Anyone have a cartridge drawing for the .500 AHR...?

I'd like to compare it to some of the other 50s

I'll try Bitteroot as well but thought I'd give it a shot here first.


Best,
Dave

municion.org has it, but you'll have to convert from metric.
500 AHR

It is basically an improved 500 Jeffery. The improvements being a less rebated rim and a neck which is 0.15" longer. It holds about 20gr to 25gr more water than the 500 A2.

i always suggest people to buy an ammoguide membership

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=469

And brass is only available from Bertram?

The 500 AHR has 148 grains water capacity according the Ammoguide's formula.
For comparison within the same formula,
the 510/505Gibbs has 162,
the 500 Jeffrey has 144,
the 500Mbogo has 139,
the 500A2 has 133,
the 500AccRel has 124,
the 50 sharps 2.5" (antique) has 106 [for comparison only]
the 500MDM (49 cal.) has 115,
the 50 B&M (49 cal.) has 94.

Decide what level of power you intend on shooting.
The 510" cartridges range up to 9000 ftlb levels and more. You may ignore "nominal energy ratings" since those often grossly underestimate the potential in larger bores (except for Weatherby which lists things right at the max; the 416Rigby goes over 6000ftlb without feeling taxed). All the Jeffrey and Gibbs loads in the 6000-7000 ftlb range should be ignored.

If you plan to hunt with a 6500-7100 ftlbs. level, then choose the 500AccRel.
the 500A2 is good for 7500-8000 ftlbs.
the 500Mbogo is good for 7800-8300 ftlbs.
the 500Jeffrey adds a bit more, 8000-8500ftlbs.
the 500AHR would be at home in the 8200-8700ftlb. range.
And a 510/505Gibbs will do 8500-9000, if not more.

None of the above would be over 60k PSI, as far as I can tell. I don't have Quickload, but the loads are within conservative estimates of what shooters have reported when looking for loads that use the capacity of the cartridge within going too high in pressure.

I just went through this process last year. The Mbogo looked awfully nice, it still does, but I decided that I did not want to carry a rifle heavier than my 416Rigby (lighter would be OK) and I didn't think that I wanted 8000ftlbs as my go-to rifle for reedbuck and warthog. My son queried my decision to go with the 500AccRel: "you sure you won't regret that and want something bigger?" I thought about it, and decided, no, 7000 ftlb is fine. We don't shoot elephant, but we sometimes approach buffalo without a PH.

So a 500AccRel is being built as I write. I think of the 500AccRel as the "308 efficiency cartridge" of the .510 bore. It has a 'little' Rigby case head within a 2.65" case length, fitting into standard length actions.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
The 500 AHR has 148 grains water capacity according the Ammoguide's formula.
For comparison within the same formula,
the 510/505Gibbs has 162,
the 500 Jeffrey has 144,
the 500Mbogo has 139,
the 500A2 has 133,
the 500AccRel has 124,
the 50 sharps 2.5" (antique) has 106 [for comparison only]
the 500MDM (49 cal.) has 115,
the 50 B&M (49 cal.) has 94.

I measured some 500 Acc Rel brass from QC - they had 136,5 grs of water capacity (once fired)

Then we have trimmed and fireformed som 416 Rigby brass with fast powder and oatmeal - their capacity was: Norma 416 R : 138 grs , Hornady 416 R : 140 grs water, and a single Lapua case in 338 Lapua had 136 grs H2O capacity... Not bad... So the H2O capacity listed on ammoguide is not accurate - at least not for the 500 Acc Rel

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
The 500 AHR has 148 grains water capacity according the Ammoguide's formula.
For comparison within the same formula,
the 510/505Gibbs has 162,
the 500 Jeffrey has 144,
the 500Mbogo has 139,
the 500A2 has 133,
the 500AccRel has 124,
the 50 sharps 2.5" (antique) has 106 [for comparison only]
the 500MDM (49 cal.) has 115,
the 50 B&M (49 cal.) has 94.

I measured some 500 Acc Rel brass from QC - they had 136,5 grs of water capacity (once fired)

Then we have trimmed and fireformed som 416 Rigby brass with fast powder and oatmeal - their capacity was: Norma 416 R : 138 grs , Hornady 416 R : 140 grs water, and a single Lapua case in 338 Lapua had 136 grs H2O capacity... Not bad... So the H2O capacity listed on ammoguide is not accurate - at least not for the 500 Acc Rel

Agreed, Ammoguide is not an absolute measurement. My 416rigby carries 130 grains H20, but Ammoguide says 122. That is why I used all of the figures from Ammoguide, so that the same formulae would be used on all and a relative comparison could be made.

