The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 375 H&H vs 375 UMGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| <socal hunter> |
Which one is better? I am going to buy one and would like help deciding | ||
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| one of us |
Quite frankly the 375 H&H is one of the most attractive cartridges to own , IMO. From a hunting stand point there is no difference, though velocity driven people would disagree. | |||
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| one of us |
I am a big fan of any cartridge that does not have a belt. The 375 UM falls into this catagory and is an excellent round. By eliminating the belt the cartridge will feed much smoother. Some proponents of belt-less cases claim better accuracy. I personally shoot a custom built rifle in 375 Dakota, ( a belt-less round)and it is much more accurate than the 375 H&H mags I have had in the past. It also is not particular about the powder or bullet it is loaded with. I hope this helps. Dave | |||
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| one of us |
.... and then suddenly all of those smooth feeding 375 H&Hs' started chinking-up and were no longer able to feed. get real | |||
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| one of us |
I like the idea of being able to push the really big bullets faster, but I'm not sure I know of anyone hunting NA who've used the H&H and said, "you know, I wish it just had a little more." | |||
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| one of us |
Bwana-be, I know of some Alaskan hunters who are going for the .416 Rigby instead of the .375 H&H because of their experiences with the brown bears. | |||
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| one of us |
HI, DAGGARON, I think you and I think very simular. I will be getting my 416 Rigby from MR. Brockman, not for around 6 months or so and the reason is, this is what I will use when I move to Alaska. Thanks,Kev | |||
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one of us |
SoCal Hunter, The .375 H&H is the "better" of these two calibers because it has enough downrange energy to do the job, and you can get ammunition for it anywhere. Well, maybe not on Mars. Also every maker of suitable big game rifles chambers a rifle for the H&H cartridge, so you have a very wide selection of rifle choices. The classic knock on rebated rim cartridges is they can have feeding problems. I have not tried the RUM cartridge case, so I am just repeating that tale without verifying it. You can go over to the Gunsmith Forum and read the Remington M700 Trigger thread. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} John Gannaway says "The .375 H&H is like a pair of black shoes, everybody should have one". I agree. jim dodd | |||
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| one of us |
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| one of us |
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| one of us |
The only difference between the two is the recoil. If you want more recoil, then get the 375 UM. But in the field and tested on animals, you won't tell the difference between the two. And that belt vs non-belt feeding crap, that's all it is, is crap. My BELTED magnums feed smooth. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Now that one just about made me fall out of my chair. You're seriously telling me that you think a 375 whatchmabooger will feed smoother than the H&H because the H&H has a belt? You seriously need to go try some of these things before posting stuff like this. There's nothing that feeds slicker than a 300 or 375 H&H. You may not like belts, but they don't cause feeding problems, that's for sure. [ 03-16-2003, 06:49: Message edited by: boltman ] | |||
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| one of us |
just a quick side question. i know the h&h usually comes in a 24" tube and i have heard of them down to 20" without ill affects other than loss of hearing! does the rum mandate a 26" tube like its litlle brothers? if so this would easily decide for me that the h&h is a no brainer. who would want to carry around a fence post when a 23" quick to point all world classic can be yours today for similar $$ i think i just talked myself into one.... woofer | |||
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one of us |
If you need greater long range "hitability" than a 375 HH provides, then you need a 338 of some sort. If you need more close range "punch" than a 375 HH provides, then you need a 416 of some sort. The 375 RUM is just about the perfect rifle for shooting lions at 300+ yards. For just about every other situation, I can think of some other cartridge that suits me better. | |||
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one of us |
A CRF in 375 h&h gets my vote. | |||
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| one of us |
How oftan are lions shot at 300+ yards? ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} Maybe Beanfield lion rifles will become popular. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
I want to see those big putty tat's up close [ 03-16-2003, 08:43: Message edited by: gsp ] | |||
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| One of Us |
socal hunter, I am not sure but I think the 375 RUM might only be chambered in the Rem 700 and this is a light rifle. If the Rem 700 is fine for you then that would eliminate one of the minuses associated with the 375 RUM. In my opinion the pluses for the 375 H&H are practicality based and in addition if you desire a classic big bore rifle/calibre combination then the Model 70 or CZ 550 are hard to go past in the 375 H&H. I think if you just want to own a 375 bore size and own the "right" calibre/rifle then the 375 H&H in M70 or CZ 550 is the way to go. The pluses for the 375 RUM will be greater loading flexibility. For one thing it will equal 375 H&H maximum ballistics in cruise mode. Wit full power loads it will produce the same velocity with equal sectonal desnity bullets as does the 270 Winchester. Say 3000 f/s with 270 grain 375 bullets and 3000 f/s with 150 grain 270 bullets. However to make use of the 270 type trajectory you may need a muzzle brake on the rifle. For what it is worth, if the 375 RUM had been introduced in 1912 and loaded with lower pressure loadings to equal the 375 H&H and if the 375 H&H had been introduced in only the last couple of years then everyone would be saying the 375 RUM is better because it can deliver the ballistics at much lower pressure while offering the flexibility to go much higher. In other words same deal as the 416 Rigby and 416 Remington. Mike | |||
