just wondering what the more affordable .500's are. I looked into the CZ .500 jeffery and it was twice the price of the .458 lott at over 3,000. So the question is are their any out their or should I just go with the .458 lott?

How do you want to use the rifle?

George

hunting dangeous game. Alaska and maybe africa

H&R handy rifles in 500 S&W go for under $400!

steel, justa question...have you shot a Lott or any of the 500's?
Kinda wondering why anybody with the $$ to dole out for Africa and/or AK would try to pinch pennies on a 500 cal class rifle....a $3000 CZ is lots less then you'll pay for any other bolt in that catergory.

Ant to be honest, a 500 (insert name) is pretty much overkill for ALaska. A good 375 Holland will work up here for everything including the furry VW Bugs that eat salmon! And at half the price, I saw a Kimber 8400 Talkeetna for $1600. A perfect Alaska rifle.

I have done most of my hunting with my smith and wesson .500 handgun and now im kinda looking to get into the rifle game. I like large caliber weapons and im not recoil shy. I have no problem spending the 3,000 for a rifle but it is easier to convince my wife on a $1600 rifle over a $3,000 pluse rifle.

You should look at the B&M site of Michael458's. The 50 Super short and the 50 B&M are great .500 caliber guns. These are very affordable.

Buy a low cost standard length Mauser and rebarrel it to 500AR, add minor feed ramp, rail & magazine work, have all the power in the world.

About 5 years ago, I picked up a .500 A2 Hannibal for very reasonable money. The rifle had a miserable trigger and the iron sights weren't straight, but, with a few fixes, I'm very happy with the rifle.

B&M has some used and new rifles available at very good prices, you should look there.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
B&M has some used and new rifles available at very good prices, you should look there.

I didn't see any 50s on the "Available Rifles" page. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place?

quote:

Originally posted by steel:
hunting dangeous game. Alaska and maybe africa

50 cals primarily for Alaska and perhaps Africa - I'll throw in possible buff hunting in Australia as well...

Today you have a great selection in 50 caliber - both true .500 caliber (bullet & groove diameter) and the traditional .510 caliber (both bullet and groove diameter).

My absolute favorite is the 50 B&M (true .500 caliber) in stainless steel with English walnut stock (uses - makes a nice short and light package that is still very accurate at 200yds with RN bullets. Today I'd look for a great deal on a M70 Extreme Weather rifle in either 300 or 325 WSM and send it to SSK Industries for a rebarrel to 50 B&M; will qmake a great all weather .500 caliber rifle at about the same weight as the AI' walnut stocked rifle. Proper headstamp brass is available from Quality Cartridge (and perhaps Jamison headstamp from Captech International in the near future).

If you want additional power, there is the 500 MDM in .500 caliber. Or move over to the .510 caliber in 500 AR; in the case of the 500 AR I would go with the 500 AR Nyati (newer standard freebore version); regardless both finish chamber reamers and the Go/No-Go gauges are held at McGowen Precision Barrels and they can perform thE rebarreling relying work for you. Proper headstamp brass is available for the 500 MDM and 500 AR cartridges from Quality Cartridge.

There are a couple of additional choices in .500 and .510 caliber and I can point you in the right direction for them should you want a slight step up from the 500 MDM and 500 AR...

I personally went with the alternative .500 caliber - the 12.7x68 - chambered in a custom metalwork commercial FN M98 Mauser action. Wood blank is in the garage (hand picked Austrialian' English Walnut) but the finished rifle will wear a synthetic stock initially.

Good luck with your decision...

Charles_Helm,

You looked in the right place. But there is a .458 Lott that he suggested might be an alternative.
The list has fewer than I've seen before, maybe he sold them at DSC.

Or you could buy my 510 van Horn as I've stepped up to a 600 ok and the new 606 Mammoth.
I also shoot a 505 but I have not shot it enough yet.
Frank

I built a 500 A Square and a 500 Weatherby on defiance actions for under 1600.00 each

You could find an A-Square in 500 A2 for around the $2,100 mark. Easy to load for using 460 Wby brass and .510 bullets.

500 A-square is a asskicking round--easy to get brass--and most of the A-square rifles shoot good like them or not!

Ed

Yup, one of the best and most realistic of the big bore calibers.

Dudley and Clinton Rogers carry 500 A2 built on CZ actions. They are in elephants constantly and trust them based on their experience. I saw what that caliber can do to a Cow Cape Buffalo (PAC animal) and it was awesome.

