So, I have my double now, I want something to use when the weather is crap. I am looking for a all nasty weather Rifle. Ruger makes one. I just have to choose what caliber.

Get the 416. If you want a 375, make it an H&H!

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:
Get the 416. If you want a 375, make it an H&H!

+1

My thoughts exactly.

But then if he wants an allweather Ruger, why not the 375 Ruger.

He's already using the "wrong" 416, why not the "wrong" 375?

Way I see it is he wont want the Ruger as his sig line says "Lifes to short to hunt with an ugly rifle"

If it is for crap weather then a 416 is better against a Grizzly at snowstorm distance than a 375.

If'n I were in Alaska I'd get the 416 Ruger. That is a lot of gun in a great package.

Plan on using 350 TSX (shorter bullet length for shorter case) and getting about 2600fps. You could also try the GSC 330 grainers for a little more speed when they start rolling off the Michigan machine, or the lightweight, tipped CEB's for 3000fps velocity and reach.

The answer to your question is it simply totes the mail better! More power when ya need it. I agree with the 350gr TSX suggestion. I also have had good luck with the TTSX but they are long. I wish Nosler would make a 330-350 grain Accubond for the 416.

I'm not a fan of the Ruger proprietary cartridges but I'll throw in on the 416 vs 375. Very simple. Take a look at the BC's of each caliber's bullets. The 416 starts off just slightly slower than the 375 using 400gr and 300gr bullets respectively. But the ballistic coefficient advantage of the 416 allows the bullet to retain it's speed better down range.

This translates into the 416 being every bit as flat shooting as the 375, at least for all practical purposes. Drop to the 350gr and 270gr bullets and it's even better for the 416. So you end up with a caliber that shoots just as flat but has much more power and frontal area in case you need to STOP Mr. Nasty in the thick stuff.

Downside? A bit more recoil. However, that is easily dealt with by spending a bit more time on the range getting familiar with the rifle. I've always contended that there is really nothing "magic" about the 375. However, because most African countries made it their minimum for hunting DG, it's what the masses gravitate to because the majority of shooters today are only willing to spend the time on the range necessary to master "the minimum" level of power required for the job. It's a mindset really. If the African countries were to go back to the "over .40 cal" minimum as they did for a great many years, the mindset would follow and everyone would be touting how "easy" the 416 is to master and how it is the perfect match between long range effectiveness, stopping power, and manageable recoil.

In short, with the 416, you'll get everything the 375 has to offer, but more of it. The 416 will do everything the 375 can do, but do it with more authority. But you do need to be willing to master the rifle, not let the rifle master you, as there is a bit more recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I'm not a fan of the Ruger proprietary cartridges but I'll throw in on the 416 vs 375. Very simple. Take a look at the BC's of each caliber's bullets. The 416 starts off just slightly slower than the 375 using 400gr and 300gr bullets respectively. But the ballistic coefficient advantage of the 416 allows the bullet to retain it's speed better down range.

This translates into the 416 being every bit as flat shooting as the 375, at least for all practical purposes. Drop to the 350gr and 270gr bullets and it's even better for the 416. So you end up with a caliber that shoots just as flat but has much more power and frontal area in case you need to STOP Mr. Nasty in the thick stuff.

Downside? A bit more recoil. However, that is easily dealt with by spending a bit more time on the range getting familiar with the rifle. I've always contended that there is really nothing "magic" about the 375. However, because most African countries made it their minimum for hunting DG, it's what the masses gravitate to because the majority of shooters today are only willing to spend the time on the range necessary to master "the minimum" level of power required for the job. It's a mindset really. If the African countries were to go back to the "over .40 cal" minimum as they did for a great many years, the mindset would follow and everyone would be touting how "easy" the 416 is to master and how it is the perfect match between long range effectiveness, stopping power, and manageable recoil.

In short, with the 416, you'll get everything the 375 has to offer, but more of it. The 416 will do everything the 375 can do, but do it with more authority. But you do need to be willing to master the rifle, not let the rifle master you, as there is a bit more recoil.

