/

Alf,

The 416 Rigby has a lower expansion ratio so the gas gets to do less work.

416 Wby is about 6500 ft pounds and a 416 Rem will do 2450 f/s...about 5300...even 5100 at the standard 2400.

416 Wby has about 27% more energy and powder charge increase is in the 35% to 40% area....depending on powders selected.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
I don't get this cartridge. 375 H&H pretty much works. If it doesn't, you need a bigger rifle, or, the perfect rifle, a double 9.3 X 74 Merkel.
About 7 pounds, hardly any recoil. Just a joy to shoot.
gs

I'm more than willing to buy every Merkel Double rifle that they are willing to sell for the same $895 that the Ruger does.....................DJ

Its pretty easy to get 2500 fps from a 416 remington with a 400 gr bullet,,,,and not have any bad pressure signs . From a 22" barrel.... There seems to be a bunch of hooey comeing from Africa about the 416 Rem......One of the best,, most well balanced cartridges ever invented.......... No doubt defferent rifles will vary ...But I know of a half dozen that are just about ideal wether they have an 18 " barrel or a 25"... A 22" makes a great combination................I think the 375 Ruger will do very well ... ..Wetherby was getting back at Remington for them releasing the 416 Rem just befor Weth got theirs out....And brought the 375 Whby out around the same time as the 375 RUM........Both good rifles but neither controlled feed......The Ruger rifle will probably carry the cartridge until every one discovers its execellent ballistics...........I,m looking fwd to the 20" version..

djpainties:

I think I am with GS here. I am not sure that I really "get" the .375 Ruger either.

I know you can't get a Merkel double in 9.3X74 for $895 but you sure as heck could get a quality 9.3X62 Mauser for less than that. Ruger has essentially taken the .375 H&H and boosted the velocity by 100-200 fps and reduced the rifle weight by two plus pounds! For most guys, recoil is going to be a problem.

The most important thing that the Ruger .375 has going for it are good quality rifles at a very attractive price. It will do all the .375 H&H will do but in a lighter, less expensive rifle but then again, so will the 9.3X62 and the 9.3X62 will do it with a heck of a lot less recoil. Like the .375 RUM, it's like the answer to a question that nobody asked!

It will interesting to see how this all plays out but since the .375 H&H has a 95 year head start, feeds like butter, and is so steeped in history, I don't think it is going away.

Dave

I think the .375 ruger will be just fine.
The alaskan version is likly to put a dent in the sales of the marlin guide gun.
I think the ones who will benifit the most might be the custom rifle makers.
How many guys have good actions, anything will work, Enfields springfields model 70s FNs MK10s.
And to build a rifle on the H&H length case you hafta do a lot of cutting to get them to work.
That of corse adds expense and weakens the action.
If a guy has an old 7mm mag around, (preferably a CRF action), and wants to go to africa or alaska, A new barrel and mabye some work on the rails and he is good to go.
I really like the idea of the .358 version for alaska. Double as a great Elk rifle,(so would the .375 of corse)...tj3006

/

While I like the design of the 375 Ruger as finally Newton has been vindicated I don't see much demand for it.

Now if the shoulder were pushed back some to make a longer neck it would make an interesting 300 and even a 284 magnum. There is a lot more interest in cartridges like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
djpainties:

I think I am with GS here. I am not sure that I really "get" the .375 Ruger either.

The most important thing that the Ruger .375 has going for it are good quality rifles at a very attractive price. It will do all the .375 H&H will do but in a lighter, less expensive rifle
Dave

Dave, Maybe you did get it after all!


I'm a big fan of the 9,3's also, my last rifle I built was a 9,3x62




I also have a 375H&H in the works. As I see it the 375 Ruger will shoot bullets 50grains heavier to the same or higher velocity. I shoot 250gr X's at 2600 to 2650 in my 9,3 - the Ruger should easily do that with 300gr bullets.
The 375 H&H is a grand old round and though the long tapered round feeds well it requires a somewhat rarer long action, cases stretch a bunch, have an unnecessary belt, and it can be a mite finicky in the Accuracy department (I've reloaded for 4 or 5 of them). The 375 Ruger should bring a better case design in a std length action with hopefully more consistant brass -We had an adventure in bad brass with 375 H&H's.

