quote:

Start at post on August 21

Michale,

I know I got a CZ lemon too. I admit it. I dont think it is a bad gun rather a QC problem. But, I sure hate to be in a position of arguing for CZ vs Winchester. No, I wont do that. I have a M70 in 375 and it is a great gun. Right out of the box, no tweeks needed.

Where would you rate the M700 for a custom build? That was the origional question? Wouldn't even the CZ action be a better for a custom build? Almost any of the above mentioned be better? Or no?

fourbore

A long time ago I was doing some test work with a 300 RUM, Rem Sendero. I am shooting along, and reach up to remove a fired case, but nothing is there? No bolt handle? What? I look, bolt handle is gone? Look down, and there it lays on the ground. HEH HEH, weld broke so the bolt fell off. I laughed a bit, took it back to the dealer I got it from and he sent it to Remington. I thought little of it. Couple of weeks it comes back, I go to pick it up and there is a $20.00 charge for repairs? It was a new rifle, I thought they had a warranty? The letter I received stated that since the trigger had been adjusted the warranty was no longer valid, thus the $20 charge. OK. Well the more I thought about it, the more it bothered me, and the more upset I became.

The next morning I immediately came to the office, this was heavy on my mind! I wrote Remington a letter asking what the trigger had to do with the bolt handle falling off? Of course I was my typical self and it was a long 2 page dissertation concerning the matter. In short I told them I had $20 and $20 was of little concern to me. If they had told me $20 for shipping and handling, I would have never thought more of it, but $20 to weld the bolt handle back on and the warranty gone because the trigger had been adjusted was too much for me to bear! I told them that I would never in my life purchase another Remington rifle, shotgun, or any firearm with the Remington name on it, and that every single one I currently owned would be for sale as I would no longer have one under my roof. I asked them if they knew how to spell WINCHESTER?

I took the rifle back to my dealer, told him to put it on the shelf that I never wanted to see another Remington again as long as I am alive. The rest of mine were given to my kids, sold, or disposed of in other ways. I still have a few that I had built years ago, but other than that, Remington and I parted ways years ago! All over $20. HEH HEH. You know they never even had the balls to answer my letter? I suppose they trashed it.

Does that answer your question?

I get teased about that once and awhile from some of my pals. In fact that damned Brian at SSK every once and awhile will send one of my Winchesters back with some masking tape over the Winchester, and Remington wrote on the masking tape! He gets quite a reaction out of that at times!

HEH

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

quote:

Start at post on August 21

Michale,


Where would you rate the M700 for a custom build? That was the origional question? Wouldn't even the CZ action be a better for a custom build? Almost any of the above mentioned be better? Or no?

Let me give you a little more direct to the point answer from just my opinion on the matter. Really I am not a good judge, I am "terribly" prejudiced" when it comes to some things in life. And this is one of those things. If it don't say Winchester on it, it might as well not exist. It it's not a 1911 45 acp, then it's something else, and of little value to me. I have and like a lot of my Ruger Rifles, lot's of #1s, but since I realize I will never as long as I live take a #1 out, many I have not even shot, then I have started selling some of them off. I love a Marlin Guide Gun, but I love a Winchester 1886 better, so I wack the barrels to 18 inches and make Winchester Guide Guns out of them! The marlins stay at home, I might as well get rid of them. We use M71s and Marlins to make our 50 B&M Alaskans on. Well, I like the M71s far better of course--but all mine are the hi grade 1986 Brownings! I discovered once you remove the barrel from those guns, then it no longer says browning on it anywhere--So from then on they are Winchester M71's as far as I care! So you see, I am not one to ask for a reasonable, unbiased opinion on some things. On matters concerning Winchester or something else, then you guys are ALWAYS going to get the same answer from me. My advice is that on a subject such as this, and you really want an unbiased opinion, you need not ask me, I won't give you an unbiased opinion on this. I suppose one could spend enough money on some of this other trash to get them to work, but I would just as soon get something that would be a little easier to get to that point to begin with and have something to be proud of in the end.

Like everything from a production run--Even Winchester can have issues too. But in every case I have ever encountered whatever the issue is, it's small, and easy to sort out. Unless of course it's one of the 125 rifles from the old Custom Shop in 470 Capstick! HEH HEH---They put the wrong barrels on those! They are supposed to be .474--both of mine are .477! Now that's a hard one to sort out--but today I will just have some special .477 caliber bullets made! HEH---Yippie!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
CZ Fans

Start at post on August 21

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/5991094831

Wow! What a PITA!! Has anybody had any experience with the CZ big bore over/unders?? I was thinking of stopping into their showroom in Prague the next time I'm there...

quote:

Originally posted by sfhr:
Has anybody had any experience with the CZ big bore over/unders??

Robgunbuilder has one in .458 Win. Mag. that he uses quite effectively!