You can convert a CZ 550 in .416 Rigby to a .500 a2 for well under $2k. I've built two of them and this conversion is easy and flawless. Of the .500s in my opinion the 500a2 is the most bang for the buck. You can put more money into it and fancy it up as you gain experience.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
B&M has some used and new rifles available at very good prices, you should look there.

I didn't see any 50s on the "Available Rifles" page. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place?

Charles and Butch,

Just a few days before DSC a fellow bought that English 500 MDM. I am busy getting that one ready for him along with ammo for an elephant hunt in March. This fellow has 10 elephants and 10 buffalo to sort out with it. One of the other 458 Lotts sold on gunbroker this past week as well, and the other one someone is pondering right now. That did not leave much on the Rifles Available page!

I have one 50 B&M that is nearly new, gunkote finish, and Accurate Innovations gray laminated stock, near perfect Alaska gun, that I might list, was gonna keep it??? I have several B&Ms on the way from SSK in the next week or so, one of them should be a stainless 50 B&M with a laminated Winchester stock, less money than the AI stock version.

Or naturally as always you can get your own and send to SSK as well.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
Dudley and Clinton Rogers carry 500 A2 built on CZ actions. They are in elephants constantly and trust them based on their experience. I saw what that caliber can do to a Cow Cape Buffalo (PAC animal) and it was awesome.

In 2007 I took the first 50 B&M over and shot two medium size bulls with Dudley. He never had a chance to use his big 12 lb 24 inch A2, and was wondering why in the world did he have to tote it around all day, when he could be getting the same results with about 4-5 lbs less, and more than a half foot shorter! HEH HEH..........

M

The MDM rifles look great. The only downside is that you have to talk to Michael to get one :-)

If you build .510", then the 500 AccRel Nyati is probably the most affordable.

Get a used Ruger Hawkeye or Win70 Control-feed action, then for $700 you can have a barrel, chamber and feeding work. Add a stock if the donor rifle stock is not up to the load. Boyds has some strong laminates for around $100, and Hogue has a full aluminum block bedding for $300. If you keep the barrel length to 20-22" then the overall rifle + scope should be around 9 1/2-10 lbs. Pretty hand little rifle at $1500 or even less.

The 500AccRNyati cartridge handles 7000 ftlbs loads, so there is no reason to spend extra money for actions that will house cartridges with unused capacity. Most people do not load the 500A2 or Jeffrey up to potential (8000+ ftlb), so a medium action is more than enough and saves dollars and powder, but with all of the power of the 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeffrey, and then some.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The MDM rifles look great. The only downside is that you have to talk to Michael to get one :-)

Biebs


Yes, this is true, most of the time. But, I always offer up something to go with the talk! HEH.... And all of it for the best a shooter can get! There are NO dissatisfied B&M guys.
Winchesters Only! No others need apply!

M

Biebs,
Micheal's going to be a famous personality soon better get one before the prices go up along with his Movie,TV,and radio, career

quote:

You can convert a CZ 550 in .416 Rigby to a .500 a2 for well under $2k. I've built two of them and this conversion is easy and flawless. Of the .500s in my opinion the 500a2 is the most bang for the buck. You can put more money into it and fancy it up as you gain experience.-Rob

If you go the CZ route, then you might want to consider the Mbogo instead of an A2. Basically the 500 Mbogo is the A2 without the belt. See RIP and use his gunsmith McGee for the chambering.

how much for one of those 500 mdm rifles? It looks like an interesting round. How much for a box of 20?

1. Buy a used CZ in 416 Rigby.
2. Send it to Wayne at AHR and have him fit a 500 Wells Express barrel to it and do his package.

Moving into rifles a 500 would not be my first choice. One of the B&M might be interesting.

I've seen too many start with too much gun and never fully recover.

quote:

Originally posted by steel:
how much for one of those 500 mdm rifles? It looks like an interesting round. How much for a box of 20?

At DSC Carl and I were able to facilitate a meeting between Superior Ammunition, CEB and B&M. All the players were the principals; Larry, Dan and Michael. The purpose was to develop a source for commercial ammunition loaded with the CEB bullets for all the B&M caliber rifles. I believe there was agreement and consensus and the result will be that Superior Ammunition will begin custom loading of the CEB BBW#13 solids and NonCons, to the specs developed by Michael, in all the B&M calibers sometime in the not too distant future; not tomorrow but sometime later this year.