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| one of us |
I dont own a 375, heck ive never even shot one. But i was under the impression that one of the really desirable things about the Holland case was that it tapered with very little shoulder so it feeds smoothly and reliably?? Didnt they design it that way for that reason?? | |||
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| one of us |
SeanD, My Model 70 375 H&H is one of the smoothest feeding guns that I own. Somebody just doesn't know what they are talking about, that is all. | |||
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| one of us |
About .375 RUM velocity from a 23" barrel: I compared the Remington factory loads in a 26" barreled stainless M700 LSS from the factory, versus a CZ 550 Magnum with a Winchester M70 Super Express barrel chopped to 23" and custom chambered with no doubt some tight minimum specs instead of the factory slop. The 26" M700 LSS gave an average velocity of 2803 fps with the 300 grain Swift A-Frames. The 23" custom chambered barrel gave 2784 fps. ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} I think pressures were higher in the tight chambered gun, but a reasonably pressurized 2700 fps with 300 grain bullets would be easy in a 23" .375 RUM, surely. I like the way Mike375 summed it up. I agree. For two rifles, take a .338 or .375 WhateverMagnum and a .416 Rigby. Or how about a darling pair such as this: .338 Lapua .416 Rigby For the one rifle minimum bore of maximum potential for all around worldwide use, choose from these: .375 H&H .375 Weatherby .375 RUM .375/404 Saeed .375 Lapua, also known as the 9.5x70mm Tornado, or .375 JAB, possibly someday. .378 Weatherby (Forgive me if I left anyone out). But if you can handle the heat in the kitchen, just get a .416 Rigby for the one-rifle battery. | |||
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| one of us |
Dagga if you ran your own dictatorship... everyone in your country would have to own a 416 rigby | |||
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| <ovis> |
Holland465, Love that plain vanilla, yes I do!!!! The curious thing about plain vanilla is that all the game taken with my plain vanilla is just as dead as that taken with your Haagen-Daas! Oh and yes the H&H sure will "chunk" 350gr bullets out there but the RUM will do it also and not have to catch its breath afterward. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} All of these calibers are very capable of doing various jobs well. I'll keep my 26" "fencepost" and anyone who thinks a 23" "stump" is all that much quicker in the alders has either never been there or is from Vermont. Life is good. Joe | ||
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| one of us |
Smallfry, NO NO NO!!! If I am the dictator, I shall disarm the citizens. If I am head of state in a democracy with freedom of speech and religion, then truth and knowledge and peace shall prevail. Then there would be a chicken in every pot and a .416 Rigby in every home. | |||
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| one of us |
ovis, Agreed. My favorite barrel lengths are between 23" and 26" inclusive, and I do like the 26 incher better, regardless of how thick the bushes get. Daniel Boone did O.K. with a 48" barrel, but he didn't know that a 26" barrel was asking for death by brush entanglement either. He seemed to be able to point and shoot pretty well nevertheless. BTW the 26" barreled M700 LSS is hardly a fence post. It feels more like a magic wand to me, especially in .375 RUM. that baby is light! About 7 lbs bare, ain't it? With scope and mounts, about 8.5 pounds, eh? Very portable, manageable and FUN! | |||
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| <ovis> |
Dagga, I restocked mine with a Bell& Carlson Medalist and it added a few ounces, but, yeah, I think mine was 7.5 out of the box. My Trijicon 1.25x4 arrived today but the Holland mounts I have will not work with the Trij, so it's back to the mount sites to find something that will work. I really like the RUM. I've only been reloading about a year and this is going to be fun having a caliber this flexible. A friend just gave me a jug of VV160 so I thought I might try it and see what it will do. About the 26" barrel, well, I think it balances nicely on the RUM and I don't think there's a quicker handling rifle, with that kind of balance, out there. I like mine, just plain good value. Joe | ||
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| one of us |
Ovis, I hear you. I took mine out of the factory laminated wood stock and put it into the cheap plastic stock that Remington makes. That rifle still shoots sub-MOA with the drop in milk jug stock. The plastic stock is a little lighter than the laminate, so it brought the weight down to about 7.25 lbs. I may put the laminate back on with pillar bedding. I trust the plastic more than the cheap laminates that come from the factory. My scope is the Leupold 2.5-8X in matte black with mil dot reticle. Versatile. | |||
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| <ovis> |
Dagga, The B&C stock I've got has the full length aluminum bedding block and I'm really looking forward to shooting it but I keep having these minor glitches come up. Every time one rears its ugly head, I remind myself that, new in box, I paid less than $500 for the rifle and I get very patient once again. Have you used the VV160 in your RUM? I'm fishin'.................... Life is good. Joe | ||
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| one of us |
quote:I am real! After having around 12 different 375 H&H rifles I can say that the beltless rounds are much smoother. By the way, what is "Chinking up"? I cannot seem to locate a definition for that phrase anywhere. | |||
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| one of us |
