quote:

Peter- Don't know what your problem is, but your question is rather naive. Have you actually gone hunting? Ever shot a gun outside of a Rifle Range? If so You'd know the answer. Thats why I'm so surprised at your question. Please tell me you've been 25 ft from a Cape Buffalo and fired and the sound of the gunshot hurt your ears! What a memory that would be!
In my Humble opinion Muzzel Brakes are Fuckin GREAT and should be standard equipment on any gun over .375. Art Alpin and Dumb-bore can both Kiss my Ass!-Rob

Here is a logical data driven statement for you all. NOT! And note the tone! Classic Rob. I am surprised this has gone unchallenged. Then how does one argue with an irrational rant?

I assumed incorrectly, that hearing protection worked and the risk was in the field. Now we have added information (from a credible albeit un-collaborated source) that the brakes pose a hearing hazard even with average or good quality hearing protection.

Food for though, for those who choose too think. Not proof, but a caution. Imagine shooting with a brake and no hearing protection! That has to be bad.

Art Alphin also question the effectiveness of hearing protection but that book is 30yrs old, so; I did not quote those passages. I read today, Fin Aargaard also express his disdain for brakes.

And thank you to Peter for elevating the discussion and not letting Rob drag you down to his level.

quote:

Personally i for the first 25 years of shooting feld immortal acording to hearingloss. But over the last 15 years i have realized that i was not. So now i have sever dificulties to understand what people says when also exposed to background noise. The first ability you loose is the ability to hear highfrequenced sounds, like hiss and all the othe small sounds that refine language. But looking at it from the bright side, those highfrequenced words is often spoken form people with a destinkt feemail woice. (i often use this hearingloss at that specific frequense, as an excuse for not hearing my whifes comands Cool)

I silver lining! I love it. And data too, great.

While at Gander Mountain, I installed many brakes from 460 down to 250-3000 (Some folks hilnk they really look cool)

Personally, I would not own a gun with a muzzle brake...way too much noise and heat and....I know I'll get argument here...they MANY times change point of impact significantly. I've personally seen up to 6" at 50 yards (This was a 460)

Some will insist the brake was "off kilter" First thing we checked..not so!

I also observed that the REAL recoil reduction wasn't worth a fart in the wind. I figure that if you put up with all that noise....."It's gotta be doing some magic shit"

Realistically, the cumulative effect WILL show up..say 50 rounds with and 50 rounds without. There's no gain or loss for me whichever way the customer wants to go, but I've never had a truly experienced big game hunter want a muzzle brake.

I was with a Sheriff Department as a trainer for 30 plus years my early years I never used ear protection because that was the way thing was done by the time was in my 30's I was showing damage to the point that I was about to have to retire so I started using ear protection every time I shot any gun and just plain got use to them. Every one should use it all the time. In the regard to use of muzzle breaks most of the weapons system that I am around and use have some form of muzzle break with proper ear protection they appear to cause no ear damage that I am aware of there is no information posted to professional training sites stating that they all should be removed or not used. In case you think that the heavy hunting rifle are louder that police equipment at one time the SWAT team was issued H&K 33 are the same length as a MP5 but shoot 223 full auto and we even tried a 308 version and the noise and flame was a sight to be hold, I know in a perfect world that everyone could handle the recoil of a heavy rifle without a muzzle break but I know that not true so here the problem with out a break they cannot go DG hunting with a break they can. If I am paying for the hunt then a break should be my choice the guide can and should be wearing good ear protection anyway as for the hearing loss with ear protection then do what most SWAT team do wear the electronic ear protection like I have for years and you have far better hearing and hearing protection that will protect you from the sound of a flash bang or a 50 cal sniper rifle just my two cents worth and you know what two cents buys

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rnb:
I was with a Sheriff Department as a trainer for 30 plus years my early years I never used ear protection because that was the way thing was done by the time was in my 30's I was showing damage to the point that I was about to have to retire so I started using ear protection every time I shot any gun and just plain got use to them. Every one should use it all the time. In the regard to use of muzzle brakes most of the weapons system that I am around and use have some form of muzzle brake with proper ear protection they appear to cause no ear damage that I am aware of there is no information posted to professional training sites stating that they all should be removed or not used. In case you think that the heavy hunting rifle are louder that police equipment at one time the SWAT team was issued H&K 33 are the same length as a MP5 but shoot 223 full auto and we even tried a 308 version and the noise and flame was a sight to be hold, I know in a perfect world that everyone could handle the recoil of a heavy rifle without a muzzle break but I know that not true so here the problem with out a brake they cannot go DG hunting, with a brake they can. If I am paying for the hunt then a brake should be my choice the guide can and should be wearing good ear protection anyway as for the hearing loss with ear protection then do what most SWAT teams do wear the electronic ear protection like I have for years and you have far better hearing and hearing protection that will protect you from the sound of a flash bang or a 50 cal sniper rifle just my two cents worth and you know what two cents buys

