Is there a good place to read about the differences?

There must be an old thread here somewhere.

If not what are the basic ballistic differences, recoil etc?

TJR

This is one of those topics that has been repeatedly discussed here. It almost rivals the "45-70" threads in exhibited passion! Anyway, there is no ballistic difference between the .416 Rem and .416 Rigby. Given this, and assuming rifles of similar design and weight, there cannot be any difference in recoil.
Aside from the .416 Rem lacking the panache of the Rigby, the main gripe people have with the Rem is the higher pressures necessary to produce Rigby velocity. The fear is that higher pressures in the African heat could lead to weapon failure at a crucial moment on dangerous game. People, of course, forget that the associated pressures are no higher than those necessitated by many other cartridges routinely used in Africa. Honestly, if you are REALLY worried about pressure in the .416 Rem, one can download it to 2150 fps and then consider it a bolt action version of the 450/400. Of course then the .416 Rem comes into more open conflict with the 400 H&H which many here will automatically deem superior due to the name on its headstamp.

Best,

John

I own and hunte with a 416 Rigby loaded to 2400 fps. It is correct that you can duplicate 416 Rigby performance with a 416 Rem. The issue of higher pressure is really a non-issue. While it is true a few years back the Rem had pressure problems with their factory rounds, that issue is long gone. The 416 Rem works at basically the exact same pressures as the 375 H&H and one never hears about problems with that round.

The advantage of the Rigby is that you can "hot-rod" it without too much trouble, and with a Barnes Triple Shock for example it is absolutely fantastic. Having said that, 2400 fps with a 400gr bullet is all you need, although I load mine to 2500 with relative ease.

The Rigby's long action makes for a heavier, more cumbersome action, while the Rem can be had in a nice, trim action without any appreciable difference in felt recoil. So, if I'm going to lug a huge action, might as well be a 45 of some kind.
Finally, the cost of 416 brass is very high, close to 2 bucks/ round. You can buy Rems for under .50/round. If I had to do it all over again, I would go with the Rem. That about covers it. jorge

Just a quick note on recoil. I shoot both and even at 2400 the Rigby is burning about 20 grs more powder so slightly more kick. Depending on gun weight this may or may not matter.

at nominal loadings, zero difference in what comes OUT of the rifle

he rem can be in a smaler action, but should weigh the same , so we are talking abotu 3/8 of an inch in bolt throw

and yeah, the rigby is slightly more recoil

jeffe

If you do a "search" you will find much on this topic. There was a recent post date 3-15-06 entitled something like "416 Rem. or Rigby" that you may wish to read. The guys noted the basic considerations above. Both cartridges will work, as the basis for a DGR, offering some additional flexibility over bigger bores, at longer ranges for PG.

I have been considering a new DGR and both the 416 Rem and Rigby are on my list but I have started to lean more heavily towards a 404 Jeffery. It can be produced in a lighter/slimmer action like the Rem. and has a wider "performance envelope", etc..not up to the Rigby but all one needs to have....reloading component availability/choice is limited for the 404 but seems on the increase. If you do not reload, the 416s offer an advantage over the 404, as factory ammo is more readily available.

Each has benefits and comprimizes and it is hard to go wrong with either choice as a DGR chambering....

Good luck with your choice...

Thanks guys. A lot of food for thought. I think I am probably going to buy a 416 Remington from HS Precision.

TJR

The .416 Rigby is better the .416 rem wouldn't pull the skin off a rice custard

quote:

Originally posted by TJR:
Thanks guys. A lot of food for thought. I think I am probably going to buy a 416 Remington from HS Precision.TJR

There is another, rather significant advantage to the Rem. round that is not mentioned yet, so I'll bring it up. Brass for the Rem. is a lot less expensive than for the Rigby. I cannot explain why I bought the Rigby instead of the Rem. But I did!

Well, it seems that HS Precision has a 4 - 6 month wait. They usually will turn around a rifle faster if I beg and plead but not now.

If anyone has a good quality 416 Rem for sale that is a proven accurate shooter I may be interested.

I would like it for a hunt in Tanzania in July. I also need a left hand 375 H&H for my hunting partner.

TJR

I believe a 416 Rigby is superior to a 416 Rem in the same way a 458 Lott is superior to a 458 Win Mag..Of course for the non handloader the Rigby does not have it's full potential. If you like the Lott, I believe you will probably feel better with the Rigby.The Lott -Win. Mag. debate applies in many ways. A guy could even have a short barreled version of the 416 Rigby and still out perform a less handy length 416 Rem.. Brass and powder are cheap enough for the extra flexibility. If I wanted a different 416, I would go with the Taylor. A nice stainless Ruger MK II would be an easy custom gun,and it has a nice short bolt throw.

I load my Rigby to 2530 fps with the 400's, it can be loaded to 2700 fps, but the recoil sucks and there's no need. That said, the Rem. can be built in a lighter rifle, not sure i want it any lighter. I like the Rigby, sounds like Africa, Remington sounds like Wal Mart.

i weighed it long and hard and went with the Rigby --- i have not regretted it or second guessed my decision. It does everything I want and LOTS (no pun intended) more! A 95 year old cartridge that runs right up there with the Big Dog, i.e. the 416 Weatherby....or just go with the factory loadings if you are feeling mellow.

It is capable of shooting 325 gr bullets flatter than a 30-06 with 180's and then it can also deliver 6,000 pounds energy if you want/need it. Very versatile!

quote:

A 95 year old cartridge that runs right up there with the Big Dog, i.e. the 416 Weatherby....

