I have almost decided to build a 404 and was wondering , what action I should build off ofand what barrel I should use.

Thanks

built mine on a Win 70 classic. I used a Pac-Nor barrel

So a long magnum action will work without a lot of ajustments to the action.
thanks

mdl 70 in ultra mag will do fine from a length stand point, some work will have to be done to get it to feed. I had Dennis olson do the feeding part on mine. I bought a NIB 300 ultramag to start with.

Don't forget that CZ-USA is doing the 404s. I think they are $1750US.

These rifles are supposed to be a cut above the ordinary CZ in wood, finish etc.

Mike

I forgot all about the CZ's

I don't know if this logic would actually apply in practice but I wonder if the first 404s, 450 Rigby and 505 Gibbs guns will be real good to generate good publicity etc.

It will be interesting if they sell well to see if Norma brings out brass in 450 Rigby and 505 Gibbs.

Mike

I built mine on a .300RUM w/ a PacNor bbl. I love it.
www.hunt101.com/img/129404.jpg

fredj338,

I may have asked this before, but I've slep sense then, but who did your qtr rib

without question use a Lothar Walter 404/.423barrel.

The problem I have found with the 404, and I am its best fan, is the magazine box on any rifle other than the origingal Mauser is wrong, and even though most work most of the time, none of them are correct, and will fail at some point...

I have been talking to a lot of folks to figure out the problems and I think I have got it done, now if I can only get someone to make a 404 box, as opposed to converting a 416 box....

I have a Wisner box for a .416 and it has .065 walls and will convert to a 404, but I am not sure if I can then cut the inside wall releif, ala Mauser in the side walls, we will see...That is critical to proper feeding as Mauser discovered as it relieves friction of the rising cartridges by about 90%...Paul Mauser knew a thing or two..

I have built several and none were just right, D'Arcy Echols varified that was a fact of todays 404s and the reason why he has never been a 404 fan... His expertise has gotten my on track. The one I am building now will be right.

What is need is for everyone to jump on Sunny Hill and have him copy the original Mauser and not to leave any of the cuts out..All magazines should have the releif cuts inside the walls....

GC, it's a reshaped Dakota 1/4 rib that my riflesmith Laszlo installed. He does really niec metal & wood work. If I beat the stock up enough, I'll get him to build me a nice one.

Ray, Jim Wisner made a run of bottom metal for pre-64 modle 70 long magnum action with a magazine box that has the proper demensions for the Jeffery case. I have had two. If there is enough intrest he would do it again I would bet.

I tried to order a Wisner Mauser bottom metal for the .404 Jeffery over a year ago. About nine months after that I got a letter saying that he was not doing them, had changed his job. Sounded like he had moved on to other employment.

About any gunsmith can make the Model 70 RUM box work for a three down .404 Jeffery. No special blessing by Dennis Olson is required. The M70 Rum Box is windowed and has the flat magazine spring and dippity-doo-dah alloy follower. It will do until one can find a geometrically perfect box for the .404 Jeffery.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
GC, it's a reshaped Dakota 1/4 rib that my riflesmith Laszlo installed. He does really niec metal & wood work.

Fred,

Please do not mention his name on this forum. I have already snuck in on this great deal and I don't want anyone else to as well!!!

Tim

Since you blokes are committing the sin of having a 404 on a Model 70 why not go all the way and just get Rem 700 and an in line feed magazine for 300 Ultra from HS Precision for Rem 700. They even make them with up to a 10 shot capacity.

Heaps of fire power, no fucking about and no feeding problems

Mike

Mike 375 go back to your boozing and leave real discussions to real men!

At first I planned to use a Sunny-Hill 375 box, but it's a monster and would have required a lot of machining on the model 70. Dennis Olson said he would have had a much harder time getting it to feed and not necessary, so he used the factory.

Guess the CZ's will be done on the 375 box.

My .404 is being built on a 1909 m98...........complete new bottom metal has been made for it..........with amuser project you can rack up some $$ fairly quick especially if you get some nice extra's

I think I have made up my mind , you have been very helpful and I will need your advice with this plan for sure!
I think I will wait for my 1999 montana Professional hunter action, I know it will be some time but that will give me more time to gether every thing else I will need.
I am thinking out of the box and will need help finding out who can do this, I would like a half Octaon Half round Barrel. Any ideas
I will have time to find the right stock blank and other components.
Any other suggestions
Thanks

Does anyone have any idea when the professional hunter Montana action????