Duane- Please enlighten me. Have you EVER REALLY shot a .50BMG with and without a Clam shell Muzzle Brake or a Vias design? Answer YES or NO. If you have and can't detect a REALLY significant difference in Recoil, your either on drugs or flat out Lying!
I have at least four of them here, I built myself and you are welcome to do the experiment. We can measure how far you and the gun move with a RULER! One of those light guns has shot a 4" group at 1000yrds, in FCSA competition ( check the records) and I would not shoot it without the brake myself although I have in the past. Try about a 50% recoil reduction. I have a little trick, I actually know how to machine threads concentric with the bore. I machine my own Brakes too, the same way, Concentric with the bore. Try that and you will only rarely see any change in point of impact with or without the brake. If your brake shows a POI shift you have a problem. Period, end of discussion! Something isn't Concentric or you have created a unintentional vibrational node in that barrel! Try the tuning fork test! Ever hear of The Browing Boss. Thread the barrel further and use the brake to tune out the vibration! It might even make your gun more Accurate. It WORKS! I could teach you how to fix either problem assuming you have good equipment and know basic machining. There is no Voodoo magic here! I frankly can't believe your post! I thought better of you!-Rob

Db = 10 log( P2/p1). The human ear can barely detect a 3dB change which is a Doubling in the power of the signal. i.e. 10 log (2/1)=3. Next, dB meters need to be calibrated, and just exactly how was that done? Against what standard? Most that I've seen are just pieces of crap! They give you a number and you have no idea how reliable it is. As you correctly have described where you place the meter assuming its properly calibrated has a great deal of effect on the value registered. Generally, sound levels in the 80-120db level that are transient are considered by some to be hearing safe. Not continuous, transient. Hearing Muffs can easily reduce a 150db gunshot to well within the safe level. Thats why we wear them! The best suppressors can just make a .223 hearing safe for example. Yes, I actually do also own suppressors and have even built some myself. I'd like to see lab grade db meter measurements taken with and without a muzzle brake which is designed not to increase noise. Can we see those numbers please rather than generalities and assumptions?-Rob

Rob,

Are ya really coming to the Hoot & Shoot in May? That would be fantastic! Please bring some samples of the different bullet profiles you turn for 600OK.

As for Brakes,yes I have one on my 600OK. It is a bit different than others I have seen. Instead of a right and left brake it is up and down. It is still quite loud, but makes shooting fun. I haven't yet gone beyond 900@2150, but will in the near future. I have fired it twice without the brake--not the greatest feeling in the world. Anyone wanting to shoot it w/out the brake.....knock yourself out, I'd love to watch. My 600 weighs less than 11 pounds--loaded!

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Duane- Please enlighten me. Have you EVER REALLY shot a .50BMG with and without a Clam shell Muzzle Brake or a Vias design? Answer YES or NO. If you have and can't detect a REALLY significant difference in Recoil, your either on drugs or flat out Lying!
I have at least four of them here, I built myself and you are welcome to do the experiment. We can measure how far you and the gun move with a RULER! One of those light guns has shot a 4" group at 1000yrds, in FCSA competition ( check the records) and I would not shoot it without the brake myself although I have in the past. Try about a 50% recoil reduction. I have a little trick, I actually know how to machine threads concentric with the bore. I machine my own Brakes too, the same way, Concentric with the bore. Try that and you will only rarely see any change in point of impact with or without the brake. If your brake shows a POI shift you have a problem. Period, end of discussion! Something isn't Concentric or you have created a unintentional vibrational node in that barrel! Try the tuning fork test! Ever hear of The Browing Boss. Thread the barrel further and use the brake to tune out the vibration! It might even make your gun more Accurate. It WORKS! I could teach you how to fix either problem assuming you have good equipment and know basic machining. There is no Voodoo magic here! I frankly can't believe your post! I thought better of you!-Rob

Spot on!!