This is a major leap forward for both CEB and the B&M rifles. I am proud to have been a part of bringing these good folks together and making commercial CEB/B&M ammunition a reality.

Superior Ammunition:
www.superiorammo.com

Cutting Edge Bullets:
www.cuttingedgebullets.com

B&M Rifles and Cartridges:
www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com

And since someone always wants to know, I have no fiduciary interest whatsoever in these proceedings. I am, however, friends with all of them.

416 Tanzan- you have absolutely no idea what your getting into with. 500 Mbogo do you? You have never worked on a Cz550 yourself so you are unqualified to make the judgement of how hard or difficult that conversion really is.
I have built 500a2s myself and KNOW What I'm talking about. end of discussion. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Get more experience before you offer recommendations please. -Rob

Let's say you had a Model 70 in 416 Rem Mag -- I can't see anything that is an easy .50 conversion from there, especially to a commercially-available round.

Of course I am probably missing something since I really have no clue on this.

Steel

if it is a dual purpose gun, as to me it appears to be, than a cheap secondhand .460Wea Mark V. will save you a ton of hassle.

It isn't a .500 but most likely it will give you all that you will ever need for any every day hunting situation.

+ good factory ammo, if needed

Pyzda

quote:

Rob-
You have never worked on a Cz550 yourself so you are unqualified to make the judgement of how hard or difficult that conversion really is.
I have built 500a2s myself and KNOW What I'm talking about. end of discussion. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Get more experience before you offer recommendations please.

It is correct that I am a user of CZ's, not a gunsmith. I've owned three, all 416Rigby. And I enjoy learning every bit that I can on these lists.

So here is what I don't understand: if someone takes a CZ550 in 416 Rigby and has it rebarreled with a .510" spout, what is the difference between feeding preparation with the 500 Mbogo and the 500 A2? The Mbogo has the identical case head of the Rigby without an extra belt. Both rounds, Mbogo and A2, have a relatively fatter shoulder (Rigby shoulder 0.540 at 2.356", the Mbogo 0.572 at 2.480", and the A2 0.568 at 2.485). The Mbogo will need to headspace on a shoulder reference point and the A2 will rely on the belt. And the Mbogo has a 3" case instead of the 2.9" of the Rigby and A2. If there is a special trick or problem that deals with that difference, I'd like to hear about it because it may even have application to the 416 itself or my own "Nyati on a Ruger," for which I'm waiting for a second barrel.

PS: on feeding, I just let the good folks at McGowen barrels do the set-up. It would seem that they could handle a CZ as well as a Ruger, since they cut barrels with the "CZ" barrel underlug. However, since an Mbogo reamer is with Rusty McGee, KY, that would be the logical contact for an Mbogo. I would imagine that A2 reamers are more widely available.

Steel, consider this;

500 M.D.M Ultra Mag;

* 20" Barrel (or 19 if you wish) is all you need, and it swings like a '60's hippy
and points like a quail-gun
* at 8.5lbs (unscoped) a pure joy to carry day after week after month (I carried mine five consecutive months, last year, every day of the week, never noticed it was there)
* 450gn brass C.E.B non-con at a very conservative 2450fps lets the air out of buffalo in a most emphatic manner in any situation, from any angle.
* 3 down and one "up-the-spout" means plenty of firepower, two magazine loads and you've got a small herd on the ground !
* Easy to shoot, you'll notice your first twenty, or so, rounds as being a little more punchy than say a 458 Lott, but decidly less than say a 500 N.E.
* Easy to fireform and load for from brass that is readily available and relatively cheap.

This is not just a cartridge this is a package.
A practicle, usable and effective cartridge/platform that works and works well without excesses of any kind.

Whats not to like ?

Paul.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:
Steel, consider this;

500 M.D.M Ultra Mag;

* 20" Barrel (or 19 if you wish) is all you need, and it swings like a '60's hippy
and points like a quail-gun
* at 8.5lbs (unscoped) a pure joy to carry day after week after month (I carried mine five consecutive months, last year, every day of the week, never noticed it was there)
* 450gn brass C.E.B non-con at a very conservative 2450fps lets the air out of buffalo in a most emphatic manner in any situation, from any angle.
* 3 down and one "up-the-spout" means plenty of firepower, two magazine loads and you've got a small herd on the ground !
* Easy to shoot, you'll notice your first twenty, or so, rounds as being a little more punchy than say a 458 Lott, but decidly less than say a 500 N.E.
* Easy to fireform and load for from brass that is readily available and relatively cheap.