Tim, few know of Laszlo's presence, he's a good secret to have around, but I try & look after him & send him the occasional good client.
Mike375, a M70 is just another Mauser, a Rem. is a whole nother animal.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
a M70 is just another Mauser, a Rem. is a whole nother animal.

I don't think Mauser enthusiasts would agree that the M70 is just another Mauser.

Mike

Mike,
I am a Mauser enthusiast. The M-70 makes a fine .404 Jeffery with the factory RUM box (windowed sides, flat spring, and dippity-doo-dah alloy follower). Practically speaking it is a functional Mauser-like action in all regards except the self-locking extractor feature is not there. I can live with that.

My .404 is also being built on a 1909 Argentine DWM mauser action. London Guns cast bottom metal. Project is starting to gain speed. Can't wait to begin shooting it!

Right now, I'm sitting on 40 rounds of Paker Hale factory 404 Rimless ammo in 400 grain solids. I also have 100 pieces of Norma brass, 2 boxes Woodliegh 400grain softs, 2 boxes Woodliegh 400grain solids, and 1 box of Swift 400grain A-Frame. As you can tell, I'm getting anxious.

Who has some good loads using Varget and a 400 grain bullet? My goal is to find an accurate load from 2,200 fps to 2,300 fps. If I can get an accurate 2,250 fps load, that would be ideal for me. My rifle has a Lothar Walther 25" barrel.

Thanks.

Tim

Ron,

Mauser is totally different breeching system.

Model 70 and Rem 700 are kisssing cousins in the bolt handle area. I saw on a recent posting that the Canadian gunsmith Bill Leeper said the later Model 70 bolt handles are no longer splined on but pressed onto a knurled surface and he has seen two come loose. But at least you don't need to go and look for the bolt handle in the grass.

But I just think the 404 Jeffery should be on a Mauser and a Mauser with thumb cut.

Mike

Tim, you have got to try the 380grNF, it's amazingly accurate. The 400gr Woodleigh is also a good shooter & terminal pref. is predictable.
I started loading leaning towards Ray A. & IMR4831. I also tried RL19 & that is where I settled, for now, on loads using 380gr-400gr bullets. 84gr/RL19 will get you right @ 2200fps from a 23"bbl. RIP can give you data using Varget. I think med. burners like RL15, Varget & VV150 would be perfect for 340-350gr bullets. More testing is needed, I only ahve about 250rds through mine so far.
You can also make servicable plinkers from 300gr 44mag bullets sized to .423. I shoot them @ 2400fps using RL15 or VV150 & get 1 1/2" groups, recoil is very mild.
Mike375, I had that very problem w/ my M70, the bolt handle came loose. I had my smithy silver solder it, now it's never going to be a problem.

Mike,
Sure, you are right. Problems are surmountable. I know all about the breech and bolt handle things but at least we have CRF and a nice safety and trigger when properly set up. The sharp edges of the extractor cut need to be touched up, etc. For me it is a case like horseshoes and handgrenades. Close counts. Surely a Model 70 can be made serviceable?

As for the nostalgia issue for .404 Jeffery in a Mauser, it means squat to me.

Shumba,
Saeed's Varget loads were a guide for me.
I have a McGowen 24" stainless 10" twist barrel that is "nonfouling" and "looser" than the Lothar Walther. I have difficulty getting enough slow powder into my case to get up to 2300 fps with 400 grainers.

A 100% density load with Varget and the 400 grain Woodleigh RNSP is 85 grains.

81 grains gave me 2401 fps at 42 degrees, F IIRC.

Adjust for temperature by 1/2 fps per degree F with the EXTREMELY stable Varget EXTREME.

83 grains gave me 2529 fps with the 380 grain NorthFork SP.