Rob and Mac,

Off topic probably, but there is quite a difference in point of impact of full auto weapons with and without a brake from a bipod.

On topic, the brake for my 450 Dakota was machined concentric w bore and I was AMAZED, I mean really AMAZED that there was virtually no difference in poi with and without, even from supported sitting position.

You are a rock star for shooting a light 50 without a brake. I have never done it, and dont intend too!

Funny story, when I used my 450 in Africa with brake on for PG, the only way I could get all the staff out of my way to shoot, was to literally shove them aside and ignore the sticks and shoot.

After first shot, they kept out of my way!

(Sucker was loud).

And then there are some rifles you just cannot and brake.



Dan shooting the 500 nitro with technique. And yes, this was in full recoil!

And full recoil with a snap shot.





Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

far worse is the never-ending tinnitus

Absolutely.

Later in life? Get out of your library Steve and into the gym then you won't be such a frail old man.

Mate, the only gym in this area is jim at the pub and jim the butcher.

What I meant was that I've been shooting big rifles for over 30 years and now when I turn my head from side to side, I han hear/feel two places in that movement where it sounds a bit like tendons being torn or two mating surfaces with sand between them being moved against each other.

I haven't seen a doctor about it because I bloody detest doctors and I have no proof whatsoever that it was caused by shooting big rifles but nor would I be in the least surprised if that were the case.

My point is that fitting a mercury tube or tundsten bead arrestor is a bit like wearing hearing protection....... they certainly can't do any harm and just might do some good.

quote:

What I meant was that I've been shooting big rifles for over 30 years and now when I turn my head from side to side, I han hear/feel two places in that movement where it sounds a bit like tendons being torn or two mating surfaces with sand between them being moved against each other.

De-vein your shrimp before cooking, you have too much sand in your diet.



That sounds like some disc issue in the vertis. You should see a doc Steve before that gets serious. No, I'm not a Doc but I keep an army of them employed.

yup, I think it probably is disc problems but I'd guess it's far too late to do anything about it now.

At the moment, I don't get any pain from it at all and the fact that I'm semi retired from the field now and what shooting I do, is with a rifle equipped with a mercury tube in it suggests to me that the damage was done years ago...... and frankly, I'm not inclined to let anyone bugger about with that particular part of my anatomy because of the consequences if he stuffs it up.

I've been convinced for years that a doctor has a medical practice because he's precticing in the hope of one day getting it right and that a patient is called a patient because that's what he has to be while he's waiting for the doctor to get it right.

I've got enough problems with arthritis in my hands, knees and hips without letting anyone near my neck!

quote:

Funny story, when I used my 450 in Africa with brake on for PG, the only way I could get all the staff out of my way to shoot, was to literally shove them aside and ignore the sticks and shoot.

After first shot, they kept out of my way!

(Sucker was loud).

This makes the point. Not to be taken too literally. I assume they were not right under the gun- but; might it have been kinder to just kick a couple of them in the balls than inflict permanent hearing loss.

Recall this, more actual field experience from the receiving end:

quote:

I've even had someone let 3 shots off from a braked .416 Blaser right next to my ear whilst I was holding my binos to my eyes and telling him not to shoot yet....... and consequently I hate the bastard things
...[deleted]...
Muzzle brakes are a fuc**ng abortion that should be illegal worldwide.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I've been convinced for years that a doctor has a medical practice because he's precticing in the hope of one day getting it right and that a patient is called a patient because that's what he has to be while he's waiting for the doctor to get it right.

Shhhhhhh!!!!!

DON'T give away all of my secrets!

Andy- I've seen some massive POI shifts from full auto weapons equipped with brakes and suppressors as well as with great gunsmith built rifles that showed evidence of Bullet Impact due to non concentric threading and even from concentric threading that was off-axis. Macifej being a real world machinist knows exactly what I'm talking about. Just because the great ones have a "jet" lathe doesn't mean they actually know or even could tell if it's Wrong. Suppressors are even worse as a small tilt can easily result in a baffle or end cap strike. The bores on many Full auto guns are shot out and the bullets wobble making strikes in suppressors common. On light barrels the harmonics can be effected by the added weight of the brake also. If one is smart you can "tune" the barrel with the brake and actually significantly change POI and/or significantly improve accuracy. POI shifts rarely happen on heavy barrels as well as the effects of the harmonics change little if at all. Just basic science not voodoo.-Rob

Rob,

thanks for input.

