So I have a 375 H&H and was thinking re-bbl. The action was 'parkerized' or something according to the last owner. It is silver and the bbl is still blued. The stock has been changed to a custom that looks amazing.
So I was thinking of new chamberings like 505gibbs and 500 jeffery. I think the Jeffery would be easier conversion but the smiths have a 505 reamer. I think brass is just as much a pain to get. Any other ideas or interesting calibers anybody can think about it would be appreciated.
Not looking for 416 size as I have a Rigby and a 404J.
Thanks

I will vote for the 505 for three reasons.

1. History, romance & nostagalia. Its real.

2. Impressive looks- its a big round. This will turn some heads.

3. The Jeffery is short fat rebated round that was a compromise made to fit a std 98 action. With a magnum mauser 602 there is no reason to compromise on the caliber.

leave it a 375 and buy a PH action .. if it's managable weight as a 375, its going to be a bit light for a 500

i built a 470 mbogo on one of these, its a huge action.

the 505 is going to wind up costing your more to build than buy, a 500 AHR or jeffery would be a better fit .. the 500 A2/510 wells/500 AR is a great choice. 550 mag or express, if you want to avoid a bunch of headaches, other than getting brass

have fun

The .500Jeffery has the advantage of shooting surplus BMG bullets thus taking advantage of the length of the BRNO action.
Other good options are the .500 AccRel, .470 Mbogo, .500 A-2 and of course the .600 Overkill. There are a ton of options it's just making a choice. Rodney.

505 and 510 bullets shouldn't be too bad to get but 550 and 600 might be a stretch. I will look into the 550 mag and 600 OK. Thanks for more ideas.

Since you are open to the biggest bolt gun calibers. There is also the 585AHR that uses 577 bullets. Brass available from AHR. The 600 ok uses 900 gr bullets and those guns Ive seen on the web had muzzle brakes. maybe you could get away without the brake for 585 which uses 750gr. See the "guns we hate thread" for current popular regard for brakes. Both of these require a special single stack magazine.

I guess you know already know the 500 A2 is based on available weatherby 460 brass. Loaded ammo and formed brass is available and pretty reasonable for this class cartridge. I think this would be the lowest cost shooter.

The 505 should be no more or less expensive to build than any other 500 mentioned. And, your smith already has reamers, which means he is both tooled and experienced in building this gun. Now we have excellent (and costly) 600 gr Norma loads and components to reload the same. If you ever want too sell the gun, the 505 has a cult following, unlike any wildcat.

A 602 is a great action for a .600Ok. It out performs the 585AHR and .577 TREX and just about anything else out there and wont cost you any more to build than a 505 Gibbs. BTW 505 Gibbs and 500Jeffery cartridges are very difficult to make to feed easily! I should know! You can always unscrew the muzzel brake from a .600ok if the idea of 50% more recoil appeals to you and you can always load it down to 505Gibbs levels if you want to. Why settle for less?-Rob

How hard is the single stack mag to get parts for? I was looking at easy. 500A2 but no reamer. He had 510 Wells but getting 510 bbls accross the border these days is a pain as they are related to the 50bmg. The 600OK could be fun. I will look at my stock and see if its big enough up front to handle the bbl. I hate breaks but this might need a removable one just in case

I guess my next question is how do I get enough info on the OK to get a reamer and brass and bullets etc. The smith said he would add reamers to his list for nothing but this is pretty specialized. I could still ask. Might start something up here.
Thanks...I think.

.500 A-Square or .470 Mbogo.

I have the 375 H&H, 416 Rem.,& CZ 458 Lott

I like what you say, everyone is allowed an opinion even if it is wrong. So here goes.

I think a normal size, experienced shooter, is going to be disappointing firing a full power 600 Ok, with no brake - Given it is more powerful than the TREX. Just speculation, I have not tried either. The TREX is already a laughing stock. Made to look silly in the UTube videos. The more powerful 600 OK sounds unmanageable without a muzzle break or reducing the loads. If you are reducing the loads, what is the bragging point. The 585 is really big, but there is ALWAYS going to be a bigger gun. Just waiting for the 800 NE only to be followed by the 900NE.

There is the availability of good proven 577 bullets.

If you truly hate muzzle brakes, then you might want to limit your self to rounds that don't require a brake.

