I don't care about best, easiest, etc. I don't have the $ for a Granite Mountain or Prectl action.

If you were to build a 404 Jeffery, and the choice was a standard length Mauser or a Springfield 1917/Remington Model 30S action, which would you prefer?

I have a very clean, 1937 stamped VZ-24 action which could be used. But I've seen some nice Remington Model 30S Express rifles which seem to be good or better candidates.

Flame away or give advice. If I had all the money in the world, I'd buy an original, if I wanted to cheap out, I'd just buy a Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger, but I like a bit of history and nostalgia built into a gun.

If you are looking for history and nostalgia the Mauser is the way to go. It was standard practice by Jeffery and others who could not access the magnum length Mauser actions to build their early 404s on the standard M98 action and many of the original Oberndorf Mausers that came from the factory in 10.75x68 guise were opened up by gunsmiths to accommodate the larger 404 cartridge to obtain better performance on dangerous game.

So the 'opening up' of standard length Mausers to accommodate the 404 Jeffery and even in some cases the 416 Rigby was standard practice amongst some of the elite gun-makers of the early 20th Century and thus is historical and with some nostalgia and not just a modern practice brought about through expediency in having to make do with what's available on the market today.

My own Oberndorf Mauser Type A Pattern No 1 now in 404 Jeffery is one of the slickest operating rifles I have ever owned. Charging the magazine and feeding to the chamber is so incredibly smooth. I don't know if this action is as it came from the factory or if polishing the internals has been done at the same time as the conversion to 404; the entire bolt, extractor and magazine feed plate are polished to an almost chrome like finish while the action rails etc are similar except blued. A real pleasure to own and use.

Several of my DG caliber rifles are built on P14 Enfield actions. I believe British gunmakers also used this action when commercial Mausers were unavailable. I find them to be among the slickest working actions available, not excepting Model 70 Winchesters and the highly prized Mannlicher Schoenauers. I have killed elephant, buffalo and rhino with one of them.



The P14 is a longer, more robust action than the military 98 Mauser. It also lacks the Mauser thumb cut, which makes it a stiffer action.

It was originally designed for a 82mm length cartridge, so conversion to an 88mm length cartridge is not a problem. The Dayton Traister conversion unit is available to make it cock on opening. It would be my choice, with the M 1917 Enfield and the Remington 30 tied for a close second.

IMO a 98 Mauser and the .404 were made for each other. Several hundred .404 on Mauser 98 actions were used by game wardens/scouts in Africa for years. The overall length is comparable to the .375 H&H and thousands of 98's have been built in this caliber. The Enfield action is a great action, but it appears very bulky when compared to a 98.
I think that for less money you can get a better looking rifle built on the 98 action.

I am a 98 mauser fan, But after looking at Butch's 416 Rigby/Enfield in the custom rifle section, my vote is for the Enfield!

My 404 J is on a VZ24.

Since the 404 Jeffries is British and the P 14 is British with some American strength built in. And that action is big enough without under cutting the bottom lug the Enfield is the winner IMHO.
Iirc , One African country equipped their wardens and game scouts with 404s on converted P14s.
The P 17 is just the more common 06 version of the P14.

For a commercial action, I would go with the Richardson and Roberts double square bridge action. Which is built to the correct size for the 10.75×73.

Another option is to obtain a Classic Model 70 in 300 RUM. That action converts very easily to 404J.

Excellent choice !
Was once the preferred action by many gunmakers to build 404's and other larger bores on. Many a trade 404 was built on this action !

I had a little takedown Bland 404J on a standard mauser action. Was a lovely little rifle.

I intend to have another made on a standard mauser action, I have most of the components.

Good luck,


Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Another option is to obtain a Classic Model 70 in 300 RUM. That action converts very easily to 404J.

+1 thats the simplest solution.

We built 3...

One on a Montana 1999, one on a M70, and one on a CZ 550...


I like the M 70 the best
Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Another option is to obtain a Classic Model 70 in 300 RUM. That action converts very easily to 404J.

Makes sense as the RUM case is based on the 404J.

Of the actions you listed the p14/M17 Enfield, Rem 30 would be my choice.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Excellent choice !
Was once the preferred action by many gunmakers to build 404's and other larger bores on. Many a trade 404 was built on this action !

It's not clear which action you're referring to.