You might get more velocity and higher pressures than I with those loads. The Lothar Walther barrel may be a smidgeon tighter than my McGowen. They are both 0.423" groove barrels, but the land geometry is different. Mine is faster twist, but the Magic McGowen Micro-Land rifling eases pressure. Sub-MOA to 300 yards with 340 grain North Forks at 2700 fps. And yes that was 87.6 grains of Varget with the stubby bullet.

Norma brass.
GM215M Federal primer.

You might start at 73 grains of Varget with any of the 400 grainers and work up to desired velocity in your rifle. You will find no easier powder to work with than Varget Extreme.

Ron,

I am just expressing a personal opinion or personal preference that a 404 brings to the table tradition and inconvenience and once it goes on the M70 the tradition is gone so why not a 416 Remington.

As to the M70 itself, I think it is far better than the Mauser because of the receiver. A Mauser to me always look like an action whereby someone saw a Model 70 and said to themselves...how can I change this action so that its bedding configuration will be terrible....

But I would find a 404 done properly on a thumb cut Mauser to be an appealing thing and especially if its big brother the 500 Jeffery was there.

Mike

Mike,
True, true. Boredom with .416's may lead to a .404 in even an impure M70. Cosmopolitan that I am, I can live with M70's as well as Mauser quirks, and especially so if it is a synthetic and stainless with a QD scope, a peep sight, and a Moon Bead.

Ron,

If I had the money to waste I would get a Weatherby Crown Custom done in 300 H&H and 375 H&H and one of the gold plated ones. A mate of mine reckons H&H would take legal action

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike375:
Ron,

If I had the money to waste I would get a Weatherby Crown Custom done in 300 H&H and 375 H&H and one of the gold plated ones. A mate of mine reckons H&H would take legal action

Mike

Mike McGuire

How are things going with customs in Aussie?

They managed to locate your pair of 378 wby and complete the paper work so we can see some photos of them? Is your pair of 378 with gold plated action?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

JOHAN

I am supposed to be close and no they are not the gold plated ones.

A pair of matching 460s were ordered a couple of weeks ago and should be here in 6 months and I won't have the paper work issue with them and should be able to take immediate delivery.

If you want good Weatherbys and excellent service contact Kevin Nunes at Weatherby, mention my name and he will take good care of you.

Mike

Ray,

Where can I get a look at an original Mauser .404 box? Any chance you have a picture or know where I can find one?

Thanks

JOhn,
I don't know, but you can get the specs...If all goes as I think it will I am going to be able to make some cuts on the wisner bottom metal and come to specs as its .065 thickness in the walls gives me room to work. I know I cn open it to specs as Jim has done this,, I am concerned about the inside releif that you will find in any Mauser magazine..the 404 definately needs that cut inside each wall as that is what releaves friction that alway hangs that last round or the first one......

Thanks, Ray. I'm going to attempt to build a left-handed 404 on a Montana action so if I can get specs for the Mause box it might help. Any suggestion as to where I can find those specs? I have the equipment to make a box if I have to.

My .404 is built on a 1999 Montana action built for the .375 H&H....I also got a #5 contour barrel blank from them.

mike 375, I agree with you completely. I will take delivery this year of a trio of rifles made by Davenport. All on 1935 Chilean actions. One each in 9,3x62, 404 Jeffery, 500 Jeffery. All done up as originally produced by Jeffery. Kreiger barrels, Blackburn bottom metal, English walnut in the true Jeffery style. I can hardly wait. I hope they are done in time for my hunt in Zambia this year.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
I will take delivery this year of a trio of rifles made by Davenport. All on 1935 Chilean actions. One each in 9,3x62, 404 Jeffery, 500 Jeffery. All done up as originally produced by Jeffery. Kreiger barrels, Blackburn bottom metal, English walnut in the true Jeffery style.

You lucky b_____d!!! You better show us photos of you standing over a dead buff with that 500 or 404 in your hands!

I thought you were a Pre-64 man. I'm already getting worried about my next buff/plainsgame hunt. Can't decide whether to take my Pre-64 M70's in .458 "African" and .375H&H or the 9.3x62 and 404 Jeffery that I am having built on twin 1909 Argentine DWM actions.

Tim

lb404

That is a nice set.

It is a pity that brass/bullets etc is not all nice and convenient for the 280 and 333 Jeffery. Then you would need two more rifles

Mike