Both brass and loading dies for both 585 AHR and 600 OK are available from American Hunting Rifle. They should be able to provide a drawing for a reamer or give you a source. They can build you a complete rifle on the CZ550 (same as 602). If they are willing to help a competitor, they should be able to answer a lot of your 500, 577 & 600 questions. They make a single column magazine. Don't know if they will sell you one though?

One thought, the 600 OK should be a great gun for cast bullets. I saw some loads pictured somewhere on the web.

Since I invented the .600Ok, I know more about it than most internet learners. The std load basically duplicates the .600NE and can be shot without a muzzel brake with little or no issues assuming you know how to shoot a big bore. You can go up or down from there and it will kill anything on this planet! It will launch a 900 gr bullet well over 2450fps if you have the courage to pull the trigger. It was designed SPECIFICALLY to avoid all the issues related to the 585 NYATI. I actually created the 585 AHR from the .600Ok as well as a .499 OK and frankly was not that impressed with either. The reamer can be bought from JGS with an OK from me. Brass is available from Jamison, Horneber and I have a large stock. I'm sure AHR will sell you a SS mag and by the way, you will regret not having one for a .500Jeffery in any event. Bullets are readily available and this is a proven design. To my knowledge there are over 50 .600 OKs in the hands of folks. Just read the horror stories about 500 Jefferys on this site and you deceide where you want to spend your hard earned dollars. AHR has the recipe down for buildiing these guns and personally since your not going to do the work yourself anyway, Id just send a check and rest assured you will get a working gun within a short time.-Rob

PoppaW,

Go with the 500 Jeffery it will be the easiest to make feed regardless of what the internet gurus tell you. If you cannot get .510" barrels Canada, can you get a larger caliber? If not, you may want to go with a 475 Rigby (they are all wildcats).

From a staqgered magazine straight walled cases are an ass ache to make feed, bottle-necked cases are ALWAYS easier. This is simply geometry at work. Be wary of the internet gurus that state the contrary.

ScottS has spoken! As usual he is totally full of SHIT! Where are the PICS of the .458 Win Mag you buldged the barrel on with your Reloads ScottS? Make that up too? Scotts knows alot about ass aches though he used to post under the name AssCLOWN!-Rob

Rob,
I am not sure what your problem is, but you definitely seem to have a problem.

To address this statement.

quote:

Where are the PICS of the .458 Win Mag you buldged the barrel on with your Reloads ScottS

The barrel was not bulged!!! That was just am OBVIOUS JOKE made since YOU insisted the load was GROSSLY dangerous (even though is was several grains below Alliant's max).

Straight walled cases are a BITCH to make feed from a straggered magazine, sorry to break this to you.

Robgunbuilder

Well, sounds like I have stumbled onto 'the' forum for big bore shooting. I am already planning ahead and once I get the bugs out of my 505 Gibbs I was thinking I might try one of AHR's big guns.

Rob, since you designed both the 585 and 600, I wonder if you could post a picture of the two rounds side by side and perhaps elaborate on how the two compare. Or provide a pointer to a good writeup or another thread. There does seem to be a lot of buzz around the 600 OK out there. Has either round made it into any of the reloading manuals yet? Is there a good magazine writeup on the 600?

I would expect the 600 ok need multiple mercury recoil reducers. Reducers squared. Are the 600NE guns built to about 16 -18 lbs?

ScottS= Just another lie that you've been caught at! How Pathetic! If you can remember back two weeks or so( assuming your reading comprehension isnt screwed up by your meds) you will remember I said that your load while over the top could not buldge your barrel. Didnt I? Did you learn that little tidbit about case feeding from the expert gunsmiths on Gansta.com or did you just make it up yourself? Its our job to expose you to
all new members of AR as a moron so that no one makes the mistake of actually believing anything you say! Seems like its working pretty well! I also enjoy it! -Rob

