I am planning on my first big bore but don't know which caliber to buy. I will go to Africa in the next 10 years but the gun will be used mostly for fun (whitetails, coyotes, etc.). Any comments on which to buy. I do not think I am too sensitve to recoil but only time with a big bore will tell. FWIW, I currently do not reload but would be willing to learn.

I had exactly your dilemna and it was an easy decision for me, I went with the 375 H&H and I love it.

Technically, I think the 375 is actually classified as a medium bore. Nevertheless, I would opt for the 375 as it is a little more versatile than the others and ammo is readily available/cheaper. I started with the 375 and recently purchased a 416 Rigby. Both are fun to shoot.

Although it doesn't do much for me, the 416 Remington is a pretty versatile "big bore." You could feasably use it for NA hunting, and still not want for more in Africa.

375 for a few reasons.

Sierra, Speer, Hornady and Nosler make virtually no bullets in 416 and none in 404

The 375 is about the upper end of recoil where you can shoot the rifle without any compromises to recoil.

If you feel you would like something that is a bit more cannon like than the 375 then I would get the CZ in 458 Lott or 458 Win. The good thing about these two (as compared to the 416s) is all the 45/70 type bullets than can be used in them when you start reloading. But they don't have the practicality of the 375 because their velocities are much lower and when loaded with full power handloads (as opposed to reduced loads) or factory ammo their recoil is way above the 375.

Mike

I personally think the .416 Rigby is just a truly great round.

I've shot .375s, and I don't have any complaints about one, and they are a bit cheaper on brass than a .416, but there *ARE* a lot of good bullets out there for a .416, and they all do their jobs well.

A .416 has excellent penetration, and hunting in North America, you're not going to mess up much, if any, meat with that round.

It's fun to shoot, and if you want a "big bore", the .416 is a great starter as you can definately tell it's a step up from the run of the mill .30-06s and 7mm's all over the market, without being too unbearable on your shoulder.

bm, I'd start with a 375 (you'll love it, doesn't kick very bad at all) and use it for everything in your neck of the woods. I'd then budget for a 416 of any flavor. You may be lucky enough to get to fire a few before making up your mind. If you don't belong to a shooting club, I suggest you join your local club. There will probably enough guys who generally shoot stuff like that.

Probably much better to start with a .375 and shoot it a lot. Factory ammo is cheaper and it's easier on the recoil side than the bigger rifles. You will get a lot more practice and use out of .375 than the bigger rifles.

In my mind, the .416 and above are specialized rifles with noticeable recoil. The .375 is a great "all around" gun with manageable recoil.

Regards,

Terry

I would probably start with the .375 H&H if I had never shot anything larger than a 30-06. I didn't start there because I was already shooting a couple of .358 STA's which I consider superior to the .375 H&H, comparing more to the fast .375's and .378. I started with the .416 Rem then a .416 Rigby was next and they have served me well. My shooting of them have been fun although my hunting with them has only been one trip, and looking forward to more. It just takes shooting the bigger bores to condition yourself with the .416 being more versital if you want more than plains game. Good luck and good shooting.

I went though the same question a few years back I had a 338wm so that handled the med. bores. For me big bores start at 40 cal and above. So I built a 416 taylor and it as worked out well. But then I love to reload and goof around with ammo. At the time if I could have found a 416 rem in a stainless SYt. control feed rifle I would have brought one of those. I would pick something bigger then a 375 for a big bore.

quote:

---

but the gun will be used mostly for fun (whitetails, coyotes, etc.).

---

Easy one......375 H&H

Another vote for the 375H&H.

375H&H

More bullets
less recoil
less weight
cheaper bullets
cheaper brass
uses less powder
ammo readily available anywhere
will stop anything
shoots farther than most shooters can shoot

enough said!

Buy both, but get the 375 first.

I bought a 5-weight fly rod, and I'm hard pressed to say I need a 4 or a 6.

If you get a 416 or 404, think about how much harder it will be to convince yopurself you need a 458, or a 375 for that matter.

H. C.

You'll be surprised how much recoil a .375 has. Better to start there.

Whatever you do, don't get a 375! It will cause all of your other rifles to collect dust and rust in the safe.
I bought one and my custom built -06 barely sees the light of day anymore. After 20 years she just sits in the corner and sulks. Had to take her out and shoot a bobcat the other day just to her her speak.