In the end I guess I'm just not in the crowd that says a new round takes something away from the old rounds. I think that there is room for all three...........................DJ

DJ:

That is an absolutely beautiful 9.3. Can you tell me a little about it?

Dave

Overpriced and undermarketed, as well as utterly redundant.

Now that's a recipe for success in the marketplace.

I hate to say this, but I personally GET IT.
The biggest plus is the RIFLE that it can be chambered in.

I owned a CZ H&H. It was a great rifle, but it was too heavy for general hunting. It is a DG rifle chambered for a very versatile cartidge. Had I bought a lighter better handling rifle (better hunting rifle IMO) in the H&H, I probably wouldn't have sold it.

I felt if I needed to carry that much rifle. I might as well have a better DG cartridge and the bullet diameter/weight to go with it. I eventually ended up with a 416 Rigby over a Lott for my someday trip to Africa.

I see the 375 Ruger as a great cartridge for the bigger NA game & Africa and even smaller game in thick, thick country.

I looked at some of the new Ruger Hawkeye rifles at the local gunshop. They are a darn nice rifle. I am not much of a Ruger rifle fan. But those rifles had me thinking.

Let's see, it matches the great old H&H.

It betters the 9.3 in similar rifles. Bigger diameter and higher velocity. Handload some mild loads and you have a 9.3 ballistics if you can get that low safely.


What is there not to like? As popularity grows reloading components will become available.
I do agree that the factory loads are a little expensive. But then I haven't shot many factory loads in a bunch of years.

Will it succeed? Time will tell. But IMO it should.

I've stated this before. A lot of cartridges will do the job that is asked from varmints to DG and everything in between, but it is the rifle IMO that should be the deciding factor.
A rifle that fits and you are comfortable with is much more important than the actual cartridge.

Buy a 30-06 and 375 Ruger in the same rifle and you will be set for any big game hunting you will ever want to hunt. Throw in a matching rifle in a varmint caliber and your set for life. But then that's not what rifle loonies do is it?

IMHO, which is just that, the major impact of the 375 Ruger will be with new BG/DG rifle buyers. I see them choosing it over the 375H&H because of the standard action length and weight. Recoil? Mercury recoil reducer in the butt takes it down to 7 mag levels. I see them buying it over the 338WM because of the increased power in the same size package and recoil levels. It will fly, Ruger has a pretty good track record; and a lot of us are tired of the hassle with the whole belt issue. If it takes off and Hornady is slow with the brass, those interested here could pull a group buy from Jamison in a couple weeks...expecially since Jamison is already gearing up for a run of Newton brass. That is an area where Savage, for instance, could steal a march on the rest of the industry by offering the line of four or five cartridges by April. Despite being overjoyed with my 9,3x62mm, I could see a 358 Ruger or 35 Newton in my future...I got this very nice 1908 Brazilian Obendorf Mauser that is complete, drilled and tapped and Timney trigger already installed. It sits in the gunroom and gives me that "do something cool" look every time I walk by.

As far as 416 Rigby ammunition...I can buy all I want out of the new Natchez catalog for $64.95 The 375 Ruger will be in the $49.95 range.

regards,

Rich NRA Life Member
DRSS
Proud CZ owner and shooter

Thanks Dave, My 9,3x62 is a Pre-64 Winchester, Blackburn bottom metal, Graft-line California English. 22 inch Barrel. It weighs 7.5lbs. I can't wait to hunt it, I didn't get the chance this year. Here's the other side:




My other is a Dakota:



Both shoot Moly'd 250 X's extremely well. I'll have to start using TSX's when my current supply runs out................DJ

this 375 ruger will probably be the great commercial success that the 500/416 was for double rifles.

