nwwash stopped by for a while last night and we were discussing the new Remington 798 and the .470AR round.

We had a great time working out some details on ME getting a 'CRF' and thinking about the costs and practical applications of having a rifle like this.

I admitted that I had decided to get the 'CRF' rifle in a 'DGR' cartridge based on what I've learned here at accuratereloading.com
That the rifle would be an imported action by Remington was a 'PLUS'.
When we started talking about the "Bottom Rung of the BUBBA Ladder", I said that it seemed one HAD to have at least a .458 LOTT to start with~!

With my penchant for practicality; commonality of function; and doing homework WAY before I get the gun; we arrived at a somewhat surprising conclusion:
That being using the new '798' in .458 Win.Mag. and reaming it out to .458 LOTT!
This would mean I'd have to forego my enthusiasm for the new .470AR ( .475 ).

The logical argument is:
I would have a rifle that didn't need a new bbl.;
I wouldn't have to reload;
I could find TWO kinds of ammunition for it;
IT WOULD DEFINETLY KICK MY ASS;
it would qualify me for 'BUBBA' status!
( this last one is 'somewhat important' )

Overall, I'd be giving up on jeffeoso's most excellent project, but still be filling a niche that could only be attributed to my learning experience here.

It's the quickest path to 'BUBBAHOOD'.

quote:

in a 'DRG' cartridge

I'm imagining a cartridge with a prominent bald spot and glasses that moderates all the other cartridges.

WHOOPS! Fixed it!

Dangerous Rifle for Game!!!

The magazine box is too short on Zastava 458 Winchesters to accommodate the Lott, will have to be opened, may also have to be widened at front, feed port will also have to be lengthened at front and/or rear.

If it's too short for the Lott how does it accomodate the .375 H&H?

Rich Elliott

The 375 has a longer magazine box and the action is opened at the feed ramp.

Even if you start with a 375, the box is too narrow to do a Lott correctly. It can be fixed or replaced, though.

OK, please tell me what I'll need to have done and a ballpark gun$mith figure...

Ever get frustrated enough to feel like giving up on an idea?
ME NEITHER!

( edited to add: I can see why those things need to be done by looking at the full/short case. I just do NOT know about Mauser actions enough to understand what needs to be done to change it. )
Thank you for pointing these things out to me.

Well, if your starting with the 458 WM then you basically can open it up fit the bottom metal of your choice which is an advantage over the 375. More to choose from that way.

However you approach this conversion, you will have spent more than the price of a clean used Ruger RSM in 458 Lott for sure, probably a brand spanking new one.

And beware used Lott conversions for sale; many of them have had the feeding butchered and that's why they're for sale. Make sure you have enough ammo on hand and can test it out within the 3 day inspection period for that reason (if you buy one instead of build).

Of course, merely rechambering for a 458 AR and sorting out (testing, really) feeding would be the best of all possible worlds

lott performance (better, actually)
No serious gunsmithing charges
bottom metal cost avoidance (call it 400 bucks)
stock reuse
barrel reuse
easy easy feeding

jeffe

I don't think the easy feeding applies, Jeffe. The mag box is really narrow for a 458, much less the AR.

Harry,
i agree... so send it and $100 to dennis!!
think that could work?
jeffe

You guys are telling me, then, that what I OUGHT TO DO is:

Get the 7mm Rem.Mag.
Convert it to the .470AR ( exactly what does that entail? )
Bite the bullet on reloading stuff --- RIGHT?

I'm REALLY not getting this...
If I get the 7mm Rem.Mag., then the 'feed rails' are better, but the mag box isn't long enough?
If I get the .458 Win.Mag., then the 'feed rails' are wrong, and the mag box isn't long enough?
If I get the .375 H&H, then the 'feed rails' are wrong, and magazine box IS long enough?

I'm not understanding how to be a BUBBA and $AVE some money AND be more practical, all at the same time here.
Hey, I got Kids & a Mortgage, too!

Either I get a CZ/.458 LOTT and be done with it, or I get the Remington/ZASTAVA 798 and start working something out.
One way or another, my safe will have a 'DGR' in it.
Thanks, Gentlemen.

you can get a ruger in 7rem.. rebarrel to 470 AR, and are done. You can get a CD action (dont' care if it says remington) in 458, and rechamber to 458 AR, with a little feeding rail work, perhaps.

if you get the 375, and convert to 458 lott, you'll still need to spend a little on feeding.


just like my when I am grumpy.. pay for a feeding and everything gets better

jeffe

Well, it's gonna be a while, so I'll keep watching, reading, wishing, and saving my money.
I really like the idea of the .470AR. It's BIG.

Thank you for putting up with my ignorant enthusiasm!

( fading off into the sunset for a time )

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Harry,
i agree... so send it and $100 to dennis!!
think that could work?
jeffe

I'm just basing it on my experience with the FN and the 458 AR. I think to get the thing right you need to widen the box and relieve the rails like Tom does. More work than $100 will cover. That or start with a Ruger. That's what I'll do for the next one.

Well, since the thread ain't dead yet, I guess I'll ask more questions.
Where does the box need to be widened and why?
( Is it narrower at the front? )
What does 'relieving the rails' mean?

