The Accurate Reloading Forums
Dorleac & Dorleac .500 Jeffery
Dorleac & Dorleac .500 Jeffery
My package finally arrived. I am happy. 10 lbs. 15.5 ozs. 25" Heym barrel, Prechtl Magnum action, 14.75" LOP. Can't wait to get out to the range. Cheers. Chip.
15 July 2015, 04:47
Dan416Wow. Very nice. Let us know how it shoots. Do you have any close up pics? I'd like to see bottom and top.
0351 USMC
15 July 2015, 05:02
RockdocWow
What a cracker.
Look forward to seeing more details and pics.
Congratulations.
Chris
DRSS
15 July 2015, 05:32
boom stickClassy and not gaudy. Bravo!
That may be one of the best looking rifles ever!
DRSS Member
15 July 2015, 10:54
10generationI'm seriously thinking about one of these rifles. Wish there was more info about them on the web to research.
15 July 2015, 12:18
PondoroThat is one serious elephant rifle..
15 July 2015, 19:53
Brandon.GleasonVery classy looking rifle! How many down with that drop mag?
15 July 2015, 21:04
jens poulsenquote:
Originally posted by FFemt5287:
Very classy looking rifle! How many down with that drop mag?
It looks like to have 4+1 capacity.
Very classy rifle indeed. Joel Doleac is a top performer. Very loyal to the classic lines of the pre-war Mauser.
DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway
quote:
Originally posted by jens poulsen:
quote:
Originally posted by FFemt5287:
Very classy looking rifle! How many down with that drop mag?
It looks like to have 4+1 capacity.
Very classy rifle indeed. Joel Doleac is a top performer. Very loyal to the classic lines of the pre-war Mauser.
jens: you are correct....4+1. I had been coveting this rifle for a long time. It had been listed for sale on Dorleac & Dorleac's website for some time. Last year, in November, a couple of my friends and I were in Barcelona on vacation. I saw that Perpignan, France was not that far away.....so we rented a car and headed on up there. Joel could not have been more gracious. After I handled the .500 Jeffery, I found that it fit me like a glove. I justified the purchase by calling it a Christmas present to myself. It has taken all of this time to reach me. Dorleac & Dorleac use Verney Carron as their export agents, who, in turn use Ken at Kebco as their U.S. agent. A picture of me with Joel D. follows....Joel is in the green jacket:
Now you'll have lots of sweet dreams !
Nicely done ,tastfull but ready for business.
17 July 2015, 05:51
ozhunterLovely as expected from such a master.
When loaded, does it balance just forward of the front stock pin?
ChipB,
Great rifle except for the cartridge/chambering choice. No wonder it sat on the shelf so long.
It is beautiful, but needs to be re-barreled to 500 Mbogo. It would then be much more reliable in feed and function.
When are you going to get something more gentle on your shoulder?
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1022351/m/843102621220 July 2015, 07:59
cal pappasPerfect rifle of high quality.
I'm very impressed!
Cal
PS. What is a .500 Mbogo?
_______________________________
Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.comwww.CalPappas.blogspot.com1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
Cal,
It is a 470 Mbogo necked up to .510 caliber and case lengthened to 3".
If the 500 Jeffery has 160 grains capacity H20, the 500 Mbogo is +150 grains,
has better brass, can do all the 500 Jeffery can do, and has no rebated rim or short neck like the 500 Jeffery.
Less feeding issues, more secure grip on the bullet.
Better feed and function, easier 4 + 1.
500 Jeffery and 500 Mbogo: Why I will never own a 500 Jeffery, and besides ...
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1022351/m/8431026212
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
ChipB,
Great rifle except for the cartridge/chambering choice. No wonder it sat on the shelf so long.
It is beautiful, but needs to be re-barreled to 500 Mbogo. It would then be much more reliable in feed and function.
When are you going to get something more gentle on your shoulder?
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1022351/m/8431026212
RIP: I'm a sucker for the classics. If it's not decades old......I probably won't go for it. Thanks, though. Cheers. Chip.