the uninformed few will rush out to buy it because its new. then get beat up by an underweight rifle and by overpriced ammo costs.

until hornaday actually sets up a loading line for it prices will remain high becaus of the hourly wage of the man who loads them on a hand press just like you do !

and ruger is repeating the mistake winchester made with the 458 ..... be cheap, put it in a standard length action, not a magnum action.

at least if they had, when disappointment sets in you could rechamber it to the real 375.

what does the round really offer that is NEEDED

NOTHING. absolutely nothing .

you can only kill an animal dead. faster velocity or more bullet weight sounds great but it isn't needed. the 375 will do , as it has for many years, a dependable reliable job in the dangerous game fields of the world.

like the 416 rem and others it is a manufacturers ploy to separate you from your money with a lot of hooey and false promise

This will be tricky.........................No doubt in the whitetail woods the opinion that the 375 Ruger is unnecessary may float .But fish the Muddy River down low when the salmon are in and honestly say your 9.3x62 is just as good and gives you the identicle security, I,ve got one and its not nearly as generaly useful as the Ruger will be.........And the Ruger will be so with factory ammo......Speed helps kill , If you don,t think so shoot , a gallon jug of water with a 22 LR and a 220 Swift... Same diameter bullet , simular weight......The 9.3 ,s are nice rifles but even the 64 Bren. is a bit less than the Ruger round .. And the nice light weight will make it hard to leave home when I,m going hunting once I get one>>>>>Do you know how many Rugers have been rebarreled to get some heavier caliber but stay with the nice light reciever..That fed perfectly , was brutally tough ,and didn,t turn into a rust ball after its first bumpy ride in the bottom of a skiff..........Like the 500/416 and the 416 Rem mag.. It will be a perfact round that some English man , did not invent..........We finally get an Alaskan 375........Am I ever looking foward to it........... I just hope they put another lug under the barrel ...Gumboot out....

Well, hanging around my gunsmith, I got to shoot a Merkel double 9.3 X 74. Feels like a 22, will kill an ele, and, it weighed less then 7 pounds. After shooting that, the asst. Gs bought one, with a phone call.

7 grand, but, worth 10.

I can't drop that amount on one right now, but, I can have my 30-06 rebarreled to 9.3 x62, and, I'll have my 375 H&H rebored to 450 Ackley. If that doesn't do it, with a 500 grain SP at 2400 fps, I'm dead...

I'm really glad that that person that failed to send the .416 barrel failed, I scored.

Thanks

GS
PS somebody did a test for penetration, and, exceeding 2400 fps, became bullet dependent, and, faster was NOT better.
Hence 9.3 at about 2300 fps, was near perfect...

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Cut the deck anyway you like it......there's only one way to shoot it.....and that's to buy ammo from Hornady.....no one else makes it and the brass and dies are not available.

In the world I live in, $65 a box of 20 kills a gun!!!

I brought the original post to the back of the thread. I was having a hard time following the point of the discussion.

As to the post. I have a couple 350Rem Mags that work wonderfully. This cartridge is just about dead, but, I don't see having any issue w/ me having affordable premium rounds to shoot for a lifetime. I have a 416Rem that I'd bet my life on. One hell of a cartridge that is on life support, but, I'll never have any issue having affordable cartridges to shoot for the rest of my life. I'm building a 9.3x62 Mauser now. Great cartridge that is absolutely DOA in the US, but, I'll never have any problems with affordable rounds to use.

I don't care what you use, as long as you can get or make brass, have dies, bullets and powder, you can go shoot or hunt. I'll never give up the above cartridges because I can't buy loaded ammo from the local Kittymart at pennies a round. I don't care if factory 375Ruger ammo lists for $65 or 416 anything ammo list for over $100 because I'd rather reload to save money and tailor my rounds. I also am not crying over the 375Ruger being too light and hurting me from recoil because I know this is total BS. There is no way in hell this rifle will be anywhere near the same league as a 8.5 - 9pound 416 or 458. That will kick the snott out of you but they are doeable. Recoil will be no issue for anyone comfortable shooting a bigbore.