I figure this FORUM is here for questions like this.
It's good to have a place to Teach & Learn, wherever one is on that scale.
Thanks.

If you start with a 458Win MarkX and go to the Lott, you'll have to either buy a new magazine/triggerguard assembly (Blackburn, Sunny Hill, etc.) or have someone lenthen and widen the factory magazine. All will be wider at the front. The Sunny Hill mag is longer at the front requiring metal to be removed from the feedramp. I believe the Blackburn is lengthened at the rear and the front, probably the best solution. If you go with the AR, you won't need to lengthen but you will need to widen the magazine probably at both ends and alter the feedramp (Jeffe?). Have Dennis Olson or someone else experienced with this work do the job or you could end up with a mess.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Of course, merely rechambering for a 458 AR and sorting out (testing, really) feeding would be the best of all possible worlds

lott performance (better, actually)
No serious gunsmithing charges
bottom metal cost avoidance (call it 400 bucks)
stock reuse
barrel reuse
easy easy feeding

jeffe

I agree that this is an easier and more economical conversion, unless you really want the .458 Lott instead of a wildcat.

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:

Where does the box need to be widened and why?
( Is it narrower at the front? )

If you get ahold of 3 rounds of 458 Lott ammo, try to stuff them into your magazine box and you will see the problem.

Now you guys know why I don't own a "1911" .45ACP.
It's like a 'natural born clusterfukk' --- needing 'this & that' to make it right from the get-go.

This is starting to sound the same to me and I'm getting the heebie-jeebies thinking about a never-ending nightmare.

The wildcat thing is what I was attempting to avoid.
Hoping to be able to use two different types of .458 ammo sounded good to my ignorant mind, but not in this 798/ZASTAVA action.
If it takes that much work/money/trouble, I'm losing interest real fast.

I looked again at the CZ 550 American Safari in .458 LOTT, but I remember the need to have the stock worked on a bit ( what was it? crossbolts, at least? )...
That sounded like a better option overall.

I don't want a 'monkey gun'.
I want a shooter out-of-the-box with a MINIMUM of necessary 'preventative maintenance' work to be done.

500grains, I don't HAVE a magazine box OR the ammo yet, so how 'bout just TELLING me what I'd find if I tried what you said? Please. Thank you.

Looks like an ongoing study until I hear the right answers!

out of curiosity,why would there be any need to widen the box? isnt 458 win mag and 458 lott the same other than .3 of an inch in lenght?

if the 458 lott is .3 of an inck longer than the 458 win mag,that makes it .005 shorter than a 375 h&h.

im no expert but if my numbers are correct, i can see the box needing a little bit of lenght?
am i off on my assumtions?

BusMaster,

The 458 Lott is a good ticket to join the Big Bore group (we band of bubbas?), it will get you a chair right in the middle of the group IMHO.

There are lots of quality 458 cal bullets of every type, the round goes way over the British proven speed of 2150 fps, it is easy to reload for from "plinkers" to "mastadon killers" and if more recoil is needed to feel like y'all "belong" then the 458 Lott can be loaded up to about all the recoil a "normal" person could want...

Regarding the rifle, I'd give that Remington a break and go for a Ruger or a CZ. Once all you go above 375HH and are thinking DGR (whether it gets used for that or not) it is likely to need some work when you get it home omn order to withstand the evils of the more kick-arse cartridges (especially if you are looking to contain the cost of the original purchase).

Either the CZ or the Ruger will give you CRF and the actions and the magazines and the ramps and the feeding will be pretty much "ready to go" and the entire rifle will be laid out in proportion and in balance to the power of the cartridge.

You're a big boy and the choice is obviously yours. IMHO, this will get you "in" with a minimum of headache and heart ache, both Ruger and CZ are well respected. It is fun working through all the possibilities.

Great points made, ELKampMaster.

The "BUBBA" thing would fall under the 'wanna be' catagory, honestly.
It is just something I'd like to say I owned.

The CZ550 American Safari in .458 LOTT is probably my best choice here.
Lon Paul made a CZ rifle once that had a McMillan stock and other features that was pictured in a BIG BORE RIFLES special edition issue years ago.
THAT rifle has always been the ONE that I pictured owning.

Staying with the Remington 798; maybe THIS is the .375 H&H I should have that I always wanted.
It would be a Remington with the features I'd like to have in that most classic of cartridges.

Since I already have the 'infamous' unfired Remington 700 / .375 ULTRA already, it would be difficult to justify buying TWO new Big Bore Rifles...
The .375 ULTRA is quite capable of taking anything I 'might' ever hunt.

Still, there's that 'over .40' hump to be hurdled, and my penchant for practicality.

I sure appreciate all the good information and sage advice on this Forum!

The easiest way to get into a 458 Lott with no additional tweaking is to get a Ruger #1. Load and go!

nwash, The A58 AR needs the widened box. A short-cut that can work is to cut windows in the box walls. A 375 Zastava needs a wider box at the nose to become a Lott. I haven't seen a 458 WM box but I would guess that you are correct that it would only need length.

tiggertate, thanks for the start to the clarification, can you elaberat for me as why the 375 needs a wider box at the front for me. i appreciate the help