20 July 2015, 17:27
LabmanRIP - Is the 470 Mbogo based on the 416 Rigby case? If so, is it possible to stretch the case to 3" with fireforming? Just curious.
Tom Z
NRA Life Member
quote:
Originally posted by Labman:
RIP - Is the 470 Mbogo based on the 416 Rigby case? If so, is it possible to stretch the case to 3" with fireforming? Just curious.
Yes, 470 Mbogo is based on .416 Rigby basic cylindrical, that starts off longer than the 2.900" max length of the .416 Rigby.
470 Mbogo max length is 2.9450".
The .416 Rigby has a lot of body taper.
If you blow out the body and shoulder and neck it up to 470 Mbogo, it becomes shorter than 2.900".
It gets even shorter if you neck that up to 500 Mbogo.
I would not want to fire that until it stretched out to 3.000".
You have to start with basic cylindrical brass that is 2.945" to start with.
That can be sized down full length and fire-forming-stretched to 2.990" trim-to-length of the 500 Mbogo 3-Inch.
quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Guys...C'mon...the 500 Jeff was DESIGNED to work within the size limits of a standard 98!
Without that rerbated rim, the 500 Jeff would not work in the 98...Feeding problems are the by product of sloppy workmanship and/or lack of knowledge...amply demonstrated on this forum by alomst daily quesions about feeding problems.
Four plus one bottopm metal for the 500 Jeff is offered by yours truly.
This is comparing apples to oranges.. a condition not unknown
And the 500 AR or 500 Bateleur, based on 2.650" and 2.700" shortened Rigby cases respectively,
work even better in a standard M98 Mauser with Wiebe bottom metal designed for the 500 Jeffery.
Simple trigonometry settles that even before the gunsmithing starts
At least Dorleac & Dorleac were smart enough to use a Magnum Mauser 98 action on their misguided masterpiece.
No cartridge bigger than a 404 Jeffery in case head can be perfect in a Mauser 98, whether standard or magnum M98.
There is a whole lot of shoe-horning and hornswoggling going on out there. yes even by Prechtl and Dorleac & Dorleac.
Wiebe 3 + 1 bottom metal for 500 Jeffery, used for a 500 Bateleur M98 FN Mauser:
I could have that rifle rechambered for 500 Jeffery ... The 500 Jeffery reamer will clean up the 500 Bateleur chamber ...
Nah, it will stay as a 500 Bateleur, another cartridge better than the 500 Jeffery.
It is amazing how every time someone posts something about the 500 Jeffery there will be people who tender pictures of all manner of cartridges "better" than the 500 Jeffery and off course all will offer some anecdote as to how it is or is not functional because of it's rebated rim and how it was designed for a standard Mauser Action !
Well here are some facts !
The 500 Jeffery is a 500 Jeffery, Not a Schuler, not anything else ! it is unique with its own dimensions ! more no less !
All of the 24 guns built by Mauser and finished by Leonard , 21 for Jeffery and 3 for George Gibbs were built on SINGLE SQUARE BRIDGE MAGNUM MAUSER actions , not standard Mauser Actions !
All of them were practically identical bar some cosmetic custom changes as for the Jamison Rifle.
All function flawlessly rebated rim and all !
Now we can have all manner of competition in modern form, it matters not !
A Original 500 Jeffery whether marked Jeffery or Gibbs is simply a 500 Jeffery !
21 July 2015, 18:55
MJinesThe .500 Jeffery has been around since 1927. When the .500 Bateleur, .500 AR, .500 Mbogo, et al. have been around for almost 90 years check back in with us.
Mike
Both sides ... so predictable!
On one side, those who despise the 500 Jeffery.
On the other side, those jealous of the perfection of the 500 Mbogo.
I should get a 500 Jeffery just out of respect for an old soldier who can continue limping along for 88 years. "Old but not obsolete," as Arnold says in the latest Terminator.
Yep a quaint, old, odd duck of a cartridge.
A real conversation piece.
Of course I would have sense enough to use a Magnum Mauser.