The "BIG DOG"?? Roy just took a good cartridge and messed it up by putting that damn belt on it. I suppose it sold more copies with the belt. But that's all.

Yes, the Big Dog.
To my knowledge the 416 Weastherby tops the Rigby and the Rem Mag and the Dakota.

Yes, one can clearly see the lineage between the Rigby and the Weatherby, HOWEVER, the Weatherby does hold more powder because he slightly enlarged the powder chamber vs the Rigby, hence that extra bit of power, hence.... Big Dog.

Probably should say "huntable 416's" as there is always that 416 Barrett BMG thingy.

quote:

To my knowledge the 416 Weastherby tops the Rigby

If one needs more powder in a Rigby case then one should move on to a .505 or .500.

JMHO,

John

quote:

and yeah, the rigby is slightly more recoil

I shoot both quite often and must not be as sensitive to recoil since I honestly can tell no difference. My personal prefernce is for the 416 Rem mag (M 70) but I wouldn't think twice about taking the 416 Rigby (CZ built by Jim Brockman) after the big stuff. Both are very fine calibers and I can't imagine needing more speed in a 416. Hell I know from personal experience that Barnes "X" bullets shoot through buffalo from almost any angle. Solids are better still. Flatter trajectory...I prefer shooting DG well within 100yds.

quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder:
I shoot both quite often and must not be as sensitive to recoil since I honestly can tell no difference..

No, you just have more faith in Newton's laws of motion.


Best,

John

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
The .416 Rigby is better the .416 rem wouldn't pull the skin off a rice custard

The 416 Rem mag fits in more guns,cost less to shoot powder brass and recoil wise.I hope Remington decides to make some more 416 rem mags.There are alot less made with the Winchester,Ruger and Remington hardly making any of them.There is a need for 416 rem mag rifles for under $1000.I bought all 5 of my 416 rem mags for less than $1000 each.The Rigby disapeared forever till Bill Ruger brought it back.I like the Ruger rsm rifle but wish it was in the 416 Rem Mag with a tang safety and stainless in an HS stock.That would be an awesome rifle.

I now have two CZ's in 416 Rigby and one Sako in 416 Rem Mag; eventually will have a Win 70 in 416 Rem Mag as well.

I'll keep shooting both calibers. Will get back to you in 20 years as to which is better.

LD

*Oops, Lois was logged on and I posted. I'm her sock puppet, and she's my Air National Garage.

Main difference is 78 grains of RL-15 versus 98 grains of H-4831.

I own and have hunted with both, I prefer the Remington because I like smaller and trimmer rifles. 9 pounds is easier for me to pack all day than 11 pounds. Both will kill anything you point them at properly and neither one will hammer buffalo or hippo anywhere near like a 450, regardless of how high you push the velocity.

I must be the only one who thinks a 20" barreled CZ 550 416 Rigby is a handy package. No need to lose velocity with the Rigby,just add powder. Also the heavier the bullet the more the Rigby shines over the Rem.Hawk makes a nice 500 grainer. It is hard to see how the Rigby can't do everything and them some over the Rem.Don't get me wrong I love my 375 JRS,it's a necked up 8mm Mag or if you like a necked down .416 Rem.It's just the Rigby gets you more flexibility.

quote:

Also the heavier the bullet the more the Rigby shines over the Rem. Hawk makes a nice 500 grainer.

OK! Question: Is the twist in the CZ 416 Rigby fast enough to properly stabilize that 500-grain bullet??

Time will tell on the 500 grainer. I haven't shot it yet, the guys at Hawk think so.I know if it shoots right,I have the powder capacity to nicely handle it.Case capacity is a good thing.I can see how a guy might want a 416 Taylor,it has a substantially shorter bolt throw over a Rigby.If I don't need the case capacity I would go with the Taylor, not the Rem..I am thinking a stainless Ruger MK II ,with rebored factory barrel with factory sights. I am waiting to hear more reports on the package.I know a few guys here have them.

quote:

Originally posted by longshots:
Time will tell on the 500 grainer. I haven't shot it yet, the guys at Hawk think so.I know if it shoots right,I have the powder capacity to nicely handle it.Case capacity is a good thing.I can see how a guy might want a 416 Taylor,it has a substantially shorter bolt throw over a Rigby.If I don't need the case capacity I would go with the Taylor, not the Rem..I am thinking a stainless Ruger MK II ,with rebored factory barrel with factory sights. I am waiting to hear more reports on the package.I know a few guys here have them.

Time will tell time will tell

The 500 grains bullet from Hawk will stabilize perfect in the CZ. I have shoot then myself loaded up with 103 grains MRP and the bullet will do 709 m/sec .
The hawk is not a premium bullet, but surely the 500 grain will take up any lion or perhaps
larger critters. Personally I think the woodleigh in 450 grain will be better for all big game. When reloading the 300 grain spitzer and the 500 RN from Hawk, the nose will become
deformed to some point(hahaha).

Jens,

I have said often that the big Rigby case should be utilised by African hunters to drive 450 gr woodleigh's at the magic speed of 2400 fps, it has the case capacity to do it and I doubt the .416 rem could match it in that respect.

Flexible round with bullets from 300 gr through to the capacity to drive a 500 gr bullet, pity none of these bullets are available in Oz (other than woodleigh's of course). Very keen to one try the 330 gr HV's from GS.

A freind of mine shot the cape buffalo, ONE shot
with his 416 Rem Mag and killed it. 400 gr bullet.
Thats good enought for me the 416 Rem.