it's about an even break..

the amount of recoil of the 416 is about the same as the amount of recoil of the lott over the 416.. but it can be loaded down

jeffe

I agree with Jeffe. The Lott kicks about as much harder than the 416 RM as the 416 RM kicks harder than the 375.

I find the 458 WM and 416 RM to kick about equally.

Its not a huge jump up to Lott level recoil.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
I agree with Jeffe. The Lott kicks about as much harder than the 416 RM as the 416 RM kicks harder than the 375.

I find the 458 WM and 416 RM to kick about equally.

Its not a huge jump up to Lott level recoil.

Cheers,
Canuck

I agree with the above but that's not to say the jump from one to the other is equal in terms of actual shooting. I believe the jump from .416 to .458 Lott leaves the majority of shooters behind, if they are honest with themselves. On the other hand, if one finds himself among those who can manage a full throttle .458 Lott, he will likely handle a .50. Just MHO.

In similar rifles I think they are pretty much equal in terms of unpleasantness although the Rigby bothers me a little more because of its faster velocity. The beauty of both is their versatility, a wide range of bullets and loadings, up or down. The Rigby probably has a slight advantage in range and penetration. I also believe both are the upper limits of most shooters' recoil tolerance.

quote:

Originally posted by TOP_PREDATOR:
I have a Sako 375H&H which i will be using in Australia next week on water buffalo.

I will be keeping 375 for bears,plains game.

I want/need something bigger,how much more recoil does a 458LOTT have over a 416REMMAG???

Is there anyone in your neck of the woods with comparable rifles for testing?

quote:

Originally posted by Nickudu:

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
I agree with Jeffe. The Lott kicks about as much harder than the 416 RM as the 416 RM kicks harder than the 375.

I find the 458 WM and 416 RM to kick about equally.

Its not a huge jump up to Lott level recoil.

Cheers,
Canuck

I agree with the above but that's not to say the jump from one to the other is equal in terms of actual shooting. I believe the jump from .416 to .458 Lott leaves the majority of shooters behind, if they are honest with themselves. On the other hand, if one finds himself among those who can manage a full throttle .458 Lott, he will likely handle a .50. Just MHO.

And you are likely correct, Nick. I tend to think in absolutes with recoil in calibres below .50, as I haven't found any of them particularly rude. Dave's 500 A2 has rung my bell a little though...I think they start to accumulate on you when you get over 100 ft-lbs or so.

Cheers,
Canuck

From my own experience, which is trial and conviction so far , as opposed to trial and error , Nick is correct.

Which is a good thing for me, since I have so far spent the money to move up in caliber before trying the bigger bore on for size first.

I don't know where this will end.

Canuck:

quote:

...I think they start to accumulate on you when you get over 100 ft-lbs or so.

Indeed .. but mercifully, for the few shots/seconds involved in an actual kill, it's unlikely to inhibit the chap who has come prepared. You may see this while using the .470 Mbogo on your upcoming buffalo hunt.

I can shoot a 10.5# .404jeffer/.416rem. off the bench, I could not do that w/ the .458Lott. I can fire 40rds of 400gr @ 2200fps w/ little affect other than a tender shoulder. 10rds w/ a 500gr @ 2100fps from the Lott made me a bit light headed. So, .416 is my personal limit.

10.5 is a good weight for a fully loaded, and scoped, lott, imho ... my 550 express "only" weighs 11.25, so it's like 116# of recoil.. but even 2# wouldn't really help!!

anyone can train to recoil...

load to 1900fps with a powder that will go the distance, and shoot a box of shells a week. add a grain every week. or two... you'll soon be at the spec velocity, and won't "care" that you are getting a beating

I think a 416, without scope, should be about 8-8.5, as a carrying rig.!!

then again, on recoil, if you pick it up and decide to shoot it, the KICK is not a variable or a choice, only how well you shoot it.

couple quick tips on recoil
1: PULL back with the left hand, PUSH down with the right
2: turn (close) to the right more than you think
3: INSTANTLY put the sights back on target, this will both help your follow through (prevent you from dropping at let off) and give you something to think about.