+1

You really want neither. A 375 H&H or 416 Rigby will do as much or more, can be purchased in a quality rifle (like a CZ) ammo is far more available in out of the way places.

Once Ruger stopped making the RSM model, they tossed quality on the scrapheap in favor of getting guns out the door and adding another cartridge to the "does the same as" list.

and now muzzle brakes ?????? Bill must be spinning in his grave.

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:
Get the 416. If you want a 375, make it an H&H!

+2

Ya, I could not decide either so I bought one of each, problem solved, and they are great for the country we both hunt in!

As has been said, the bigger cartridge comes with bigger recoil. Theres no animal in this state that really merits the use of either cartridge and I don't see any value of the 416 over the 375 here.

Yes I have moved up from the 30-06 to the 300 to the 9.3 to the 375 to a .458. No I can't think of a good reason.

I have to agree with Scott. Unless you are making your living guiding for brown bears the 375 is more than enough in this state --- and the 375 Ruger is, in the opinion of many,many Alaskan guides, the best of the breed.

Count me in with Scott and 458Win. If this rifle is going to be primarily used in Alaska and the lower 48, there is nothing here that warrants a .416, even the great bears, most of which are taken with much smaller calibers. Hell, I have a good friend who took a nice polar bear with a 7mm Rem. Mag.

In fact, there is probably nothing that merits anything bigger in a bolt rifle than a .338. I am a big fan of the .338 Ruger Compact Magnum but it you must shoot longer than a .338 Win Mag is plenty. If you MUST go bigger or plan a trip to Africa, the 9,3X62 is a dandy and so is the .375 Ruger.

I did state the majority would advocate for the minimum, did I not?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

it's what the masses gravitate to because the majority of shooters today are only willing to spend the time on the range necessary to master "the minimum" level of power required for the job.

Todd:

I have to disagree. I love the big bores and have spent plenty of time on the range. However, even I have to admit that some of the smaller calibers are much easier to shoot because they generate much less recoil and they make up into much more portable rifles. Michael and Jeff preached about shorter, lighter, handier rifles and I didn't understand until I picked up my little .338 RCM. With it's 20 inch barrel, it was a revelation and to be honest, I think it will take anything in NA.

The same is true for the .375 H&H. I was a huge fan of the H&H. I had a Ruger Safari Magnum in that caliber but it was really HEAVY. So it got sold and I got sold on the 9,3X62. I have a CZ in that caliber as well as a nice light Blaser R93. Much easier to carry and shoot than the .375.

I have a nice .416 Rigby but I ever get the chance to head off to Africa and elephant is not on the list, I will take one of the 9,3s and my 500/.416.

Michael's B&M cartridges and Jeff's 500 AR give you the best of both world.

quote:

Originally posted by pigmaster:
You really want neither. A 375 H&H or 416 Rigby will do as much or more, can be purchased in a quality rifle (like a CZ) ammo is far more available in out of the way places.

Once Ruger stopped making the RSM model, they tossed quality on the scrapheap in favor of getting guns out the door and adding another cartridge to the "does the same as" list.

and now muzzle brakes ?????? Bill must be spinning in his grave.

I wasn't going to chime in here, but since someone else said what I was thinking, thought I would throw my support here.

Maybe the Ruger proprietary cartridges will survive and do well, but I doubt the resell value and ammo availability will ever be there. And the "short-action" argument just isn't credible enough to make me go outside a classic caliber now that my old age wisdom is settling in.

Go with the .416, more impressive-looking business end -

It seems by my count the majority advocate for the larger rifle. A few of the majority seem to be Alaskan but never the less, the majority voted for the 416.

Spending the time to familiarize yourself with a new and heavy recoiling rifle isn't always feasable in AK. Weather for certain times of the year isn't conducive to recreational shooting and with limited daylight for months of the year we just don't get to pop by the range or tundra after work.

I've hunted a few big game animals while here and I'm under the impression that Mr Shoemaker quite a few more than me and it appears that neither of us feel under gunned with sub 40 cal rifles. The honorable Mr Gumboot of AR fame once very eloquently noted that "//////;;;;;;;;Brown Bears aren,t Elephants![[[[[[[[" and he was quite right. None of these north american game species are and there is no real need to use elephant size rifles while hunting them. Want to? Fine. Need to? No.