I am not a machineist but am a shooter.

Worst poi shift for me was HK 33 from bipod with brake and AK74 from supported prone over sandbag, a battle field pick up from Paktia province in Afghanistan in 1982. (A couple of feet vertical at 200 m).

As you state, my 450 Dakota was a relatively heavy barrel, but I was still amazed how little a poi there was compared to military rifles/mg's I have shot.

Andy

I have brakes on several rifles, and none of them suffers from any significant change in point of impact when the brake is installed versus when it's replaced with a threaded cap. Maybe I'm just lucky.

BTW, brakes are wonderful for load development work when shooting heavy recoiling rifles for extended periods from the bench.

But NEVER would I use one when hunting.

Andy- Totally understand. Worst threading I ever saw was on a AK74. Out of curiosity, did you capture that gun? Any issues registering captured FAs these days? I got some of mine that way many moons ago when it was still accepted practice. Next worse case of piss poor threading I ever saw was on a factory Weatherby .30-378 that the experts at Weatherby carefully inspected and proclaimed perfectly acceptable despite the bullet metal marks on the brake! They even sent me a totally phony target to prove how well the .30-378 shot. It just wasn't shot with my gun! oops! Third worst was a brake installed by a renowned custom gunsmith who used a 1/2x28 hand die and a crescent wrench. He said he didn't need no stinking lathe to cut straight threads. been doing it that way since before dirt was dirt! I won't say who he is, but he's still at it!-Rob

I have a question--perhaps for Rob, or one or more of the other experts here.

But before I pose the question, a background or preamble should be given to understand where I'm coming from:

At 75 I'm not getting younger and I've been around this (hunting)game for about sixty years. When I advanced from a .22 LR to "real" rifles, I, like most Canadians of my era, picked up military cast-offs, like the .303 Brit in particular. And a 12-gauge. I was well armed!

As time went by, and I got a bit "smarter" and "richer", I thought I needed another "real" rifle. So, investment went into another military M98 re-barreled to .30-06. Later, a "Rifleman's Rifle" came along in the same chambering. The 'ole .30-06 worked well enough. But, we get tired of the same thing all the time... at least I do. So, the magnum craze hit: 7mm's, .300's, 338's, .375's, etc. You get the picture, I'm sure.

Then the Big Bore craze hit! That was after I got my first .45-70, and I started to have fun again! AND, in my experience, they seemed to be more effective on big game.

So, I got a couple of Ruger No.1's in .45-70 (not at the same time), and my second son found a splendid No.3 in .45-70! (Ouch!)And, I began to load them up... waaaay UP! Up to .458 Win Mag levels (yeah, that No.3 also). That was with 500gr Hornadies. I even had my "premium" load tested by a very reputable powder company in the good old USA! And the results were positive!

Eventually, my son's #3 was invested and he ended up with my original #1 and I came up with a new #1. Shot the same loads without a hitch. Then, I had mine re-worked... long-throated by .30" so I could seat the longer bullets out by that much and, in effect, increase matters as though it were a 2.4" case instead of a 2.1".

I still have that rifle, and it's my favorite. It's like a 7.8 lb (with Burris Silver Safari scope)22" .458 WM. All up, with sling, one in the chamber and five on the stock it comes in at an exact 8.5 lbs! The recoil and muzzle blast have never bothered me, though I've put several boxes of Hornady 500s down range, in addition to several boxes of 350s. Of course, I use muffs and plugs at the range, and if I do it right, the muzzle "blast" is a mere "pop".

I even shot a black bear with the 500gr (2200 fps) and I don't recall the recoil NOR the noise! I wasn't using ear protection. (Today's hunting load is much more sane: a 350 TSX at 2470 fps.)

ON THE OTHER HAND: a number of years ago, I owned an M77 Ruger in .458 WM with a 22" tube and took it bear hunting with a rather mild load: 350gr Speer at 2340 fps. The load pushing it was AA2015. On route (an old logging road) to my hunting spot (where the outfitter had the bait)I took an offhand shot at a rock about 50yds away. I didn't remember the recoil or the muzzle blast. I was NOT using ear protection.

Shortly after I got settled into my ground blind, a bear shows up, but walks past the bait, heading back into the woods directly away from me. At about 75 yards I let fly with the first shot (which hit in the short ribs and exited at the back of the skull--I learned later on examination). The bear went down in tall grass but I could see it was still wiggling, so I continued shooting in the general area of where he went down (though those shots were wasted).

