I have to confess I have always been puzzled as to why the various .375's (Ruger, Remington, H&H, etc.) wound up in the big bore forum. Does anyone feel as I do that it's time to move the .375's over to the medium bore forum where they belong?

Dave

Why do you feel they belong in 'Medium Bores'?

George

I'm not sure it's pertinent, but the Brits always considered them mediums. I guess it's contextual. To most American hunters, 375 is a big boomer. PH's and African hunters can be expected to have a different perspective.

I agree with you,
I was always under the impression.....Up to .375-Medium bore, Over .375 but under .450-Large medium bore and .450 and over-Large
bore.

I too believe that the 375 and 9.3 are medium bores. Heck, I think the 458 is a medium bore. However these cartridges have more in common with the truly big bores when it comes to types of game hunted. They would be out of place in the discussions in the medium bore forums. They can stay.

375 is definately a medium bore, but is considered to be a big bore in NA by many..

My thoughts...

Among those of us who regularly shoot and hunt with .375 and larger, the .375 is reasonably considered a medium bore.

Buttttt, for those folks who think their .30-06 is a big rifle for deer/etc., the .375 is a cannon! I get that reaction often at rifle ranges.

It's just a matter of perspective.

Here's what a big bore looks like......

I think the 375 sits at the bottom of the "Big Bore" rifles for us. If you go to the range with a 338 Mag, people say "oh yeah, my ______________ has one of those". You pull a 375 out of a rifle case and people go "whoa!". The length of the round, and comparative rarity; and the fact that people know you can kill Elephants, and Buffalo, and Rhino with them impresses the masses. If I could have only one rifle, it would be a tossup between the 375H&H and my 416 Rigby. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Rigby wins.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Why do you feel they belong in 'Medium Bores'?

George

Because it IS a medium bore and putting it in the big bore forum seems to suggest that it is in the same class as the true big bores.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Why do you feel they belong in 'Medium Bores'?

George

Because it IS a medium bore and putting it in the big bore forum seems to suggest that it is in the same class as the true big bores.

Exactly the 375 is a medium bore, nothing more...

I was surprised at the question..

I agree the Brits consider the .375 a medium bore, but they also considered the .577 a small bore back when 4-bores were common.

Saeed considered the .375's proper place, and put it in 'Big Bores'.

George

Obviously the 375 discussions are taking up too much bandwidth to allow adequate coversation to take place on true big bores. After this gets corrected, can we please take a look at changing the cartridge at the top of the Big Bore Forum to something a little more beefy, like a 475 Nitro Express No. 2.

Even by modern standards the 375 is still a medium. Today the 416s are considered to be a big bore,even thou the 375 is rare in the US game fields dosen't change the fact that the 375 is still a medium bore with a special invitation to attend.

Only if the 416's move down with us!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
Only if the 416's move down with us!

I agree John....

Ah, but John, the .404's and .416's were never considered as true "medium bores." They were considered as "large medium bores" and you have got to admit, there is a real and substantial jump in power between a .375 H&H and a .416 Rigby. I think we should move the .375's to the medium bore catagory because it was the .375 H&H that was considered one of the very finest of the medium bores. In addition, I am a huge fan of the 9.3's. To put the 9.3's in the medium bore category and the .375 in the large bore category suggests that there is a material difference between the two and I just don't think that is the case.

Somebody set up one of the poll things and lets vote on whether the .375 should be moved to the medium bores.

Dave

What a waste of time. At first I thought this was a joke. If one of those "poll thingys" is set up, can one of the choices be "who gives a crap and can we get back to more important things like how RIP has way too much time on his hands and his great uncle was PO Ackley."

I've always liked John Taylor's definition in his book Big Game and Big Game Rifles:

Large Bore: A rifle the calibre of which is not less than .450

Large Medium Bore: A rifle the calibre of which is not less than .400 nor greater than .440

Medium Bore: A rifle the calibre of which is not less than .300 nor greater than .375

Small Bore: A rifle the calibre of which is less than .300

Of course, he was thinking in terms of nitro (smokeless) cartridges used in mainly bolt action rifles and double rifles for African hunting. For Large Medium Bore and Large Bore I would add to his definitions a minimum energy requirement of 4,000 ft lb or so.

-Bob F.

Energy is a poor way to rate a cartridges terminal performance IMHO

A 338/378 with a 180 grainer at 3450 FPS has 4757 FPE and I don't think that it is in the same class as a 404 JEffery for Large Heavy Game...

John:

I understand your point but in actuality, the .400's and .416's were never considered true "mediums." I makes more sense I think to put the large mediums in with the large bores. On the other hand, the .375 H&H was considered to be the cartridge that literally defined the medium bores.

I am a big fan of the 9.3's and I think that by putting the .375 in the large bore category, it suggests that the .375 is in a league with the true large bores and thus, superior to the 9.3's and I just don't think that is the case.

Let's take a vote. I don't know how to do it but I would like to see someone set up a thread with a poll to see if we can ask Saeed to move the .375 on down to the medium bore thread.