THe only thing that would sink this cartridge for me is if the cartridge inherrently has feeding issues or just plain doesn't work. I don't see this happening but I do see this is a great new parent case to wildcat from giving lots of people something new to play with. But, if you only want to shoot a 30-06, then that is cool too.

GVA

Thanks DJ. That is indeed a beautiful rifle. I am so jealous! Mine is just an off-the-rack CZ but it does shoot great. It just seems to love 270 Speer semi-spitzers at about 2350-2400 fps. It doesn't shoot the 286 grain Woodleigh RNSP bullets quite as well so I plan to try the Woodleigh PP's or perhaps the Noslers. Right now, I just don't have any interest in a .375 Ruger because I like this old 9.3 so much!

Have your tried anything other than the Barnes bullets?

Happy New Year.

Dave

DJ how much stuff have you killed with the beauty queen ???

Gumboot, I just finished the 9,3x62 after the last hunting season and I didn't get to hunt long enough this year to bring it out.
My Dakota made a trip to Africa with my freind who traded it too me. He made 22 1 shot kills with the 250gr X bullets.

I shot Noslers, Northforks and Speers in the 9,3's but the Barnes shoot so well I've kinda been in the it's not broke so don't fix it mode. Here is the 1st 3 shot group I fired after I finished the Winchester:




That particular load is pretty mild but others shoot just about as well going a little better faster.
BTW Dave, A CZ 550 9,3x62 was one of the 4 rifles I traded for the Dakota. It shot just about as well and my buddy uses it as his primary hunting rifle since. The CZ's are excellent rifles..................DJ

It's been a couple of days since I checked this thread. Is the 375 Ruger dead yet? With so many fine 9.3 x 62 and 375 H&H rifle floating around, I just can't see it going very far.

Hey, I got one of those pipsqueak 9.3x62's. Ammo for it is available from many more sources than the .375 Ruger.

The first batch of .375 Ruger ammo has yet to hit the shelves of the hinterland.

As surestrike said, some premature expostulatin' going on.

Thanks, Mike.
Good read.

Mike, that's a good write-up.
Thanks for pointing it out.

I just do the forum the odd service so you don't think I am a complete prick

Mike

realguns.com looks like an interesting URL, but who would give out all of that personal information to an unknown entity?

Their point on Ruger/Hornady trying to kill any interest in the new case by refusing to release ammunition and especially brass or reloading dies is a disturbing marketing approach. I would suggest that this is a real opportunity for Jamison and RCBS/Redding, or anyone else trying to steal a march.

Too weird for this early in the year.

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS
Shooting a CZ 416 Rigby and 9,3x62mm...that I CAN buy components for almost anywhere.

/

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
And who pissed all over Scovill that the basis for the 375R case would appear to be the 8x68 case?????????????????????????????????

The original german case was 0.5118 at the rim and 0.5236 at the head pretty damn close to the base and head diameter as postulated in this article posted by Mike.

So was Scovill wrong or was he unfairly shat out right here on AR?

Alf:
I did.
Joe stated head diameter of 0.536" from his chamber cast, and made a drawing with a 0.5300" guess on the head diameter, and admits that he has no idea what the rim is (can't measure on a chamber cast) and is just guessing at the rim diameter shown on the drawing (like Scovill).

Should be right in line with a max brass base diameter spec of .5320".

I sure hope they had sense enough to make the rim the same size as the .375 H&H and the .375 RUM: 0.532".

Joe did show a .375 RUM cartridge fitting into the bolt face of the Hawkeye African.

I think it is a cinch Scovill will be eating crow, probably has used a fair amount of ketchup already.

ALF,

as the chamber at the case head measures 0.536"; too small for the 0.550" Ultra Mag and WSM type cartridges based on the 404 Jeffery. The 375 Ruger has, as Ruger indicates, a case diameter nearly the same diameter as the 375 H&H belt, only without the belt.

