.......I started useing AA2230 in 94 for 350 and 400 gr bullets .........Alot of writers had said te 458 Win mag wouldn,t reach the coveted 2400 fps without primer popping presures ......With the 400 gr X bullet The load I ended up with gave 2380 fps average from my rifle and only had 30 fps variation....I had gone up to an average of 2410 fps for a few years but backed off 1 grain ..I use the same load with Kodiak Bonded Core round nose bullets .....I use fed 215 primers ..........I still shoot about 40 rounds of 458 win brass that has been reloaded up to 15 times ,with full power loads in a max head space chamber ..... and its a higgly piggly assortment of brands and styles ,, execpt PMP .......I think PMP brass is good brass , but its so thick as to almost be a different cartridge ....

I used aa2230 in mine. I also used 450gr bullets. I was at 2300fps some a bit over some a bit under. I was told my results were a bit under the average.
I took both an elephant and a buffalo with mine. My first shot on the buff was right up the tailpipe with an xbullet which nearly came out the front.
Was gonna punch mine out to lott but think she will do as is for the rest of my hunts.
Dean

Not to bad-mouth the Lott but since 2150 fps is so attainable with the 500 gr. bullet, I'm not sure that the Lott does that much more killing for the extra recoil that must be paid.

I was getting 2150 fps with Hornady's recommended load with RL-15 in my last 458 WM. It is just not an issue anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
An article that may be of interest since Phil Shoemaker mentioned Charlie Haley:

What is wrong with the .458?
Not much, states the author, who contends that this calibre is mainly a victim of bad press.
by Charlie Haley
http://www.african-hunter.com/WhatsWrong.htm

-Bob F.

quote:

It was the late Jack Lott, more than anyone else, who uncovered the underlying cause of the .458's erratic performance. He discovered that the manufacturers, in order to try and up the velocities a bit, were putting in a larger amount of powder by compressing the powder charge. Not just compressing either, but placing the powder under hyper-compression and actually 'gluing' the bullet in place to prevent it from being pushed back out again. If such ammunition were to be used while reasonably fresh, all was well. However, after a time the powder began to clump together into a solid mass.

If this is how the pros load ammo I guess I'm OK with being an amature! It's amazing you could compress a load so much you need to GLUE THE BULLET IN!! yet it still works fine as long as you don't let it age too much.

What kind of glue do you guys recommend??

2110fps using H335, 500gr Hornady, 22in bbl M70

gumboot458

Because of the cost of bullets and the number of them I go through I shoot a lot of cast. My latest load is 70gr of X-terminator under a 509gr Hoch cast bullet for 2,153 fps. X-terminator is dense enough that I am still not at 100% loading density. With a jacketed Hornady I would probably be at 100% + or - .

I am going to try X-terminator with 300 to 400 gr jacketed bullets next week. Right now I use H322 and Rem 300 gr jacketed hollow points at 2,650 for my jack rabbit load and would be tickled to go to one powder for all my 458 WM loads. (Yes a 458 with the little HP bullets makes a SPECTACULAR rabbit gun; but that's another story)

I will also try AA2230 along side X-terminator. The manuals all show very favorable pressures with 2230 and 2460 but I read somewhere that, at least in a 223 Rem, that 2230 caused secondary pressure spikes that were out of site! With the expansion ratio.... of a 458 this phenomenon may not be an issue. If I ever get a strain gage set up I will sit down and do the full pressure/velocity work up on the 458 and publish it in one of the magazines.

Right now I have two 458's. The first is a Ruger #1 that weighs just over 9 lb. I haven't cast and measured the chamber but all I can say is that there is something(s) about that barrel that generates very high pressure. (think near starting loads and primers dropping out) So, I put a pre threaded/chambered Lothar Walther barrel cut to 23" on a commercial FN Mauser and have lived happily ever after. This gun also weighs just over 9 lb. It shoots my 300gr loads with no development into about 1.25" for 4 shots and about the same for the 500gr Hoch's.

I have these guns just for the purpose of generating recoil to test the recoil shields I have developed (see Idaho Sharpshooters comments in the Makifej Solid thread pages 3 and 4) However, it has since become my favorite bunny gun and who knows what else? Pigs, deer, elk....Stay tuned.

TMc

..........That was a real good article on the 458 Winchester Magnum ........

.........Thanks tmc .,.. I was out shooting my 458 Lott this evening . and I have a 400 gr bullet going 2500 fps and still have a ways to go I think ... would like @least 50 more fps ,.,.,.,.I get much smaller fireballs from the 25" barrel on the Lott than I do the muzzle broke 19.5" barrel on my 458 Win mag .........

quote:

Originally posted by tonto:
Was gonna punch mine out to lott but think she will do as is for the rest of my hunts.
Dean

If we can save a few 458WM from Ray's lathe, our life has not been in vain.

Good luck with finding a 2150 load the 500gr bullet. I own the CZ American Safri 458 Lott. And I get with the Lott 2280 with the 500 SP and I get 2320 with the Solid 500 gr bullet.