Get a 375 first. The 375 H&H is one of if not the most versatile rounds created. The recoil is very controllable but you know you are shooting a rifle of some capability. For the non reloader it is a no brainer (you can get good rounds for reasonable $) but for the loader there are tons of options out there. For someone just stepping above the usual -06 rifles it is a great and natural progression.

After getting aquainted with your 375 and you yearn for something "stronger" buy a 416 or better yet a 458 Lott to satisfy your cravings. But by all means keep your 375. With no DG on the menu for me, the big guns are my fun rock breakers and shoulder pushers but the 375 can be my everyday using rifle.

I love the bigger guns for their power and punch but the old 375 is just so nice to shoot.

John

Ok, we both live in Oklahoma, so let's get together and go to the range and shoot some rifles. We can start with 338, then 375 and finish with 416. Once you have had the chance to experience each, then you can decide.

My email is in my profile, so shoot me a note and we can get some other AR folks together for another big bore shoot at the OKCGC. Cook some burgers and talk rifle trash.

A Smarter idea is to get them all

in all seriousness the .375 H&H is a great spot to start.

Good advice re the 375 for starters. My first big bore is a 416Rem mag and I am still getting acquainted with it but I have a 375 in the wings simply because ammo and projectiles are so readily available for it anywhere.

You cannot go wrong with a 375 then at a later stage get a medium/big bore for the hell of it!

PC,

You will be in deep shit if those 505 Gibbs and 450 Rigbys come out OK in the CZ. Wonder if CZ is doing them or if they are being made in America. With a 416 Rigby you will have to get a 450 Rigby. And you need a 350 Rigby as well.

I should have my new licence through and am getting ready for another Wby order.

By the time we are finsihed we will be able to open a CZ/Wby display. That would provide a considerable contrast

Mike

The 375 is a big calibre bmp, make no mistake.

If every hunting gun on earth were placed side by side in order of power the 375's would be right at the very furthest extremity of the line with the other dangerous game guns.

The average hunter says 375 and thinks "BIG". Thre average non hunter sees the case and thinks "BIG"

You can always rebarrel or rechambre to something much larger later on if you feel you need to re adjust the relationship.

Mike, what weatherby are you thinking of next?

Karl.

Definitely start with the 375. Even if you move on later to bigger stuff, it will remain an essential part of your battery. It's really all anyone needs.

Karl,

It depends on when I phone them this week.

I want a 3rd 378 that is the level above what I have got. If it is done with the good wood and higher degree of workmanship then it will be about $12000AUS out here. But I what I would really like is one of the Crown Customs in 378 but not the off the shelf (actually the standard Crown Cutom only comes in up to 340) and through the Build a Custom Gun system they would be about $22000AUS.

I might this time around elect to get a pair of 30/378s to match the 378s. They were $5250AUS each but woud you believe the 30/378s are about $6000AUS because a recoil lug needs to go on the barrel when it goes into wood.

So in a nutshell, I know the various Wbys I want to build up but it is a matter of timing, that is money, as to the order in which they come.

By the way, did i read rightly that you might do a single shot 700 and 1000 grainers at 2700 f/s? If so, you would need toget a jig made up to thin out the front section of the bullets jcket and hollow point them. Emus would be a very special target

Mike

What a question! Brings back all of the concerns I had when trying to figure out what to take the first and (so far) the only time I've been.

I was going to take a .338 WinMag and a .375 H&H ... but the week before I had a scope failure on the .338 and did not have a spare that was set up for the .375.

So I took a 9.3x62 CZ American and a .416 Rigby CZ Safari Mag.

The contrast was very sharp. Both rifles shoot well, but the PH was taken aback by the Rigby. Was very negative as his experience was that most of the hunters bringing them didn't shoot them well.

The 9.3x62 has essentially no recoil, and is very handy. The .416 is heavy and has substantive recoil. Unless you are well versed in how well you tolerate recoil be very careful about how big you go. Turns out not to be a problem for me, but has been for almost everyone who has shot my Rigby.

During my trip the 9.3x62 was used most heavily and earned a permanent place in the safe! Took 5 animals easily with no recovered projectiles ... Impala, warthog, blue wildebeast, Kudu and Zebra. The .416 took a nice male gemsbuck and simply staggered him ... he fell over after very slowly moving 20 yards or so.

I suspect the .375 H&H is the best of your choices ... it has the cross sectional area that will help transfer energy to the target lacking in smaller calibers. With the right bullet (270 gr Barnes X) you can get trajectories very similar to the .338 Win Mag. Rifles in this caliber can be handy and are often very accurate. Dies and cases are cheap and good bullets are plentiful.