I plan to fly out to the coast with the missus for Mothers Day for a week of camping, beach combing and waterfowl hunting. Bears in the area run in the 8-9' range and I doubt I'll bring anything larger than my 36 cal, (9.3x 62) along with me. The 375 and larger rifles can stay in the rack for the week.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by pigmaster:
You really want neither. A 375 H&H or 416 Rigby will do as much or more, can be purchased in a quality rifle (like a CZ) ammo is far more available in out of the way places.

Once Ruger stopped making the RSM model, they tossed quality on the scrapheap in favor of getting guns out the door and adding another cartridge to the "does the same as" list.

and now muzzle brakes ?????? Bill must be spinning in his grave.

I wasn't going to chime in here, but since someone else said what I was thinking, thought I would throw my support here.

Maybe the Ruger proprietary cartridges will survive and do well, but I doubt the resell value and ammo availability will ever be there. And the "short-action" argument just isn't credible enough to make me go outside a classic caliber now that my old age wisdom is settling in.

Mike, I think both the .375 and .416 Ruger are here to stay. Great cartridges. Is the .416 Ruger swell enough to make me trade off my .416 Rigby....well, no. However, if I was looking for a .416, it would be the Ruger.

And to pigmaster who says once Ruger stopped making the RSM they tossed out quality I say

I bought a Rem XCR II in 375 H&H for my brown bear hunt. After some gunsmith work (on a new gun!)it worked and still works great. If I had to do it again I'd have bought a 375 Ruger Alaskan.

That being said, if you don't need a rifle to sit out in the rain for 10 days, CZ makes one hell of a rifle for a couple of hundred dollars more in 375 H&H, 416 Rigby and 458 Lott.

quote:

It seems by my count the majority advocate for the larger rifle. A few of the majority seem to be Alaskan but never the less, the majority voted for the 416.

Spending the time to familiarize yourself with a new and heavy recoiling rifle isn't always feasable in AK.

Scott I'd never fired a rifle larger than .35 caliber until the summer of 2010. In about a 7 week timespan I fired a .375 Ruger, a .375 H&H, a .416 B&M, two .458 B&Ms, a .50 B&M SS, and a .50 B&M along with a few other rifle calibers - My two favorite were the .416 B&M and the .50 B&M. Recoil wise, I didn't find the .416 B&M to worse than the .375 Ruger or the .375 H&H and weight wise the .416 B&M weighed about the same as the .375 Ruger and both were slightly less than the .375 H&H.

I did notice an increase in recoil with the .458 B&Ms (slightly greater case capacity than the .458 Winchester) and surprisingly not much more recoil with the .50 B&M.

I can truly say that the worst recoiling firearm that I've fired was a single shot H&R 12 gauge shotgun with duck loads and that was as a young teenager; to smart to do it as an adult. 2nd place was taken by an '03 Springfield in 30-06 which pounded my shoulder and check bone due to an ill fitting stock.

I believe recoil wise when discussing caliber size we mentally sc..w ourselves before we've fired a single shot.

But, to each there own...

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
It seems by my count the majority advocate for the larger rifle. A few of the majority seem to be Alaskan but never the less, the majority voted for the 416.

That's because you asked on the big bore forum and half of these guys think that anything under .50 is a small bore.

quote:

That's because you asked on the big bore forum and half of these guys think that anything under .50 is a small bore.

Heck we've some that think anything under .600 caliber is a small bore!

The 375 H&H and 416 Rigby will be around long after the Ruger "shorties" have joined the SAUMs, 5mm RF, 22 Velo Dog and other "great ideas".

Funny how we never hear much about the 300 and 338 RCMs anymore.

To compare anything Ruger is cranking out now to a RSM either shows you don't/never own/ed the former or you're the guy who prefers a Mossberg to a Model 12.

And now muzzle brakes ..... the guides and PHs will just think that's peachy keen !