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Another option is to obtain a Classic Model 70 in 300 RUM. That action converts very easily to 404J.

Makes sense as the RUM case is based on the 404J.

Of the actions you listed the p14/M17 Enfield, Rem 30 would be my choice.

The Model 70 Classic or a 1999 I'm sure would be the easiest, but doesn't have the cachet (for me) of an older action. I saw a Rem Model 30 for sale at a great price and hesitated - my mistake. Someone snapped it up.

I agree, the 1917 is a beast. Lots of metal. I like the dogleg bolt handle for a retro touch, even if it isn't as aesthetically clean as a straight handle.

to muddy the water a bit, my old 505 Gibbs was built on a P14. The top of the front of receiver is so marked.

If you decide the P14 or M17 route, I have actions I likely would sell.

I just saw a Win Model 70 in 300 RUM come up for sale today.

This is my 1917 Enfield in 416 Rigby.






I don't think it is bulky looking.

That is a Beautiful rifle!!! And no, not bulky looking at all.

Either of the two actions you have would be fine for a 404. The VZ24 has good heat treatment and makes a fine big bore. Beware and I repeat beware of other M98s whose heat treatment/ case hardening isn't up to what's needed in a Big Bore. I have seen some .416 Rigbys on M98s that show obvious locking lug set back. There was a reason why the big Magnum actions were developed after all. Given you have a VZ24 I too would go with it. I've built a few .458 win Mags and a .458 Lott on them and they just plain handle more gracefully than a large Magnum action. The 1917 30s is a excellent action too and would probably take less work for a 404 but,I'd keep it for a more powerful cartridge like a 600OK

butchlambert that is a stunning rifle.

Congratulations.

Cheers,

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
butchlambert that is a stunning rifle.

Congratulations.

Cheers,

Chris

No kidding. Beautiful.

Here is one I bought from Champlin's a few years back, 416 Rigby on a P17 Remington action. It is a fine shooter.
http://www.griffinhowe.com/gunpics/davw212320.jpg

That certainly is a very nicely finished 416 Rigby on the M17 action and while I would not describe it as bulky, the M17 or P14 actions generally are a little heavier and often seem heavier stocked than a rifle based on a Mauser action. Then again that is not going to hurt with the punchy 416 Rigby when loaded up.

I'm assuming your 416 holds four down?

Actually, five down! it isn't "svelte" but that's not all bad.

Butch
That is the nicest looking 1917 I've seen. Great craftmanship.

I prefer the Rem 30-S over any standard length Mauser. I love the Mauser but the 404 just needs more room than the standard Mauser action. the best would be a true magnum mauser but they cost more than a Granite MT. Mauser..

The 30-S has lots of room for a 404 or even a 505 Gibbs and It's strong as a vault door.

Butch, that Enfield of yours is truly a beautiful rifle. I call that a true piece of art.

Considering the fact that P14's are always appearing down here for exceptionally good prices, and your finished work of art this would be my first choice action for a big bore thumper.

My 404 Jeff Enfield

404 Jeff Build

I would use a 98 Mauser, like the originals.
They are significantly lighter, easier to handle and plenty strong enough.
Enfields are better for long cartridges like 416, 460, 505.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
This is my 1917 Enfield in 416 Rigby.






I don't think it is bulky looking.

Too bad Remington didn't have a Duane Weibe working for them back in the day. We'd all be coveting pre-64 Model 30's and wondering how to make a sporter out of a M50 Winchester.

maybe the solution to the problem is to neck up the .416 Ruger to .425 and use that in a regular Mauser action.

Austin:

I like yours best. Very nice rifles. Other two are spectacular as well.

Probably be a good cartridge, but after years of wildcats I've found factory cartridges do what I need and can buy ammo when needed.
I do use wildcats in my comp. rifles, but not my hunting rifles.

Austin Hunter, Your rifle looks great and it did what you intended it to do. Nothing better than that!

I'm having my 404 built on a Winchester 1917 Enfield. I should have it sometime in March.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Austin Hunter, Your rifle looks great and it did what you intended it to do. Nothing better than that!

Thanks for the kind words!

IMHO I think your rifle has surpassed the famous Burgess Enfield!

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
My 404 Jeff Enfield

Well, that's my dream. Well done!

My 404 is almost done. Checkering to finish up, and get it and my OM 70 in 450/375 RUM (aka 460 G&A).