The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores First Big Bore 375 vs 416 vs 404Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Mike metal work is done....Bob was regulating my express sites this weekend he said. I suppose then it's off to Waghorn to shape my blank. I also suppose Bob will work out a bill for me  | |||
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PC, Just as a very rough guess....if a Kreiger barrel was brought in and a Dakota action in the white what do you reckon Bob would charge to contour the barrel, blue it and blue the action and fit sights to the barrel. Not quarter rib, just island sights. A mate of mine is just doing a couple of numbers on buying a blank from Dressels and sending it to Dakota and the whole rilfe comes out from Dakota Vs bringing the blank in with a barrel and Dakota action. What would Ross charge for a stock now with forend tip, checkered grip with the steel outline. Your roughest guess will do. Mike | |||
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PS, Did you buy a few 1000 404 cases  Mike | |||
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Mike, I think Dakota charges about twice what I could get similar work done for by a fine gunsmith. Sure Dakota does fine work, surely as good as it gets, for what it is, but their overhead is high. So does your friend require the factory original Dakota for resale value, less depreciation right out of the box? | |||
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Ron, A bit of a mixture of ease of doing and I think Dakota will probably have a better over all style than he would get out here. Resale is probably another part of the deal but not at the top of the list. But he is checking the price. It depends a bit how he goes when he starts phoning them up next week. If they are the same as the dealings I have had with Wby once you move up from their standard stuff then I think he will just do Dakota. Wby are superb. They even ring you tell you the gusn have been shipped. Then they ring to confirm the agent has sent then to the gun shop I nominated. Their downside is they are pricey a soon as you move from any catologued rifle, that is, a rifle they have a picture of. Basically they no longer the deal to the dealer or the import agent. I would really like one of their Crown Customs in 378 but done as Build a Custom Gun but it is out of my reach for this years order. I am thinking this year I will get another 378 that is like the pair that have arrived but done as Build a Custom gun with the wood etc. The two I have are sort of in between. Our friends at Wby have the H&H and Purdey training manual it is just that the numbers are smaller. But where they are good out here the importers of Wby are our biggests importers of guns/ammo and gun related stuff (all brands) and they would probably be one of the biggest single outlets for Wby anywhere. My mate would do the Wby thing but they are a bit loud for him Mike | |||
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Ron, Just to add on something, I think our gun blokes out here are at their best with the Mauser stuff and the 404 sort of thing like PC is doing. For example, the blok who will stock PCs rifle has restocked over 200 doubles and probably does not even know what a 300 Ultra is. Bob De Vries that did PC's metal has reamers for things like 7 X 57, 300 and 375 H&H, 9.3 X 62, 404, 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs. Australia's top custom gunsmiths are very much in that sort of league. Alf would love them. In the state where PC lives there are piles of original stuff in bolt action and double rilfe. I belong to the Cheve Corvette brigrade Mike | |||
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Mike, What cartridge does your mate want that rifle chambered in? Careful about claiming affinity for Chevy Corvettes in public. They are built by rednecks in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I only own 3 Mark V's, but my .378 Weatherby is a (cringe) CZ550 in a synthetic stock, but so what, I am a Chevy Corvette fan too. I think the Reimer Johannsen rifles are about the best quality I have seen in the "safari-type" rifles of blue and walnut. | |||
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I thought i posted on this... I firmly believe that one would be foolish to "start" with the 375, as it's known and large recoil (did it go off?) is only at the TOP of it's loading... Get a 458 lott (same price on everything except bullets... .458 bullets CAN be cheaper) get 1000 rem 405 gr bullets, and KEG of RL 15, and start with a 1500 fos (classic like 45/70 type load) and work up... You have all the potential advantages of the 375 and 416's, except it's ALSO in the new "cool" caliber, that can be sold quickly later, if you decide to. Bullet weight from NOTHING (250gr barnes X) to HUGE 600 gr bullets can be had, mostly pretty cheap. the 405s go for 12¢ and shipping There's NOT a 375 jacketed bullet in that price range.. I am NOT being cheap here, I am being practical.. Since one must train to become accustumed to these recoil levels, shooting HUNDREDS of round vs one hundred, for the same price, is cost indusive to shoot more!! Get a lott, get a LOT (heh) jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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375 H&H and would like to follow with a 300 H&H. He has a lot of Rem 700 Stainless with match barrels, Jewell triggers, Nightforce scopes and so on. So he wants a couple of nice wood guns and will prbably end up junking the Remingtons and getting an HS Precision or Nesika repeater action. His current rifles are number 4 and 5 barrels and he has been to Africa 4 times and shot about 130 of the plains animals up to Eland. He goes again in 2006 and is trying to gather enough Valium for me to make the plane trip. I hate fucking planes. Athough we both want to do the camels before then. I have owned a lot of Wbys in the past and what I lie about them is that they seem to create some sort of atmosphere for me where i just fire a couple of shots without pressing on further looking for this and looking for that. The other thing I like about them epsecially when you get to the expensive ones is that they sort of sit out on their own. You don't have these painful mind games of should it be a Mauser or a pre 64 or a Dakota etc. Lastly, in recent times I have become big on loading the big case back to standard ballistics. In other words if I wanted a 270 tomorrow I would get a 270 Wby/7mm Rem and load 130s at at around 3150. Sort of like cruising around easy with a big V8 manual. I think Saeed learnt that sometime ago, hence the 375/404s Mike | |||