Dave

Big bores start at .450 (a/k/a .458).

So what?

Rather than move the 375 to "Medium Bores" maybe we should define the catergories.....

Small = less than .25 cal
Med = .25 through .366
Big = .375 and up

Or instead of Big Bores call them DG cartridges... can't do that, what would we do with the 45/70

quote:

Originally posted by Prewar70:
What a waste of time. At first I thought this was a joke. If one of those "poll thingys" is set up, can one of the choices be "who gives a crap and can we get back to more important things like how RIP has way too much time on his hands and his great uncle was PO Ackley."

Why aren't we special.

What would YOU like to talk about your lordship?

Lets have a forum called
"Calibre-Label Nomenclature Minutia"

Under that can be sub forums:
Ultra large Bore - .577 +
Large Bore - .458 - .510
Medium large Bore - .400- .435
Large-Medium-but-not-quite-Big-Bore - 9,3/.375/.395
Medium-almost-large-medium bore - .338-.358
Common-boring-Mid-Bore-Euro - 7mm / 8mm
Common-boring-mid-bore-Imperial- .277/.30/.303
Medium-mid-bore-Euro - 6.5mm
Medium-mid-bore-Imperial - .257
Large-Small-bore - 6mm
small-bore - .223-.228
micro-bore - 5mm/.17/.20

There, nice and streamlined! Not boring at all

Excellent, although somewhat out of the public eye as of late, his early work is pure genius. I mean who doesn't like Purple Rain???? I've heard his weapon of choice is a 458 Lott.

Now you changed your post on me and I'm really confused. I thought we were talking about Prince, as in the artist/person. Now it's lordship, and I'm not familiar with that musician.

I'd have to say keep it in Big Bore section for the reasons that Bitterroot, PostDriver and ISS stated. Depends upon your target audience, but anyone with whom I hunt would certainly think of a 375 as a Big Bore while the .30, 8mm, 338 and 358 calibers would be thought of as mediums.

If you look at big game animals here in the US, various deer/elk/moose many hunters would wonder why you brought an "elephant gun" like the .375 H&H to hunt big game (even though I took my elk with my .416).

So in my mind it belongs in the Big Bore section as it is now.

Kayaker I like it. If I could make one small suggestion, we combine the Medium mid bore Euro 6.5mm and Medium mid bore Imperial .257. There is just not enough difference between .264 and .257 to warrant two categories, I'm sorry.

OK Prewar, I'll let that one slide.....but just this ONCE!

My main concern is over all those .375 owners who thought they were shooting a big bore....and now we ruin their lives by saying that its a medium bore...I mean, imagine the social repercussions...you would have to sell your .375 and buy a .45-70 levergun so you could once again tell your friends that you shoot a big bore....

This is all very very serious

I consider the .375 a big bore and base that on using it..I don't really care one way or the other as I don't see it as something to concern myself with..I know its certainly big enough to shoot elephant with, so it must be a big bore. If it is of deep concern to someone then me thinks they need to get a full time job as they have way to much idol time on their hands!

No but this whole friggin thread and the poll should be moved to the trash...

quote:

it's time to move the .375's over to the medium bore forum

Nah.....move it to the Varmint Shooting forum.....cause it's just an over-rated plinker.

For purposes of this forum, did not the owner of this site make the designation of small, medium, and Big Bore? IMHO we are not going to change anything

Maybe its pole time?
I vote for simplification, two forums: 1) 375H&H
2) All others

I think under .400 plinkers, under .500 small bore, under .600 medium bore, let's seperate the men from the boys!

lol

Chuck

The biggest shoulder fired weapon that I own is a 375 H&H and I consider it a big bore because of where the legal limits are for the game pursued.

I used to shoot these though:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Why do you feel they belong in 'Medium Bores'?

George

Because it IS a medium bore and putting it in the big bore forum seems to suggest that it is in the same class as the true big bores.

Well, there's all kind of guys out there who consider the 45/70 a big bore.

Greenjoy,

I know you Canucks are a fun loving bunch.... but your reference to "pole time" scares me

[QUOTE]Originally posted by greenjoy:
Maybe its pole time?
I vote for simplification, two forums: 1) 375H&H
2) All others

Most everything I've ever read about the .375 caliber, specifially, the .375 H&H, has always referred to it as the "Queen of the Medium Bores." I was surprised when I found this forum that the .375 was considered a "Big" bore. However, I buck convention just because I can sometimes ... so, Medium or Big bore, the .375 does it's job beautifully with out knocking the snought out of you. I say leave it where it is, only to not to confuse us old folks that would have to go on an "Easter Egg Hunt" to find it.

...

....I,m still waiting to find someone who has the combo to knock flat and kill out right with one shot more than 75% of the time with a chest shot a cape buffalo ...............I think that would be a true large bore .....I don,t mean run around for a while ....I mean kill it like a cns shot only with a chest shot .......

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