Forebore- I think AHR has those pics on their website. If not I can post em. 500grs did a brief write-up on the .600Ok for African Hunter Mag as I remember and I've been asked by G&A to do one but have not had the time yet. The .600Ok has the benefit of being officially blessed by the BATF as a non- destructive device i.e, a sporting cartridge over .50 caliber. properly headstamped brass is available also. My 1st gun weighed 16lbs and had two mercury recoil reducers and a Vias brake. Number 2 weighs 13lbs and has no mercury recoil reducers, just the same muzzel brake. Its fine to 2250fps with 900gr bullets. At 2450 fps the problem is not the recoil but the torque on your offhand that wants to rip the barrel out of your hand.
I used a 26 inch barrel and folks have built them as light as 8lbs and with 22 inch barrels. Look for SAFARIKIDS POSTS. I think he has three .600OKs now.
One very attractive feature of the .600Ok is it can also shoot 750 gr bullets over 2700fps.
Straight cases just seem to last forever and its
easy to get to feed with a single stack mag. I should add, NEITHER of my guns have the single stack mag and I got the 1st one to feed empty cases upside down from a modified CZ mag box myself. The second one uses a GMA action as I though that would be better but now I believe a CZ550 or 602 is the easiest and most direct as well as cost effective way to go. Straight walled cases are easy to get to feed if you have any mechanical aptitude at all! Not so the .500 Jeffery! I would never again build one without a SS mag period!
The 585/.600Ok as it was originally built was limited to 750 gr bullets and got the same velocities as the .600Ok but required higher pressures. The recoil was sharper as a result and I saw no advantage to it as bullet selection in .585 isnt any better than .600. AHR had enough interest in it though and Ed Plummer went foreward with it and apparantly has sold a few of them. The .499/.600ok can shoot .500S&W bullets
at .220 swift velocities and was invented as a political statement when I lived in KALIFORNIA. Its actually a pretty good 1000yrd cartridge with CNC turned 800gr boreriders. You should build one, you wont be disappointed and the only thing better is the 12GaFH!-Rob

Whatever Rob

You are still full of it if you are stating that when using a staggered magazine a straight walled case is easier to make feed that a case which is bottle necked.

Scotts- Did the guys on GANSTA.com finally help you get your Beowulf unjammed? Yup, I told you if you loaded those cases with the bullets too deep they would not chamber! That big BULGE in the case is a CLUE isnt it! Damn those straight walled cases. It just would not have jammed that way if you had a .458 Socom with a real bottle neck! Did you get Bulged cases confused with a Bulged Chamber? I can understand how that could happen given the dose of Lithium your on as well as all the drug-drug interactions you experience. Seriously, LAY off the ALCOHOL. ITS NOT MIXING WITH YOUR MEDS WELL AT ALL. -Rob

fourbore,

Try the "Find" tab at the top of the thread to search these forums. There's enough archived info to get a very good start on the .600Ok. (no insult intended if you've already searched)

Plus, the evil Genius who invented it lurks right here at AR Big Bores!

[FIND] tab, Cool.

I am going to need a few days (or ++) to look threw all that stuff.

I read that the Norma manual has some 505 loads so I ordered one from Cabela.

Saw a missing drawing of the 600ok deleted or bad link. Cartridge drawings are scarce as hens teeth. I would have though the web would be full of that. Instead its more like full of it.

No pictures on AHR either.

Thanks PWS

I agree with fourbore about information being very scarce about the mighty .600 OK, I know it's powerful but know nothing about any of it's loading potential up or down. Don't even know the dimensions of the cartridge- heck of a way to promote a fine cartridge.

I have the case drawings of course but wont be able to post them till next week as I'm travelling right now. Basically its a .600NE with the rim turned off and a belt added. Designed from day one for High pressure brass designed for 55- 60KPSI loads for the CZ550 action.. Max load is with H414 to 2450fps with a 900 gr bullet. DONT GO THERE WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS BIG BORE EXPERIENCE. Std load is 168 gr of IMR7828 with the 900 gr bullet for 2100fps. Most people find thats more than enough!
With 750 gr bullets and IMR 4350 it will go 2700fps. 1000 gr cast bullets work well with 65 gr of XMP5744 if you want light plinking loads.

AHR has built quite a few guns if you like turnkey and they have been built on M70's , 1917 Enfields, GMAs and mostly on CZ550's and 602's. Original barrels were three groove 1:22 twist special order from Pac-Nor to minimize pressures. Later barrels are 6 groove.
What else can I tell you! Oh yes, a std 900 gr woodleigh soft removed from game like Buff usually winds up 1.5" in diameter and the animal usually DIES. Solids are another story, You wont recover them particularily the FP's that Bridger bullets used to make or the ones I've made.. Same terminal effects.
Recoil is amazingly manageable for most folks up to 2250 fps then it becomes stout! At 2450fps you will have trouble just hanging on.
If you dont believe what I have to say ask Bitterroot at AHR and or ANY of the other owners on this site. As for promoting the cartridge , no offense, but I have other things to do. This is just my Hobby! I'd prefer to let the results speak for themselves.-Rob

Thankyou Rob, was just teasing about the stirring thing. Someday I will have one as I think the .600"Overkill" is the ultimate period. Rodney.