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Getting back to bmp's question, I own a .450 Rigby (currently for sale), a .404 and a .375. I have taken all of them to Africa and been truly happy with the performance of each. However, the .375 makes the others just a tad redundant. If I were a rich man (music begins here). . . who could hunt elephant and other giants annually, I would take the .375 and the .450 each trip. If I were affluent and could hunt plains game and buffalo annually I would take the .404 on each trip. If I went broke and had to sell off everything but one rifle and hunt everywhere I could scrabble, beg, and pimp to pay for, I would keep the .375. It is the one versatile caliber world-wide. Sarge Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle . . . for one hundred years! | |||
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Ron, Is the Prechtl M98 Mauser Magnum the rifle that comes up on the SigArms site under Magnum mauser. I thought they were close to $10000US. How much is a Johansen. By "this and that" with the Wby I mean I don't seem to get caught up trying this load or that load in an endless chase that leaves one exausted and with the rifle usually shooting worse at the end of the day than when you started. It is just a pesonality thing nothoing to to do with the mechanics of the rifle. I have the same with 300 Win mag and 375 H&H. With 300 mag I get all caught up with ballistic coefficients and the velocity must exceed 3100 with 180s and so on and so forth. A friend of mine who is a bit of a Wby collector bought a plain Accumark in 30/378. He loved it because he just cruised it at the 3150 to 3250 with 180s. Mike | |||
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Jeffe, I have to agree with you about the Lott and its being so versital. These are the same reasons I went with a Lott for my heavy rifle. Cast loads can also be made up even cheaper, AA-5744, 30gr - 40gr. with 420gr thru 500gr. Lots of ways to feed it and practice makes better.  Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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O.K. Mike, I can understand that. Prechtl makes the same actions for SigArms and Johannsen. The SigArms Mauser Banner rifle in .450 Dakota was only $5500 US while the Johannsen .416 Rigby was $10,000 at Cabelas. The wood to metal fit was better on Johannsen. Johannsen came with Prechtl scope mounts machined into the square bridges. The SigArms is the same action with no provisions for scope, unaltered square bridges, and it has a Mauser flag safety, instead of the M70-style safety of the Johannsen. The SigArms .450 Dakota weighs 9.5 pounds. The Johannsen .416 Rigby is over 10 pounds, but prettier. They have both versions of the SigArms Mauser pictured at the wb site. One has a three position safety, and the other has the Mauser flag like mine, the cheaper version. That 1998 limited edition anniversary model may have been the more expensive. They are mass producing them as above for 5.5K now. Same action except for safety and scope mount+/-. | |||
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Ron, In fact he only just phoned me and he is going to get a Dakota action, Kreiger barrel, blank from Dressels and have it all done out here. Mike | |||
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Mike, Good decision I would say. 500groans has worn me out with his witty banter. I gotta go find some toothpicks to prop my eyelids open ...  | |||
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Sometimes he gets that way. Someone must have sent him a Weatherby catologue in the mail Perhaps even worse, a Remington catologue may have come on the same day.Mike | |||
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Mike, for the metal work contour barrel $150 Island Sight base with flip up express $550 (all hand made) Normal Blue $50.00 Rust Blue $350 Fit barel etc. $200 Ross for stock work with your mate supplying the blank $2000.00 Thats at a guess. Some of the work I have seen from Bob is the best I have seen in my time. | |||
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PC, Well it looks like my mate has decided he will get a Dakota action, Kreiger barrel, blank from Dressels and get Bob and Ross to do the rest. I don't know how rougg a Dakota is in th white so that might effect the bluing price but not enough to matter. He just has to check if M70 Jewell riggers will go on Dakotas, which they should. If not he will buy a M70 375 and toss the stock and barrel. Is Ross still offerening two stocks. I had him do one for me in about 1996 for a Model 70 and that was $1350 but for $2000 he said that was more or less doing the inside as good as the outside and for the chequering to pass the magnifying glass test  Bobs work is cheaper than we thought it would be. How long as Ross quoted you to do the stock. Mike | |||
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Mike, don't quote me on that price thats just my guess work mate......Ross is saying March for my .404 stock but I would be happy for it to go out to June/July as I have gotton in up to my nuts for a block of land I can barely afford (all happened this Sunday Gone  ) | |||
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PC, Just wanted a rough idea. My mate has now changed to heading to a Granite Mountain action instead of Dakota. Waghorn is quick with the stock. Had he already done some of it or is that from scratch. Mike | |||
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quote: IMHO once you get to 375 caliber, sectional density can overcome diameter due to better penetration. The 350 gr .375 has a SD of .356 or just a tad more than the 400 gr .416...wound channels will be nearly identical due to the additional velocity of the 375 RUM and the toughness of the Woodleigh. | |||
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Mike thats from scratch..........but you know the custom rifle trade I would not hold Ross to March even if I really wanted it then. | |||
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Most of my DG hunting with bolt actions has been with the .375, 416 Rem and the 404 Jefferys...I have never felt the need for more power. My favorite is the 416 Rem, tied for first place by the 404 Jefferys and there is no difference between them except that the Jefferys has romance.... The .375 is a great gun but I like a bit more juice for dangerous game, but only if you can handle the extra recoil... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores First Big Bore 375 vs 416 vs 404
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and plenty for anything in the Americas, but it doesn't have .416 stopping power - they may overlap in range, but you're relying on velocity to do the job, and relying on velocity can get you in trouble.