I may be wrong about this, but I think Dakota has the right idea on the 375 case. They were smart and used the 404 jeffery to build there 375 Dakota cartrige on. You can build the gun on a standard 7mm magnum action, just open the bolt face. I own a custom 375 Dakota, and it will shoot 300grn horndys 2700fps all day long. I load to 2650, and can get less than 1/2 inch groups at 200yds. If Dakota arms would have put there rifles out in the price range of the Ruger, what do you think the industry of the big three would be today?

quote:

Originally posted by I Hunt Elk:
If Dakota arms would have put there rifles out in the price range of the Ruger, what do you think the industry of the big three would be today?

You mean the big two, don't you?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
I just do the forum the odd service so you don't think I am a complete prick

Mike

It would be nearly impossible for you to provide that much service.

.366torque. I was talking about Ruger, Remington, and CZ American. I guess what I was trying to say is, after reading everything that has been writen and talked about here on the 375 Ruger. That the 375 Dakota is as good if not better then what all the goings on is about the Ruger. Put the 375 Dakota in the Ruger action, and then they might be able to get that 200fps over the 375HH that they want. I just think that it's a damm shame that Dakota won't cut lose with a gun in there cartrige that a working man can aford. I would do that before I would go under or down the road to bankruptsey.

quote:

I just think that it's a damm shame that Dakota won't cut lose with a gun in there cartrige that a working man can aford.

To do that I think Ruger would need to do the counterpart of what Wby did with the Vanguard.

However, I would be prepared to bet that the vast majority of Vanguards are sold in non Wby calibres. In the case of the short Wbys like the 257 it is a snack to make cases from 7mm Rem brass.

In other words I don't think there is much market for a low priced rifle in a calibre with expensive brass and doubly so when the brass can't be made from a cheaper source.

Some might say that the CZ in 416 Rigby would suggest otherwise but things are a bit different I think for a real big banger and in addition I think the CZ in 416 Rigby would be a very small market. Remember these forums are a long way from the real world. In fact AR leaves the impression that the 9.3 X 62, 375 H&H and 404 Jeffery are behind every second bush

Mike

quote:

I would do that before I would go under or down the road to bankruptsey.

Interesting thought.....however I suspect Dakota's problems are/were not totally related to the market but to internal issues of management.

We haven't heard much about them lately BTW....This developement by Ruger/Hornady has to be a negative for them as it seems it might bite a bit of their market even though it's not at all clear that the common ground in market share is large here as it don't appear as though the customer is highly interested in additional velocity over the 375 H&H......ala the apparant demise of the RUM.

Old Joe sure seemed upset that there was no ammo for him to complane about..............He must be a libral,, He spends his hard earned money on a rifle that he knows there is no ammo for ,, Then complains about it They need a gremlin that indacates STUPIDITY!!!!>>>>>>Every one other than RIP should just take a Chill Pill.......He should do what ever he wants ,as He is the proud owner of a nice new rifle..........Its like a Christ mas present under the tree that isn,t wrapped up........It is unbelievable how much ,,,so many people are complaining about 2 top companies that have very good and succesful track records because the ammo isn,t available yet.........Why would you put the 375 Dakota in a ruger action ...Just buy a 375 Ruger .......Much ado about nothing.............................................................................................The stock doesn,t look like it will hold up to over 350 rounds tho..not with that pad on there.............

quote:

ala the apparant demise of the RUM.

I think there were 3 basic problems for the 375 RUM.

Firslty, it would have done better had been available in the standard (not custom shop rifle) M70 and/or CZ.

Secondly, unlike the 378 Wby it does not have the pizazz factor and also unlike the 378 it does not offer 300 Mag velocities. It is still essentially a sub 3000 f/s calibre.

Thirdly, I think any of these calibres with a very small market only survive when rifle and ammo/brass is expensive.

Mike