And, you won't feel a bit silly lugging a heavy Riby cannon around hunting North America.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Rigby and wouldn't trade mine off ... but a good .375 is simply a great rifle with fewer of the down sides of an equivalent Rigby.

And, you won't feel a bit silly lugging a heavy Riby cannon around hunting North America.

What about lugging a 460 around for spotlight shooting Kangaroos or as PC does, a 585 Nyati.

Mike

Mike375,

Must admit that I only feel silly when the terrain gets more vertical.

(Have been known to pop a white tail once in a while with a .470 NE Searcy double. But I could not recommend that as one's only large bore ;>

The .416 and the .404 should be really fine bear calibers, but they are just a bit much for almost everything else ... especially when the hills get steep.

Mike

We are fortunate in Australia with all the flat ground and for most of us walking and shooting are regarded as mutually exclusive activities

Mike

I have a .404J & lov eit, but would recommend a good .375h&h for what you are interested in. I had a .458Lott made & found it too much of a good thing, sold it & went to a .404. Now if I can just get some of those NF 340gr for plainsgame, I'm all set!

The great .375 H&H – Powerful – Versatile - Accurate.

If I had to make the choice, owning one rifle .375 H&H – no second thought.

Roland

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl:
-snip-

The average hunter says 375 and thinks "BIG". Thre average non hunter sees the case and thinks "BIG"

QUOTE]

And the average guy on this forum is about whether a 416 is a medium bore or a big bore

Another vote for the 375. If you are a hardcore large and dangerous game hunter, then you'll go with a 416, and care not about bullet costs etc. If on the other hand your the average hunter, that may go to Africa once or twice, and most shooting will be targets and NA game, the 375 will more then serve you well.

Yeah I am shagged.....my bank account is never going to look any good.............but I will have a hell of a lot of cz's

Mike you will need a Neil Diamond sequence suit to go with your weatherby's

PC,

Will you be doing a 700 with Karl

Mike

Mike, the advice I give myself and anyone else including BMP who started this thread is they might as well start now arranging for themselves the grandest thing they currently covet, since anything less won't stop them wanting it later on anyway.

Not sure if this is wise advice for your weatherbies, due to cost. My idea of grand is represented simply- in numerical fashion with the scale being ftlbs or magazine capacity.

Karl.

When it comes to hunting my first choise for most of the bigger game is the .375HH (my favorite). I Love this old CTG. I call it the "Gentle Giant" kills like a giant on one end and gentle on the other. If your other rifle for smaller game is the 30-06 then you are right at home with 270grain bullets and 180grain in the 06 toss 'em about the same. I don't feel like I could pass up the chance to tell anyone that asks why I shoot the threesix bits.

If you are serious about reloading, you can have your cake and eat it too...get a 375 RUM and load it down to H&H levels for most of your "light" hunting...this includes 225 gr Hornady spitzers at 3000 fps. If you want to put the hammer down and shoot something real big real far away there are a number of powders that will drive a 300 gr spitzer 2850 fps at 60,000 psi...faster if you want to go to the max SAAMI rating of 65,000 psi.

If you want to shoot something big and dangerous in close, opt for the fine Woodleigh 350 grainer at 2700 fps and you have true 416 stopping power.

Having one light and one heavy stock solves most of the recoil problem and you can swith them over in a couple of minutes to meet your needs.

quote:

---

350 grainer at 2700 fps and you have true 416 stopping power.

---

Just a personal preference, but I don't ever like to try and justify velocity as a substitute for lead.

Velocity is good, but when the chips are down, I'd rather punch a bigger hole than rely on energy transferrance and hydrostatic shock.

A .375 is still a good sized hole though and plenty for anything in the Americas, but it doesn't have .416 stopping power - they may overlap in range, but you're relying on velocity to do the job, and relying on velocity can get you in trouble.

quote:

---

If you want to shoot something big and dangerous in close, opt for the fine Woodleigh 350 grainer at 2700 fps and you have true 416 stopping power.

---

Dang, that muzzle energy (~5500 ft-lbf) is sneaking up on Lott muzzle energy (~5800 ft-lbf). Might as well get a Lott!

My 350 gr. out of the old .375 H&H is going 2400 fps, which is probably good enough.

Right at the moment it is off the cards due to Bob doing me the .404 and the 50-110 on the 1886

PC,

What stage is the 404 at.

Mike