THE POINT IS: the first shot busted my right ear drum. It was way louder that any that I ever shot before, even the one taken offhand while on route to the blind. And, those taken after the first shot were VERY painful. The ringing in that ear drove me nuts for several months, and even today, while I only have 15 to 20% hearing in my right ear (the one closest to the muzzle as I shoot from the left side) there's still a ringing, though not as pronounced.

QUESTION: in your view, what caused that first shot to so damage my right ear, and all those after (about 3), while that load had never previously bothered me?

Again, I add that recoil doesn't bother me all that much, either my CZ .458 WM often fired at Lott levels or, even more so, the light No.1 Ruger with full house loads. If I were younger, I'd probably have my CZ rechambered to .460 WBY. But at this stage, I don't want to overdo the recoil effect on my one good eye, as retinal damage is more serious than loosing hearing in one ear, IMV.

Any input is appreciated.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
efbie..
do you reload your 505 gibbs, yourself, on your own press?

until you gain experience, you are still inexperienced.

how i act, is how you find me in person. one is generally treated in the same vein they interact. responding in kind, it is called.

you shoot off your mouth, but don't have the experience. that's annoying. don't like it? then change YOUR actions... because if you are waiting for ME to change, you are backing up. the only person you control is yourself. hell, son, you'd have an easier time ordering my dog about .. good luck with that.

kick sand at me, the first couple times, you get "do you mind".. afterwards it becomes a known that you are merely trolling/looking for a fight.

you've not been extremly disrespected here.. quite the contrary, your experience has been noted. Your ATTITUDE, which greatly exceeds your deeds, is a PITA

since YOU keep bringing up the 600 design .. please list all the ultra big bores you have designed, funded, and brought to a shootable condition, with results being verified by 3rd parties.

none?
Okay, how many rifles have YOU gunsmithed to make feed in a single stack OR made feed?

none?

I guess not a single one you've brought from concept to reality, did the loaded dev, feeding, and solved all of its problems, to deliver the most in an affordable action?

still zero?

let's see .. (0*0)/0=your net experience in the matter of design of ultra big bores

raise that to the power of gibbs cases you have reloaded
((0*0)/0)^0

Let me know if i've missed any of your prior work, okay?

do you reload your gibbs, yet? do you even have a press than CAN?

then-- have you ever shot a big bore with a muzzle brake (not a BMG)? that should be an easy one... reaching out here.. trying to find ground where you life experience builds some common ground for those your FREELY criticis

several VERY topical questions and assertions, there, FB.

When do you plan on answering them?

Yes, please, correct my incorrect assumptions, and show us you experience.. you laid down the gauntlet that you have been "extremely disrespected" .. show us YOUR basis ...
show me I am incorrect in summation of your experiences as noted ..

or shutup about being "disrespected" when, in fact, you are being held in accurate regard for your ATTITUDES...

that you are a tyro isn't a bad thing- we all started there ..but being a JERK to people how actually HAVE experience is rather rude.

Bob- I'm not a MD but it sure sounds like some underlying medical condition like a viral infection of the inner ear etc. Might if been a contributing factor. Perhaps CCMDoc or Rip could add their professional opinion. I have some high freq hearing loss acquired during military service myself.basically, if it hurts I stop doing it and if it feels good I do more of it. Shooting big bores feels pretty good to me. -Rob

Jeffe- I think we have flushed out Dumb-Bore and established him as a Troll beyond a shadow of a doubt! I offered a most definitive test of his assertions and as I expected he's not man enough to experience the Truth first hand! Muzzel brakes do significantlyreduce recoil, decrease muzzel jump allowing for faster second/ third shot recoveries, can improve accuracy and because of the above will improve the average guys marksmanship. Properly constructed they will not effect POi and don't automatically increase muzzel blast. Some may choose not to use them and that's an
Individual decision, but let's weigh the opinions of criminal liars and thirds like AA very carefully. Anyone want to shoot my light .50bmg with and without the brake to compare recoil and noise?-Rob

Thanks Rob...

Strange, that's never been mentioned before and I've never thought of it. But that does make some sense.

I was inclined to think that it may have been a "spike" in psi as it was somewhat of a reduced load with a medium powder. No basis for that other than thinking something changed with that load because that first shot and those subsequent were very loud! Or, it may have been, as has been mentioned, that in the blind the muzzle blast effect was different than in the open. I dunno...