I don't know what Mike Haas uses for his case capacity, though for relative (how many more grains does a 500 XYZ hold over a 500 ABC) is usually correct -- just the baseline is, well, wrong

And we only need the relative capacities.

This absolute capacity discussion has a way of distracting from the real issue: choosing a hunting calibre in 50:

If hunting with a 6500-7100 ftlb. level, then 500AccRel.
the 500A2 is good for 7500-8000 ftlbs.
the 500Mbogo is good for 7800-8300 ftlbs.
the 500Jeffrey adds a bit more, 8000-8500ftlbs.
the 500AHR would be at home in the 8200-8700 ftlb. range.
And a 510/505Gibbs will do 8500-9000, if not more.

In my cartridge collection the 500 A2 hold 141 gr of water and the 500 AHR holds 164 gr of water, if that helps anyone out. I have been told that the AHR can launch a 570gr Woodleigh at 2560 fps and a 600gr Woodleigh at over 2500 fps without any difficulty. I also measured one of my 458 Lott cases and it holds 104.5 gr of water.

quote:

600gr Woodleigh at over 2500 fps without any difficulty

Well, that 2500fps translates to 8300 ftlbs. and over 2500 means even more foot-pounds. Which supports the table above.

That would be a good and proper reason for choosing the 500AHR.

Yes,
The AmmoGuide case capacities are computer generated by an algorithm that uses only the external measurements of the case,
and whatever other constants that are programmed in to generate the imaginary case capacities.
It is a comparative tool.
Good to show only relatve size differences between cartridge case capacities.
Sort of like Dr. Ken Howell does when he shows the weights of cases calculated as if they were solid brass throughout, with no powder space inside.
A comparison tool.

The actual case capacity of the 500 Mbogo at 2.990" trim-to-length is 155.3 grains of water.

That is with Quality Cartridge brass.

That is one perfect combination of cartridge brass, reloading die, and chamber reamer.

It is why I would never mess with a 500 Jeffery.

Here is what a light load from it does when you shoot a cape buffalo through the heart with it ... I just cannot resist ...







My second 500 Mbogo weighs only 9.5 pounds,
exactly the same as a good .416 Rigby weighs.
Same length, same balance.
Same everything except the hole in the barrel.
Bigger hole in barrel makes a slightly thicker .510-caliber barrel weigh exactly the same as a thinner .416-caliber barrel.
Make them both 23" long.

No screwing with my hard-wired long bolt throw if I pair a .416 Rigby and a 500 Mbogo, and switch between rifles.
Same for .395 Tatanka and 500 Mbogo combo.
All Rigby length.
Just so I keep doing most of my shooting with the Rigby sized actions and don't get stuck on a short action like a .458 B&M.
BTW, the above 500 Mbogo, which performed so flawlessly, is getting improved some more,
with a Wisner coffin floorplate added (which used to belong to member G. Hansen) and also a Timney trigger replacement.
The ribbed box was replaced by a smooth-sided box, re-inforced at the front with steel plate soldered on: Rusty McGee, gunsmith.
A 500 Mbogo with pointy bullets will "shore-nuff" dent and deform the front of the standard sheetmetal box from CZ.

500 Mbogo sure beats a 500 Jeffery.
So does a 500 AHR, but not by so much.

RIP where did you get the straight sided magazine box? I have the ribbed one in my 458 Lott and it won't allow more then four down. I can put a fifth down, but the magazine jams up!

steph123,
I take them out of .458 WinMags that have been converted to other chamberings.
I can usually find a .458 WinMag at lesser price than the other Magnums.
I have been meaning to call CZ-USA and ask if I can buy the ".458W.M." smooth-sided sheetmetal boxes separately.
I get my gunsmith to reinforce the fronts of the boxes.
Making those boxes from scratch should not be too difficult either. Bent sheetmetal.

And that reminds me to start a thread on CZ mag boxes, so as to get the forum thoughts and experiences.
See forthcoming thread: "CZ Magazine Box Flim-Flam".
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