22 July 2015, 02:24
boom stickI find it quite interesting that the 500 Jeffery was built on magnum actions but had a rebate. Why is this????? I can't see why it was designed with a rebate. I read the 404 Jeffery had a slight rebate during its infancy but ended up being flush with the casehead.
quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
It is amazing how every time someone posts something about the 500 Jeffery there will be people who tender pictures of all manner of cartridges "better" than the 500 Jeffery and off course all will offer some anecdote as to how it is or is not functional because of it's rebated rim and how it was designed for a standard Mauser Action !
Well here are some facts !
The 500 Jeffery is a 500 Jeffery, Not a Schuler, not anything else ! it is unique with its own dimensions ! more no less !
All of the 24 guns built by Mauser and finished by Leonard , 21 for Jeffery and 3 for George Gibbs were built on SINGLE SQUARE BRIDGE MAGNUM MAUSER actions , not standard Mauser Actions !
All of them were practically identical bar some cosmetic custom changes as for the Jamison Rifle.
All function flawlessly rebated rim and all !
Now we can have all manner of competition in modern form, it matters not !
A Original 500 Jeffery whether marked Jeffery or Gibbs is simply a 500 Jeffery !
A little bit presumptuous to assume jealousy on the part of anyone posting here.
A picture is posted of a very nice rendition of a 500 Jeffery / in fact it could have been in any caliber and it will be like: " 500 Jeffery ! yes but........ (fill in the blank ) with its ....... shoulder and it's ......... bullet is better / worse take your pick and BTW I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.
Why not simply enjoy the rifle with it's owner for what it is , share the man's joy in a really nice gun !
I'm sure if he wanted a 500 Mbogo, 500 Centaur killer / 700 overkiller /458 under performer / 470 zoomerbanger/ 416 tank buster etc etc he would have commissioned one..... instead he settled on a 500 Jeffery
Boomstick
They all had rebates ! go look em up, the whole lot ! The Germans and Austrians had a problem with rims for some or other reason everything bigger than 8mm that came from that era were rebated , some worse than others !
22 July 2015, 02:47
MJinesquote:
Originally posted by ALF:
A little bit presumptuous to assume jealousy on the part of anyone posting here.
A picture is posted of a very nice rendition of a 500 Jeffery / in fact it could have been in any caliber and it will be like: " 500 Jeffery ! yes but........ (fill in the blank ) with its ....... shoulder and it's ......... bullet is better / worse take your pick and BTW I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.
Why not simply enjoy the rifle with it's owner for what it is , share the man's joy in a really nice gun !
I'm sure if he wanted a 500 Mbogo, 500 Centaur killer / 700 overkiller /458 under performer / 470 zoomerbanger/ 416 tank buster etc etc he would have commissioned one..... instead he settled on a 500 Jeffery
+1, and the .500 Jeffery he settled on is stunning.
Mike
Alf,
You are certainly no comedian.
22 July 2015, 07:05
boom stickI guess rebated rims were in vogue at the time. So it is a mere coincidence that it will fit in a M98?
quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
Boomstick
They all had rebates ! go look em up, the whole lot ! The Germans and Austrians had a problem with rims for some or other reason everything bigger than 8mm that came from that era were rebated , some worse than others !
Alf wrote:
"... everything bigger than 8mm that came from that era were rebated , some
worse than others !"
So Alf thinks rebates are bad. "Worse" means more bad.
boom stick,
If the 404 Jeffery was ever rebated, I missed that. A rim that is .002" smaller than the head does not count as a rebate.
Rather it is usually swallowed by manufacturing tolerance and head and rim come out the same diameter.
The ugly duckling 500 Jeffery was improved upon long before the 500 Mbogo, 500 AR, or 500 Bateleur.
Harald Wolf's version was a non-rebated one that he used in "500 Jeffery" rifles for the likes of Tony Sanchez-Arino.
Ed Plummer did a non-rebated version and added a longer neck to the 500 Jeffery. Voila: 500 AHR.
22 July 2015, 10:36
Dan416Chip, thanks. You are a patron of the arts. Shot it yet?