NO recoil is any harder than a good punch in the shoulder.

FIRST RULE OF SCOPED HEAVY KICKING RIFLES
mount an UNLOADED rifle every possible way and TRY to touch your head/face to the scope... work at it hard... if you can, get a longer pad. ,,, or bring superglue to the range/field with you.. it will stop the bleeding faster (not joking in the least)

jeffe

Any chance of some pic's??

jeffeosso:

quote:

then again, on recoil, if you pick it up and decide to shoot it, the KICK is not a variable or a choice, only how well you shoot it.

I like that.

then again, on recoil, if you pick it up and decide to shoot it, the KICK is not a variable or a choice, only how well you shoot it.

I bet Jeff would make a good coach.

quote:

Originally posted by Gibbs505:
Any chance of some pic's??

sure enough

Thats quite a range of big bores

Jeffe, that photo makes my mouth water -- damn you!!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:


NO recoil is any harder than a good punch in the shoulder.

FIRST RULE OF SCOPED HEAVY KICKING RIFLES
mount an UNLOADED rifle every possible way and TRY to touch your head/face to the scope... work at it hard... if you can, get a longer pad. ,,, or bring superglue to the range/field with you.. it will stop the bleeding faster (not joking in the least)

jeffe

This is gospel!

Wile I might not be as happy about heavy recoil as Jeffe, he is absolutely right about that no recoil is harder than a punch in the shoulder. My own, and most peoples "fear" for heavy recoil, are often based on experiences with ill-fitting rifles, specially scoped ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Nickudu:
Canuck:

quote:

...I think they start to accumulate on you when you get over 100 ft-lbs or so.

Indeed .. but mercifully, for the few shots/seconds involved in an actual kill, it's unlikely to inhibit the chap who has come prepared. You may see this while using the .470 Mbogo on your upcoming buffalo hunt.

Yep...can't wait. The 470 Mbogo I can shoot more than I can afford. Although it approaches 100 ft-lbs, it is very shootable at the range. I don't "enjoy" prolonged bench sessions, but its a hella lotta fun standing.

Dave's 500 A2 was also enjoyable to shoot standing, but I noticed once while driving home after putting 20 odd rounds through it, that I was having some slight cognitive difficulties. I am not sure if I was drunk on endorphins or slightly concussed. Likely the latter.

My 416 Taylor I can shoot all day, free recoil (ie no hand on the forearm). May be partly from the conditioning from the 470 Mbogo, eh?

mrlexma, Dave E. was kind enough to let me take his 470 Mbogo and 500 A2 for a test drive before I built my own. I wanted an A2 initially, but the range session above helped me decide to go with the 470 Mbogo. So Dave possibly saved me from a "trial and error" situation, as I wanted a boomer I'd be comfortable shooting a lot.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck, you are fortunate to have such a good friend with such an excellent big bore arsenal!

I have been shooting for many years now here in eastern Massachusetts, and have never seen anything on the range, or even heard of anything being fired on the range, bigger than a .375, and those are few and far between.

I sometimes think I must own the only .500 A2 in New England!

For me, the answer ended up being "yes." I have a .416 rem and a .458 win mag, and a .458 lott -- not to mention an old 375H&H.

If you have to choose, what are your most immediate needs? Fill them first... and then get the other rifle a little later, like next month.



Dan

quote:

Canuck, you are fortunate to have such a good friend with such an excellent big bore arsenal!

Truer words have never been spoken. Especially when you consider we live about 1200 kms away from each other.

Big boomers are not that common around my neck of the woods either. 338's are considered cannons. You see the odd 375 but they are rare. I know of a few 416s and a couple 458s, but thats about it.

Cheers,
Canuck