George

For whatever it is worth, I went through the same decision making a couple of months ago for my first big bore. I ended up with the Winchester 70 in .375 H&H and have been very happy with the choice. The rifle has been accurate and smooth as silk. The trigger was easy to adjust (but did need the adjustment). Reloading has allowed for low recoil practice and even full power loads don't really hurt. It may not be as big as some of the other calibers but I think it was a good place to start.

I think the 404 doesn't get much attention as a beginners big bore as its quite a costly investment to use as a jumping off point.

My buddy *he is Luis.L on AR* has a R700 458 Win Mag because it was what he could afford in a LH rifle he seems pretty pleased with it so far. He is also having a 375 built on another R700 again, because he is limited by funds and being left handed.

I'm with Michael on this one, given the choice, I always go with Winchester. I have 5, a pre-64, SS classic, and 2 post-PF and a 1300 20 ga. Always been good to me! Although I DO have 1 R700, only because it was a steal and was the easiest option for my ultralight build *still in progress* and a 1903 A3. Couldn't pass that up, got it for a song here on AR and my very first hunt was carrying grand dads 1903

How about a "brand new" shoulder killing 458 Win Mag for $539 plus shipping? This is how you do it. You start by getting a brand new Stevens 200 long action rifle in 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag ($338 @ Abeleammo.com) and a 458 Win Mag Shaw barrel w/ wrench and go no-go dies at Barownell for $201.You will also need to spend about $10 to buy some epoxy and lead to fill the barrel channel and ass end of the plastic stock as it would weight about 7 1/2 lb. without the extra weight added. You will also need a bench vise to hold the barrel when you take off and put back on the nut. For about $100 more you start with a new long action Savage that would have the better trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by 500MagMan:
I would like to build a big bore i was thinking a 458 WIN Mag and was wondering if a first timer might not like that ....

Go for it! There's nothing wrong with the .458WM!

I'm not exactly new to this game, my 75th coming up in December, but 3.5 years ago I purposely chose the .458 Win Mag over the Lott, in a CZ550. Now, just about everyone on AR knows that means the true magnum-length action, allowing monolithics with bands to be seated as long as the Lott, or longer, allowing anything the Lott can do to be equaled, or surpassed, by the CZ in .458 WM, because the Winchester .458 has a MUCH longer freebore or leade. But, even at SAAMI specs there's no problem to safely attain 2200 fps from 500s with today's powders, from a 24" tube. Mine's a 25".

The late Bob Hagel wrote a piece for BIG BORE Rifles and Cartridges (Wolfe Publication, 1991),in which he tested a Browning Safari Model in .458 Win Mag with a 24" barrel. 4 out of 7 loads testing the 500gr Hornady RNSP surpassed 2200 fps! The powders were: IMR4320; N-203 and 748BR (no longer available). But with today's H335; AA2230; AA2460; H4895 and perhaps IMR 4320, 2200 fps is possible from a 24" without undue stress. That depends on barrel condition, length and components used of course.

When I load mine long, 2300 fps is easy, but in my view, unnecessary.

My last 10 blogs have been on the .458WM vs other Big Bores, and you can read them here:

www.bigbores.ca

Over the past 15 or so years, ALL new rifles purchased have had issues, including (without any special order): Ruger, Remington, Savage, H&R, SAKO, Marlin, CZ, and my oldest son (now 51)still has an unsolved issue with his Winchester "Big Bore" 94 in .356 Winchester.So, I have difficulty "seeing" where one model, or make, is preferable to others, per se. My gunsmith--a world class one--who has done all work for me for 20+ years, says that ALL makes and models at times have had issues, and especially the newer ones.

Right now, I'm looking at another .458 Win Mag in a Browning Safari, in VG condition. I just think the price is a little too rich!

Just my take on these matters... YMMV.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

In reading most of this I see the .458 lott vs. .458 WM come up alot. My only 2 cents on this is with a .458 WM you can use a standard length action, just like the mauser I picked up. The last thing I would want is a magnum action shooting a standard length cartridge. If All I had was a magnum action (like the CZ I think) I would go lott for sure, cause it makes sense. I have 3 magnum length action M70's, and I wanted a .458 cal, somthing that was a little lighter and handier, and sized right for the cartridge, so I went with a standard action VZ24 in .458 WM.

Funny my .458 is the lightest rifle I have in my african calibers. Funny how a huge hole in the tube does that. Should be a gas to shoot hehe

Although as of now I have no practical experience with the .458 WM, I am pretty sure it will do what I need it to do.

All opinions will vary of course.

Does anyone have any insight into serial numbers to look out for to check CZs for potential problems? I have an OLD CZ550 Safari in .416 Rigby, that I bought the second year they were produced---I had been wanting a .416 Rigby for years and finally I found one that was affordable. Of course it had the old hog back stock, as there was no American models, or synthetics offered back then.