RIP et al, I have no thoughts on what is good bad or ugly .
They are what they are and that's how it is.
One can pontificate the issue to death and when it's all done we cannot get away from the fact that there is something boner inducing about a original 425 WR or a 11.2mm rebated rims no less.
22 July 2015, 19:53
customboltCHIPB. Wow! Thanks for sharing the Dorleac & Dorleac with us.
Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
23 July 2015, 03:40
ozhunterHi Duane, with those drop box mags, is the rifle balanced so you can cradle the rifle just forward of the loaded box?
23 July 2015, 14:43
416Tanzanquote:
These attempts at "improvement" all have their drawbacks when one considers the 500 Jeff was designed to fit in a standard 98. All those "improvements" then become a step backward
Although I would call the 500 AccRel Nyati a step forward.
The 500 AccRel Nyati (short throat) can be built on a standard Ruger Hawkeye action, with a little work on the boltface and rails for the Rigby-sized case head.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+
"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
23 July 2015, 17:42
Huviusquote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
I find it quite interesting that the 500 Jeffery was built on magnum actions but had a rebate. Why is this????? I can't see why it was designed with a rebate.
The magnum Mauser action is only "magnum" in the length. It has the same bolt diameter as the standard Mauser '98 so a rebated rim allows maintaining a CRF.
23 July 2015, 17:54
Huviusquote:
Originally posted by ALF:
It is amazing how every time someone posts something about the 500 Jeffery there will be people who tender pictures of all manner of cartridges "better" than the 500 Jeffery and off course all will offer some anecdote as to how it is or is not functional because of it's rebated rim and how it was designed for a standard Mauser Action !
Well here are some facts !
The 500 Jeffery is a 500 Jeffery, Not a Schuler, not anything else ! it is unique with its own dimensions ! more no less !
All of the 24 guns built by Mauser and finished by Leonard , 21 for Jeffery and 3 for George Gibbs were built on SINGLE SQUARE BRIDGE MAGNUM MAUSER actions , not standard Mauser Actions !
All of them were practically identical bar some cosmetic custom changes as for the Jamison Rifle.
All function flawlessly rebated rim and all !
Now we can have all manner of competition in modern form, it matters not !
A Original 500 Jeffery whether marked Jeffery or Gibbs is simply a 500 Jeffery !
I get what you are saying, more or less, except that, when Jeffery made the original rifles, there was any difference between the 500 Schuler and the Jeffery.
In Jeffery's own advertisements they state that they made the rifles to take the powerful 500 cartridge. A cartridge which already existed as the Schuler which was made to fit a standard length action rather than a magnum as the 505 Gibbs had to use. Actually, very few German makers used the magnum actions probably because they adopted flake powder long before the English did.
The fact that Jeffery used magnum length actions for their 500s doesn't mean that the cartridge wasn't designed to fit in a standard action. Same goes for the 404. Jeffery made lots of them on magnums but it was designed to fit a standard action.
23 July 2015, 18:37
gunslinger55Beautiful gun! See you are in PHX maybe I'll get to see it at the range sometime! Congrats. I am a sucker for the classics too. That is much to pretty for my I would mess it up in the field, a work of art!
White Mountains Arizona
23 July 2015, 20:20
ColoradoMattquote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Both sides ... so predictable!
On one side, those who despise the 500 Jeffery.
On the other side, those jealous of the perfection of the 500 Mbogo.
I should get a 500 Jeffery just out of respect for an old soldier who can continue limping along for 88 years. "Old but not obsolete," as Arnold says in the latest Terminator.
Yep a quaint, old, odd duck of a cartridge.
A real conversation piece.
Of course I would have sense enough to use a Magnum Mauser.
I try not to enter these pissing matches, and I rarely use profanity, but... What a complete D!{k! Go troll somewhere else, and leave this guys post about his special rifle alone. A$$hole! Free speech is a good thing, but common respect is usually called for.
Chip, that is a truly beautiful rifle, and I hope it is everything you want it to be!
MATT
Matt
FISH!!
Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:
"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."