I found this picture on another thread:



This is the 550 based on 505 gibbs and unidentified 577 cartridge. The 577 looks interesting. Anyone know what that is? I dont see any rebate. Would it fit in a CZ550?



EDIT: I found it! This is called the 577 BME. Nice! Same head as 505 so it would work in a Brno 602 or CZ550. Looks plenty big to drive to 577 NE levels and suitable in a rifle without a brake.

I found more, it has same capacity as 577 NE and means same published reload data and available 577 bullets can be used. And can be loaded up to insane levels if desired. This is a belted equal to the 577 NE.

fourbore, you'll want to pm boom stick, Idaho Sharpshooter or Hubel458. They are the parents of the BME.

I found another good picture of the 577 BME.
Belted Magnum Express. Nice name too:

PappaW, Have you some experience with over .375 calibers? I have owned many but none over .510. My 505 Gibb with full power loads gave me a headache every third shot. My 500 Jeffery doesn't. It may be stock design but it isn't because of bullet weight or velocity. Before anything bigger, I would want some serious shooting time with lessor calibers.

Yup I've been shooting everything with a 416 for 7 or so years up here. Deer moose elk. Whatever I have a tag for. Now I just got ahold of the BRNO and I must say Its a pretty neat gun. Holding 5 down. Balance is great and points good too. I have 4 300grNP's here and will go shoot the gun to see how it does and go from there. I expect it will be a sweet shooter. I'm not sure how big a bbl I can fit into the stock thats on it so I may not go 600 and am thinking 500 size again. After I shoot it I will try to get some pics.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you might go to Midway and see the availability of components for 505 Gibbs. Very reasonable brass by Jamison. Coming soon, No632984 RCBS die set for under $200. Bullets SP and FMJ 525 and 600 top brand plus cast bullets. I found reloading data in Barnes No4 and Norma manual.

Also good looking 600 gr cast bullets on the Mt Baldy website.

The 505 is so popular now, it is the basis of wildcats such as the 550 and 577 (mentioned above) due to abundant brass.

This is becoming the next 416 Rigby. By that I remember the 416 Ribgy was just one of those legends you ready about in the Magazines. The 505 looks great and has a lot of romance behind it. Its a perfect design, no rebates, no shorty neck, no belt, plenty of factory ammo and components. More and more every day.


Another thought - my factory 505 rifle has dual cross bolts, dual mercury reducers and relatively wide and thick recoil pad. You may want to re-stock. It might be more cost effective to sell the 602 and buy a new CZ550 in 505 for $3,000. Or keep the 375 and you would have a great lineup of British bolt guns 375, 416 and 505. Does it get any sweeter?

Poppa- Why are you so worried about the barrel channel? Get the right barrel diameter/ profile you want and just fit it to the stock. The tools are inexpensive and easy to use. If you really want to do it right, use lampblack and just keep scraping till the new barrel fits perfectly. It might take a day of your time but otherwise your limiting yourself unnecessarily.-Rob

[URL= ]
A pic of my ugly donor gun, It has a silver finish on the action and needs work. The stock is very nice.

You could do my 585HE. Any gun you can set up to do 505,
for length, you can do my 585.As first pic shows.
I have bunch of reamers, some dies, and cases......
CH4D has couple more dies and is set up to make more.
I'll loan use of reamers for chambering, and anyone
doing one I give a few cases to get started.
Once a few of us are going, Jamison can make a run of cases.
Second pic is of dies, reamers, and part of cases I have.
You can get dies from me or CH4D. Use reamer and return
as I have a guy who can keep them sharpened, for next guy.
I have it in 3 guns, a Big Enfield, a BBK Ultra Mag,
and a Ruger 77. The 602 would do fine, like new CZs.
I'm going to do one in Ruger #1 later on.
Third pic is the Ruger. This cartridge is good for
7000 to 13,000 ft lbs, Loads all tested.Brass will reload
couple dozen times due to it straight belted design.
Case has perfect taper, as they with heavy loads, come out
of chamber with just the weight of the bolt. Ed