Gumboot,

If your shooting a Lott your will probably be able to use TAC and get quite a few more FPS. The Ramshot powders are really dense.

TMc

...
Will has got it right. 2150fps with a 500gr bullet is a snap!
H-335, or Accurate 2230 will get'r done.

FWIW...

All shot in 23" M70 .458WinMag converted to Lott:

Hornady factory 500grSP Lott - 2298fps.

Remington factory 500grSP Winnies - 1925fps (older ammo from bargain bin, probably no older than early 90s)

Win Mag reload, Hornady 500grSP + 75grH4895 - 2125.

I have also found H4895 to work well with both 500gr and 550gr (2050fps) bullets. The sphericals are just a little easier to get enough in the case, though I haven't had any problems with 4895 pushing bullets out over the course of a year.

TMc

Perhaps I'm the only noob who uses 2400 and 4198 in his .458 WM...I like to use the powders that are easy to get. Working with cast boolits mostly. Though I'm sitting on a good chunk of Winchester factory 510's still.

What's up guys! Just tuned in!

Hey MJines,

With your 65.5gr RL-7 load for you 458 with the 500gr Woodleigh, do you have compression issues? Do you know load density?

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by wonderwolf:
Perhaps I'm the only noob who uses 2400 and 4198 in his .458 WM...I like to use the powders that are easy to get. Working with cast boolits mostly. Though I'm sitting on a good chunk of Winchester factory 510's still.

...................I use 4198 with 300 gro bullets in the Win Mag and up to 350 gr bullets in the Lott ...It is the only powder that I KNOW not Hope will give me 2700 fps with a 300 gr Barnes X bullet from my 19.5 " barrel ...............................................

Kudude,

quote:

Does Gerard make them and could I get them shipped or have an African friend ship them to me?? What soft point?? What solid?? Kudude

In a 458WM use the 400gr HV and the 450gr FN. You will reduce recoil and improve penetration depth and linearity over heavier monos and over round nosed solids. Arrange delivery from one of our USA dealers. I will suggest load data for you if you want that.

400gr HV from Lion




450gr FNs photographed by Andy

81gr vit 540,500gr tsx mc =2186fps 74gr aa2320,500gr tsx mc=2150fps 66gr Rel 7,500gr tsx mc=2136fps. I don't know if I could go higher,I'll have to resume testing sometime when I get my rifle back.I think only the Rel 7 load was not compressed,but cannot remember exactly.The 540,and Rel 7 load were the most accurate.I did not like the aa2320 accuracy.I would also like to try H4895.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Patterson:


Hey MJines,

With your 65.5gr RL-7 load for you 458 with the 500gr Woodleigh, do you have compression issues? Do you know load density?

There is little to no compression. That is one reason I like using RL-7 in the .458 Win Mag. Last week I used 68 grains of RL-7 with 350 grain North Fork SS bullets and was getting 2350 fps and clover leafs at 100 yards. Actually not unpleasant shooting off the bench either.

I have friend that has a 458 Win. And he gets 2125 To 2150Fps With a 500 gr bullet. Myself I get 2280 FPS but I have the CZ American Safri 458 Lott And with solids I get 2320 to 2350 FPS

Thanks MJines!

I'll be trying that load in my rifle when I get it finished!

Mike

Gerard,

I sent you email about dealers in USA.

If 450's are about right for large DG, what weight would you recommend for plains game?? (458 isn't what I'd pick for plains game, but if that is what is in your hands, that is what you use!) Kudude

Kudude,
The 400gr HV is great on plains game. It has more than enough punch for anything up to Eland and, depending on how you zero your scope, you can reach out to distances that would normally be out of range with heavier bullets. Recoil is reduced over the heavies and that improves shooting and shot placement.

Gina will reply to the mail you sent.

......So after deleting my previous post which was a flip out rant .,., And re reading your post Gerard it does now appear that you are stateing that the 400 gr HV in .458 @2400 fps mv is ideal for cape buffalo..... . [ I should hope so if people shoot them with the 404 and 450/400 at a measely 2100 fps if they are lucky ],. Have you tried .400 gr solids ,., or do the 450 gr FN group close enough to the 400 gr HV when driven at the top ,safe and reliable working speed for the 450 gr FN ..??????????????????????

gumboot458,

The 400gr HV and 450gr FN are a good pair for the 458 Win Mag and the Lott/Watts/African Express. You will not use the 450gr FNs at distance and the point of impact difference going over line of sight, to the zero distance, is negligable. As a matter of interest, we have ele on record with the 400gr HV.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
gumboot458,

The 400gr HV and 450gr FN are a good pair for the 458 Win Mag and the Lott/Watts/African Express. You will not use the 450gr FNs at distance and the point of impact difference going over line of sight, to the zero distance, is negligable. As a matter of interest, we have ele on record with the 400gr HV.

I,m putting that in my signature line and call up my Brown Bears arn,t elephants thread on the Alaskan Forum ..........It now seems that even Elephants arn,t Elephants .......