Anyway, I NOW use hearing protection while hunting, and those WALKERS that Steve mentioned will be my next acquisition without too much doubt.

Thanks again,

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob, it could have been the immediate environment where you took the shot. Some places are like geographical echo chambers.

I once shot a .338 Win. Mag. in a sand river in Namibia. Low lying and both banks were lined with trees and heavy brush.

Nowhere for the blast to go but right back at my eardrums. Loudest damned thing I have ever suffered through. Instant ear-ringing tinnitus.

Still have it, more or less.

Michael raises a good point. There probably are situations where sound waves can get amplified perhaps to unacceptable levels. Never experienced one myself while hunting but I understand the possibility. I've fired FA weapons in inclosed spaces and without hearing protection it's incredibly loud and your ears do ring for awhile afterwards. Generally Big Bore rifles have a lower frequency sound than small bores and they don't bother my ears nearly as much. If you've ever heard the low frequency pulse of a .50 bmg M2 you know what I mean. .60s and .700s have even lower frequency signatures. I too always use good hearing protection like noise canceling muffs but have also found a number of suppressors to make .30 caliber weapons hearing safe i.e < 120 db.-Rob

Out of the dozens of rifles I own only 3 wear any type of break. All 3 were bought used because they were a good deal and already had them installed. The 300wm and 458 wm have kdf type breaks and one of the 375s is a magnaport job. I can see a slight increase in accuracy in the 458 but no real reduction in recoil. The 375 is accurate but kicks worse than the 458. It does however control muzzle rise much better. The 300 wm is another story. Almost no recoil and extremely accurate. It will put 3 rounds in less than a quarter size hole all day at 100 yards. I have to say that I think it is the loudest of the 3 to anyone next to me and is one friend loosing son of a bitch in that regard. It dosnt make sense to me that the smallest would seem to be the loudest but it might be because of my previous hearing loss and the pitch compared to the other two rifles rather than a reality. The truth is I dont much like breaks and really dont see much need for them. Now a supressor on the other hand is a very usefull tool.

quote:

one friend loosing son of a bitch in that regard.....I dont much like breaks and really dont see much need for them....

Seems like a consensus view. Brakes maybe useful, but there are greater potential risks to hearing and a big issue when in a group situation such any guided hunts.

Here is another quote regarding brakes on safari. This is by Finn Aagaard, well respected PH and gun writer:

quote:

... Besides there are usually others to consider, such as trackers and the professional hunter and they would like to hear too. Both site and sounds are vital when things get close on dangerous game ... Almost anyone can learn to tolerate a 375H&H and place his shots adequately with it; if he cannot do so, I would question his right to hunt dangerous game at all

so, still, nuttin?

I asked for experience an opinions. While some have nothing but anger and distraction to contribute others have real life experience to share. I never owned a brake and for certain will never use one for hunting. I can learn from others - in person, in print or on the web.

Here is just one more constructive input to contrast with the above dribble. More hearing damage.

quote:

I once shot a .338 Win. Mag. in a sand river in Namibia. Low lying and both banks were lined with trees and heavy brush.

Nowhere for the blast to go but right back at my eardrums. Loudest damned thing I have ever suffered through. Instant ear-ringing tinnitus.

Still have it, more or less.

Do I ask for a thank you for bringing this relevant issue to the attention of the forum? Heck No. No thanks needed.

Edit: I quoted Mike, incorrectly. I implied his 338 had a braked, which it did not. And, Mike clearly stated he would never hunt with a brake. My bad.

Actually, you stated your harms and injuries by other members. I have stated, flatly, that your expereince is held in all due regard, and offered you chance to address my statements.

YOU brought up your pretended slights, injuries, and actions of others, sir. YOU took YOUR thread off topic at that point. Own your own actions, sir.

So, you started a BS thread over something that will never actualyl enter your range of experience. based of a bias .. how droll.

Do buy a reloading press for your gibbs, and actually learn a bit about big bores, please. You'l be amazed what spending $139 dollars can do for your education.

I have asked, repeatedly, for your credentials .. i feel i can safely assume, by your lack of answers, that you either A - have nothing to present as prior work, or B - you will continue to be dishonest in your interactions by pretending experience.