Either 385 or 416 is just fine. If the recoil is an issue, load the lighter bullet available for the 416 and you'll be finre - unless you're shooting at 300+ yards. (and why would you?)

The 375 Ruger is a great cartridge, and so is the H&H. 416 Ruger -I've heard of some problems with the feeding, but kind of discount that rumor. I do know the 416 Rigby is both accurate and formidable. Question might be if you need that incremental increase in energy. Your call !!

Mostly I'd look at the features of the indivicual rifle rather than the choice of Ruger vs. H&H or Rigby. The one that has the fit and finish you want is the best choice.

quote:

Originally posted by pigmaster:
The 375 H&H and 416 Rigby will be around long after the Ruger "shorties" have joined the SAUMs, 5mm RF, 22 Velo Dog and other "great ideas".

Funny how we never hear much about the 300 and 338 RCMs anymore.

To compare anything Ruger is cranking out now to a RSM either shows you don't/never own/ed the former or you're the guy who prefers a Mossberg to a Model 12.

And now muzzle brakes ..... the guides and PHs will just think that's peachy keen !

I see the worthless lying POS Larry Root is back. Pigmaster? Larry at least your ever changing handles are coming closer to reflecting what you really are. GO AWAY LARRY

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskaman11:
So, I have my double now, I want something to use when the weather is crap. I am looking for a all nasty weather Rifle. Ruger makes one. I just have to choose what caliber.

Which rifle are you talking about? The Alaskan is no longer made, and the Guide gun is only available up to .375. Am I missing one??

Although Ruger does not call a rifle the "Alaskan" , the "Guide" rifle is basically the same gun with an added muzzle brake ( which is easy to unscrew and replace with the addition cap they include) and a laminated - rather than Hogue - stock. That too is easy to replace or remodel with a wood rasp if you desire.
Although the stainless steel "guide rifle" is currently not offered in the 416 Ruger they assured me at SHOT that it was an "oversight" and it will be available by this fall.
I did receive one of the blued steel and walnut 416 Ruger "African" models and it is pretty light and lively and well balanced. I am hoping the two factory cross bolt hold it together - but have another canoe paddle stock just in case.

Alaskaman11,

The .416 Ruger Alaskan rifle with the Hogue synthetic stock can still be found NIB via the Internet.

Regarding caliber - Winchester originally touted the .338 WinMag as the ultimate Alaskan cartridge/caliber. And it works very well in that role but many hunters found out that the .375 H&H - yes the so called 'all around African cartridge/caliber' shot just as flat and hit bears harder than the .338 WinMag. Others identified that the .458 WinMag - definitely an African DG cartridge/caliber hit even harder and by using lighter weight bullets the combo would shoot almost as flat as the .338WinMag or .375 H&H, at least to a reasonable distance, and the lighter weight bullets reduced recoil as well. Of course the arguments abounded that bears weren't African DG and use of the African cartridges/calibers was 'overkill'.

Myself I don't understand how overkill can apply to an animal that can easily outrun the fastest human beings and that can shred a human body in seconds - but then I'm not a bear lover so if I'm hunting bears especially Alaskan bears I'll be using the largest caliber rifle that I own that I can accurately shoot 'cause I prefer to return home in no worse condition than I left in.

Now we have an argument that a .416 Ruger is 'to large' a cartridge/caliber for Alaskan bears 'cause the .375 caliber is sufficiently large and does such a good job...basically the same argument all over again between the .338 WinMag and the .375 H&H just moved up slightly in caliber range. The larger .416 caliber cartridge will hit the bears harder and the cartridge/rifle combination will be just as accurate as the .338 or .375 caliber cartridge/rifle combination.

And least we forget, the reason the .416 Rigby and .404 Jeffery were/are so popular in Africa is that they shoot as flat as the smaller .375 caliber cartridges for use against larger plains game animals plus they deliver a punch approaching the .458 caliber cartridges against DG animals at close range that the .375 caliber cartridges lack.