This is not just a cartridge this is a package.
A practicle, usable and effective cartridge/platform that works and works well without excesses of any kind.

Whats not to like ?

Paul.

Paul, the MDM is a great rifle. No questions there. But since you asked, like everything in life there are tradeoffs.

If the rifle is dual-purpose, buffalo AND plains game, then something with a 150 fps more velocity than the MDM would be a plus. The MDM is about 10 grains capacity smaller than a 500AccRel, despite using a long 2.8" case.

And this thread is 'most-affordable'. While the MDM is certainly priced fairly and reasonably when available, it can be beaten by rebarreling a Ruger in an inexpensive stock into something like the 500AccRel (Nyati). One gets what one pays for, of course, and a new MDM will probably be double in price and beauty.

A final point--I am assuming that an epoxy-edded Boyd's laminate stock will handle the 500 AccR Nyati. If it cracks I still have the original Hogue for back-up until I would order the least expensive Accurate Innovation laminate ($600?). These latter do look plenty tough with their bedding chassis.

Tanz

You have a very valid point, as far as most affordable. That can be taken right on down the line to the break open 500 S&W for $400 total as well, as someone mentioned earlier. For sure, the most affordable.

I did not build the 500 MDM as a dual-purpose multi use tool. It is built for a very specific purpose--close up buffalo, elephant, hippo. I also have not allowed it to be built on anything but a Winchester M70. And, even more specific than that, it needs to be one of the Winchesters that was factory 300RUM. This makes for a relatively easy conversion to 500 MDM. Very little work done to the magazine to retain and feed the 500 MDM, as it is based on a RUM case. This was all on purpose and by design.

First, me personally, I would not have anything but a Winchester M70. So if it was not a M70, then I had zero interest in it. It has to be 100% reliable, or, as absolutely as close to that as ANY manmade object can possibly be. The rest is up to the shooter in case of failure. The Winchester M70 is easy to get to that point of reliability if you choose the design properly. We investigated putting the 500 MDM on a H&H based action, and that was not going to give us the reliability that I required of it, so all that was dropped.

So no, for sure, the Winchester M70 500 MDM, or any of the B&M 500s, are not the cheapest there is by any stretch. I am not looking for cheap when I go to the field for buffalo, hippo, or elephant.

While I am no gunsmith, hell I could not gunsmith my way out of a wet paper bag! In fact, they really don't like for me to have too many tools around here that I can possibly screw things up with! I attest to zero abilities in that area. But, as a shooter I do maintain a certain amount of "control" over the B&M rifles/cartridges to maintain integrity and reputation of the rifles. I won't sacrifice any part of the reputation so they can be put on a cheaper action, that may or may not work as I require them to do. To date I have allowed one Ruger to be built on a 50 B&M, from a 416 Ruger action. One RSAUM done on a 2 inch 458BMSA. That is it.

Now, I know you love that dual purpose stuff, and that is fine. I like dual purpose as well, but only to the point that it does not in any way sacrifice or limit the Primary Duty of the rifle, which is the big heavies! Plains game and other activities are "Secondary" to the Primary. To enhance the Secondary activities of all the B&Ms, I do that with bullet choice, and in most cases, design. We have a neat little 300 gr BBW#13 NonCon, that can reach over 3000 fps in 20 inches of barrel, tip added, and gives a lot of secondary ability to the 500 MDM for that duty. More than enough.

But, I did this also for you .510 guys too, with the 350 gr BBW#13 NonCon in .510, that I ran to over 3000 fps in my very large, cumbersome, 12 lb Ruger Monstrosity with 24 inch barrel that needs wheels added to it, and a pully of some sort to lug it around, 510 Wells!


Of course, there are other .500 B&Ms too, 50 B&M, 50 B&M Super Short, 50 B&M Alaskan, and not too far distant future a 500 B&M (shorter version of 500 MDM--Experimental only)

Cheap? Hell No--Look for Cheap somewhere else! Reasonable? Yes! I don't want my name associated with "CHEAP".............

Michael

I would just go with a factory Lott or 458WM and move up to a 500 in a double rifle.You could just start with a double but using them to play around with often I am sure is very expensive.I could imagine if all the rifles I learned to shoot with were doubles what that would cost.I chose double shotgun over semi way back but that is a different thing.There is a certain kind of quickness to a double and class too.