You, sir, are a tyro. Unfortunatly, you believe yourself to be expert enough to measure those that have prior work.

one hopes that you will learn to reload big bores, then perhaps PERSONALLY build a couple, and then, in the off times, design and implement a cartridge that matches your pretended challenges to the cutting edge (hardly status quo)

indeed, one could be utterly embarassed by one's lack of background in the matter so freely criticised ..

you'll note, of course, that the 338 winmag story is neither YOUR OWN, nor a big bore ..

Rob has kindly offered you a chance to shoot a true ultra bigbore, likely as many as you wish to shoot ... and you don't even respect the depth of the offer enough to decline that offer.

your posts, without experience, but decrying pretended authority, are a waste of electronic ink, as it where.

quote:

I once shot a .338 Win. Mag. in a sand river in Namibia. Low lying and both banks were lined with trees and heavy brush.

Nowhere for the blast to go but right back at my eardrums. Loudest damned thing I have ever suffered through. Instant ear-ringing tinnitus.

Still have it, more or less.

Are you trying to pass on M.R story as your own without putting his name with the quote..

This is like driving past a car wreck and being unable to turn away from the carnage.

I do manage to avoid this thread but every now and then I can't help it.

Fourbore doesn't like muzzle brakes and has the greatest contempt for those that use them, at least that seems quite apparent from his writings on Accurate Reloading fora.

Forebore doesn't like cartridges with rebated rims and has the greatest contempt for those that use them, at least that seems quite apparent from his writings on Accurate Reloading fora.

OK - this is how he feels and what he believes. He is entitled to his opinion.

Based upon my interpretation of his posts, for Fourbore it is like religion. And like people of faith, there is no convincing him that his "religion" isn't the correct one.

And again, like people of faith, he points to his version of the "good books" and chooses the passages that support his set of beliefs. We all do that to some extent.

I have friends of different faiths, some with none. All are welcome in my home and we have no qualms about discussing any and all of it. The problems start when someone starts to tell me that I have to believe what they believe. It only gets worse when every time they visit they start the same conversation and attempt "conversion". And when they try to recruit friends to assist in the conversion, I ask them to leave and never return until they are able to share my table without trying to convert me. True story which happened with a close family friend - didn't see him for over 10 years. Lost his wife, children and brother for the same reason.

This isn't my home or my table which is why I try to avoid this thread.

Fourbore, please consider this as friendly advice - the same my father gave to our dear friend:
Some of the people here have their own "religion" and it is different than yours. Everyone has heard you in this and several other threads and know your positions on these subjects. Stop trying to convert people to your view point on these subjects - there really is a difference between offering an opinion and trying to convince others that it is the only correct one.

quote:

Fourbore doesn't like muzzle brakes and has the greatest contempt for those that use them, at least that seems quite apparent from his writings on Accurate Reloading fora.

I am in good company regarding the use of brakes. Very good company.

As for contempt. I have not used the words such as "dumb", "troll" or "kiss my ass". I sense a certain insecurity or hyper-sensitivity among those who either sell brakes, or rifles & components that require brakes or are heavily invested in same. Not my problem. My point is to warn others. Not to change anyone mind.

A lot of people have been injured by brakes. Innocent bystanders in some cases. Three professional hunters, two posted by me and a third by himself, unanimous. Are those three PH all showing contempt? Maybe, but for those having lost hearing it may be justified?

I think next, I will start a thread on optimum magazine capacity! Oh boy -- another train wreck. This time, I will include a poll.

Doc,
Pearls before swine, as the saying goes.

I thought I had made myself clear.

Although I think that a brake has its uses, and in fact can be quite useful, I NEVER use a brake while hunting.

My .338 was NOT BRAKED when I had the problem described above.

Sorry Mike. I quoted you incorrectly, I will go back and see if I can fix that up and maintain some sense of coherency in the thread, subsequent whining and all.

Why is it it necessary to continue flagellating the deceased equine?
Peter.

I was so hoping that the mighty Heym could be used to Educate Dumb-Bore.The video would have surpassed any of Said's heroes. He probably senses what the outcome would be upon dropping the hammer so to speak, on a un-braked power-house like that! I would not do it myself under any circumstances, but then, I know how valuable muzzle brakes really are and I can do the math! Oh well, I never thought he had the guts anyway.A real alligator, all mouth and no ears! Not to bright either. You can always flush them out with a suitable challenge! Dumb-Bore get this straight, I do in fact, hold you in complete contempt!I'm outa here!-Rob

quote:

Dumb-Bore get this straight, I do in fact, hold you in complete contempt!I'm outa here!-Rob

What else is new? Should I feel any different?