Just remember that its the rare mass produced rifle that is extremely accurate right out of the box, i.e., before the barreled action is properly bedded in the stock, the rifle properly weatherized for the intended hunting environment, and the most accurate loading for the rifle developed.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

If they actually produce, I'll believe it then. Not that I think they are dishonest or anything, it's just that intentions sometimes get derailed.
If they do produce it I will have to decide if I want to buy one, or put the money to a custom lever action in the same caliber. Choices, choices.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Although Ruger does not call a rifle the "Alaskan" , the "Guide" rifle is basically the same gun with an added muzzle brake ( which is easy to unscrew and replace with the addition cap they include) and a laminated - rather than Hogue - stock. That too is easy to replace or remodel with a wood rasp if you desire.
Although the stainless steel "guide rifle" is currently not offered in the 416 Ruger they assured me at SHOT that it was an "oversight" and it will be available by this fall.
I did receive one of the blued steel and walnut 416 Ruger "African" models and it is pretty light and lively and well balanced. I am hoping the two factory cross bolt hold it together - but have another canoe paddle stock just in case.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
If they actually produce, I'll believe it then. Not that I think they are dishonest or anything, it's just that intentions sometimes get derailed.
If they do produce it I will have to decide if I want to buy one, or put the money to a custom lever action in the same caliber. Choices, choices.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Although Ruger does not call a rifle the "Alaskan" , the "Guide" rifle is basically the same gun with an added muzzle brake ( which is easy to unscrew and replace with the addition cap they include) and a laminated - rather than Hogue - stock. That too is easy to replace or remodel with a wood rasp if you desire.
Although the stainless steel "guide rifle" is currently not offered in the 416 Ruger they assured me at SHOT that it was an "oversight" and it will be available by this fall.
I did receive one of the blued steel and walnut 416 Ruger "African" models and it is pretty light and lively and well balanced. I am hoping the two factory cross bolt hold it together - but have another canoe paddle stock just in case.

Frank,

Ruger's entire production was sold out early last year and with their 2013 introduction of the revised African model including the .416 Ruger in a wood stock (finally) and their realignment from synthetic stocked Alaskan gun to wood-laminate stocked Guide gun I do believe that they did just have a production scheduling error regarding the .416 Guide gun rather than a company decision to discontinue the .416 Ruger except in the African model. But that's my personal opinion only...

quote:

Originally posted by pigmaster:
The 375 H&H and 416 Rigby will be around long after the Ruger "shorties" have joined the SAUMs, 5mm RF, 22 Velo Dog and other "great ideas".

Funny how we never hear much about the 300 and 338 RCMs anymore.

To compare anything Ruger is cranking out now to a RSM either shows you don't/never own/ed the former or you're the guy who prefers a Mossberg to a Model 12.

And now muzzle brakes ..... the guides and PHs will just think that's peachy keen !

Keep telling yourself that the .375 and .416 Ruger are dead and yes, I have owned a .375 RSM. It was indeed a good gun but I didn't want to carry around a .375 that weighted the same as an anvil. I have had a bunch of Rugers and I think they are fine guns. You shoot what makes sense to you.

My latest acquisition is a sweet little .338 RCM with a 20 inch barrel. Will the RCMs die? I don't know but I love the gun and cartridge and don't see myself going back to a .338 Win Mag ever again.

quote:

Originally posted by pigmaster:
The 375 H&H and 416 Rigby will be around long after the Ruger "shorties" have joined the SAUMs, 5mm RF, 22 Velo Dog and other "great ideas".

Funny how we never hear much about the 300 and 338 RCMs anymore.

And now muzzle brakes ..... the guides and PHs will just think that's peachy keen !

Recoil is rarely noticed in the hunting fields unless the shooter has developed a flinch from the shooting from the bench, the muzzle break helps eliminate developing a flinch due to shooting from the bench. Remove the muzzle break and install the included thread cap for hunting - a 'no brainer' for most folks.

The RCMs easily match the performance of the SAUMs in a smaller diameter case so they'll be around for anyone wanting to exceed the performance of the longer '06 based equivalent cartridge in a short light package.

Remington didn't support the SAUMs which is why they've somewhat died - performance wise they didn't match the WSM line of short compact magnum performance cartridges so no more factory loading. Nosler however is providing both brass and loaded ammunition so the SAUMs aren't dead yet.