Ovis, I hadn't thought about that B&C Medalist stock before, but it is excellent, though offered in not many rifle fits, but the Remington 700 long action is indeed one that I ought to get and use on my .375 RUM. I was thinking H4831 with the 300 grain bullet, 92 to 99 grains, whatever is most accurate. Or RL-22. If you come up with some outstanding N160 load let us know. FWIW, I think the extreme case body taper of the .375 H&H and 300 H&H allow them to overcome any belt generated feeding problems. I have never owned a .375 H&H that did not feed well. | |||
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| one of us |
Saeed's data for the .375/404 includes VVN160. With the 300 grain Barnes X: 83.0 to 97.5 grains 95.0 grains of VVN160 gave 2813 fps with a 25" barrel and a 0.539" group for three shots at 100 yards. The .375 RUM should be pretty close to this. http://www.accuratereloading.com/375404jeff.html [ 03-16-2003, 20:14: Message edited by: DaggaRon ] | |||
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| One of Us |
I like the .375 H&H bore size and when I purchased a .375 rifle to add to my collection the H&H was the natural choice. It is pleasant to shoot and still gives plenty of whallop. And Brass is also pretty easy to get. I do not want to own a calibre that I am struggling to obtain brass for due to it being scrapped from the inventors production schedule. | |||
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| one of us |
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| one of us |
quote:Obviously you have not spent a lot of time examining custom rifles or rifles from makers like Rigby,Trevallion,Heilmann, etc. Any cartridge that does not have an appendage around it's waist so to speak will feed smoother. Of course if the only rifles you are familiar with is Winchester or Remington, I cannot enlighten you! | |||
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| <ovis> |
Dagga, The Medalist is really nice and comes with the Pach. Decell. pad in place. Great fit. The only adjustment was to give the bolt release mechanism a tiny bit of room as the fit was so good it made that a bit sticky. Try it, I think you'll like it. Thanks for the heads up on the load info. Tomorrow I'll try to solve my scope mounting problem and then begin working up loads. On another note, I used to own an old Brno in .375H&H and have access to a couple more that I've shot and hunted with not to mention a custom .300H&H I've spent a lot of time with, and they all fed flawlessly, no problems. I'm sure some do better than others, but I feel that's the rifle to rifle difference and has little to do with belted or beltless cases. Also, what Mike375 said............Gday Mike! Life is good. Joe | ||
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| one of us |
Nobody's talked about mag capacity. 375 H&H is pretty much 5, 6 in a pinch, down, and one up. RUM is big, fat and round. Maybe 3+1? IN bear country, this is important. Those big grizz often do not go down easily. Rum has that nice big case. Lower pressures if used sensibly, better velocity. H&H has higher pressure in max loads, and many factory loads, and, if loaded down to original design, is still just fine;-) In other words, look for 2400 fps with a 300 grain bullet, or 350 grain bullet, and your pressure should be reasonable. While I use the fast loads from the factories for the 375, I really wonder if I would be better served with 35-40k loads... Rum might be the round for long range bear and elk sniping, if you can make the shots. The crap about feeding just kills me. CZ works just fine, thanks. Also, check out some of the nightmares about custom rifles, like the 404, that don't have a belt to head space on... Costwise, the 375 H&H is the most reasonable of the bunch to get into, and, case capacity to bullet weight and bore, it seems to be a real sweet spot. Since it's dimensions are about the same as the 375, as are the lotts, it appears the 416 makes better use of the capacity to the bullet it puts down range then the 375 H&H. The rum appears way overbore, and the Lott takes more pressure to reach 2350 with a 500 grain bullet then most shoulders would like. If not for the fact that ammunition is twice the cost, the 416 Rigby would get my vote. How much do you shoot your big bores? If you just use it for hunting, the 416 would get my vote... s | |||
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| <ovis> |
Socrates, There's not a guide in Alaska that's going to let you take long range shots at bear. As far as magazine capacity goes, if you haven't done your Brownie in with the first couple of shots you're not going to be concerned with whats left in the magazine because he'll already be taking you apart. Those are just facts of life. That's why it's called bear hunting, not bear shooting. Joe | ||
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| one of us |
Ovis: A guy that runs an ammo company suggested that the reason those bears get so big is they are smart enough to stay 400 yards away from anyone with a rifle, during bear season. I guess his guide suggested he might consider the Rum, since he is QUITE capable of very long range shots. As far as I can tell, that's the ONLY reason to own a rum, other then the cartridges sure look cool... ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} Also, in a properly setup up rifle, I think the RUM is about the maximum most people can benchrest shoot for long range shots, anyway. 378 WBY is sort of more of the same. Very flat, very long, and delivers a lot of energy. Saeed likes his version of it, but, he talked me into just buying a 375 H&H, and I'm glad he did. I guess what he had in mind was bear trophy shooting, and considered getting to 400 yards enough of a hunt... s [ 03-17-2003, 07:07: Message edited by: Socrates ] | |||
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| <ovis> |
Socrates, You're kidding, right? You really believe that? Trophy bear hunting at 400yd because the bears are keeping an eye out for people with guns? That's why they get big? Socrates, that's definitely beyond my realm of knowledge or experience. Joe P.S. The only reason I see to own a RUM is because I want one. | ||
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