I notice you didn't mention the WSMs - likely cause they're doing great and meet their performance goal of matching Winchester's line of 2.5" belted magnum cartridge performance in a short compact cartridge. And I doubt they're going away anytime soon because they did hit their performance mark cartridge wise in a more compact and lighter weight rifle package.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by pigmaster:
The 375 H&H and 416 Rigby will be around long after the Ruger "shorties" have joined the SAUMs, 5mm RF, 22 Velo Dog and other "great ideas".

Funny how we never hear much about the 300 and 338 RCMs anymore.

To compare anything Ruger is cranking out now to a RSM either shows you don't/never own/ed the former or you're the guy who prefers a Mossberg to a Model 12.

And now muzzle brakes ..... the guides and PHs will just think that's peachy keen !

I see the worthless lying POS Larry Root is back. Pigmaster? Larry at least your ever changing handles are coming closer to reflecting what you really are. GO AWAY LARRY

nobody is "worthless" and we all have lied at one time or another.

As I have been admonished many times before by the moderators on this forum, if you don't like what someone writes, don't read it.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

Myself I don't understand how overkill can apply to an animal that can easily outrun the fastest human beings and that can shred a human body in seconds - but then I'm not a bear lover so if I'm hunting bears especially Alaskan bears I'll be using the largest caliber rifle that I own that I can accurately shoot 'cause I prefer to return home in no worse condition than I left in.

If this is true then why stop at a .458 win?

A 378 should deliver nicely, a 450 Rigby or the 460 weatherby the same. The 12ga from Hell, the 6 or 700 Nitro,......

We can drive this topic into internet hysteria but it it won't change the bears or moose and what is a very good firearm to take them with.

If you don't feel safe without a bazooka by all means,...........

Boggles the mind why Lawrence Root (pigmaster/bumfarto/4barexpert/silverbullet/ 45-70shooter/artshaw, etc, ect...) feels compelled to continually circumvent the wishes of the Moderators, Admin. and/or Owner for him to be gone from a web sight where he is neither welcomed nor wanted.

Rather pathetic.

quote:

Originally posted by Moderator GeorgeS:
bumfarto/4barexpert/silverbullet45/artshaw/45-70 shooter,


Why do you keep registering here? You've been removed repeatedly.

Take the hint - you are not welcome here.

George

The only reason I put the 416 Ruger over the 375 Ruger is a bit of big bore envy and in a handy all weather factory gun, it stands pretty much alone.

Alaskaman, I was considering one, but it is much easier to find 375 bullets than 416 if you're reloading here at the end of the logistics chain. Not saying you can't get them, just that 375s are always available.

In the end, I blew off both and I'm costing myself a lot more money having a .375 H&H built on a Mark X action. It won't do anything the .375 Ruger Alaskan/Guide won't do except look a little nicer.

If you don't have any burning preferences, you can't go wrong taking Mr. Phil/458Win's advice.

quote:

Originally posted by silvertip1:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by pigmaster:
The 375 H&H and 416 Rigby will be around long after the Ruger "shorties" have joined the SAUMs, 5mm RF, 22 Velo Dog and other "great ideas".

Funny how we never hear much about the 300 and 338 RCMs anymore.

To compare anything Ruger is cranking out now to a RSM either shows you don't/never own/ed the former or you're the guy who prefers a Mossberg to a Model 12.

And now muzzle brakes ..... the guides and PHs will just think that's peachy keen !

I see the worthless lying POS Larry Root is back. Pigmaster? Larry at least your ever changing handles are coming closer to reflecting what you really are. GO AWAY LARRY

nobody is "worthless" and we all have lied at one time or another.

As I have been admonished many times before by the moderators on this forum, if you don't like what someone writes, don't read it.

And here is "Pigmaster" under his other handle. Moderators, isn't there a RULE about multiple logons?

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
And here is "Pigmaster" under his other handle. Moderators, isn't there a RULE about multiple logons?

Jorge,

No, silvertip1 is Kevin aka. "22WRF", not Larry Root.