Does anyone here have any experience with the .505 Gibbs and the rifles that shoot it?

Thanks,
Barn

Yes - What are you looking for? any specific models or load data?

I have so many questions i don't know where to start, but i'll try. What is recoil comparable to, is it much more than a .458 WM? What kind of game have you taken with it? Is it more powerful than the .500 Jeffery when handloaded? I'm looking at a CZ Magnum Express in .505 Gibbs for $2749.95, does this sound like a fair deal? Thanks very much for anykind of information you can give me on this cartridge.

Barn

I can't imagine that a 505 and a 500 Jeff have much difference in recoil.....BOTH of which are a fair amount more than a 458...GIVEN SAME WEIGHT/SHAPE OF STOCK, etc. Most 505/500 class rifles weigh a bit more than 458 class....somewhere around 11.5-12.5#. My 500 Jeff weighs about 12# loaded and will get your attention, but I don't find it any more objectionable than a 470 double.
The CZ will need some work to make it a true DG rifle...good bedding/cross bolting, smoothing of the action, etc. I have heard...but have no proof...that some of the CZ rifles in the "big calibers" had some feeding issues....and this may have to be worked on as well.
As far as the difference between a 505 and 500 Jeff.....I don't think the game would notice any difference...525 gr vs 535 gr...in the original loading configuration. John Taylor preffered the 500 Jeff.....Kevin Robertson loves his 505. Blindfolded side by side, you wouldn't notice any difference.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

On the receiving end (which end is THAT) the animals will not know the difference in a 505 or 500 more or less anything.

there is a proven threshold of 570gr at 2150 being well within acceptable limits of killing power for the largest game on earth, that being the top loads of a 500 NE

the 505 Gibbs is a HUGE case, and requires a large ammount of powder or powder and filler to make book of 525gr at 2350 (CIP). It can EASILY break 2500 fps with a 600gr bullet, but you are now talking about issues of bolt thrust and recovery time from the shot.

recoil of a 600gr at 2150 is, well frankly, mild in a well fitting gun. If you don't understand the concept of fitting, that's an entirely different disscussion ... look up fitting a rifle on google for a start

a 500 class HUNTING rifle should be 11# or less, fully loaded .. even with scope. You can easily load up or down in recoil to learn how to shoot it. Grip the forearm and pull BACK, grip the pistolgrip and pull back and down, your trigger finger should be loose, and you should relax when you shoot .. good practice is heavy loads of shotgun shells in a breakopen single shot .. it will teach you to take the hit, and roll with it.

the CZ, i believe, now comes bedded and crossbolted.

you don't want to hot rod BIG caliber cases, as bolt thrust comes up rapidly...
recoil raises dramatically from 2150 to 2300 to 2400.. and yes, you can really feel the difference at these recoil levels.

i prefer my 500 AccRel because it is a SMALLER case and consumes less powder, therefor less recoil, than a gibbs ... in most cases, the load that gets the velocity you want, burning the least powder (at least 85% or use a filler) recoils less than the next load.

CZs are great rifles, and the custom shop ones either work or you send them back and THEN they work.

I own both a 505 Gibbs and a 500 Jeffery in the AHR form. At full tilt boogey, there is very little difference in felt recoil. The CZ's are a bit rough and some do have feeding problems. Nevertheless, the CZ is the cheapest route to such a serious weapon. With 600gr bullets its fun to shoot!-Rob

To BARN:
As for animals I have taked with the 505 Gibbs, in Africa the Cape Buffalo & Nile Crocodile, in the USA White Tail Deer & Beaver.
Thoughts, the 505 Gibbs does have a greater on game effect than a 458 caliber (Winchester or Lott).
As for loads, you can load down the 525 grain Gibbs bullet to 458 Winchester speeds or less, say 1,900 feet per second, and have a soft shooter. Or you can load it up to rock your world. I have been very happy with the old formula of 525 grains at 2,300 or 600 grains at 2,100. Practice loads can be less speedy.
But with bullets of this size, the animal will not look back and say - You could have launched that bullet a 100 fps faster!
I suggest that you follow JEFFEOSSO's advice. My 505 Gibbs is at an even 13 pounds. I had it made heavy for the reason that I was sure it would kill me if it weighed less. And I figured that there is a difference in a Guide's gun and a Client's gun. Now I want a 505 Gibbs in the weight as suggested by JEFFEOSSO.
The net is that a 505 Gibbs is a true stopper. My 458 caliber guns work, but the 505 Gibbs gets it done with more visible effect.
Sincerely,

A 505 loaded to around 2150fps with 525gr bullets ( which is honestly about all the original Kynoch loads developed ) does not have much more recoil than a fully loaded 458 Win - and is a lot more comfortable than any 458 Lott I have ever fired.
On our big bears it is also a more effective stopper.

I have a CZ550 in 505 Gibbs and it is a fine rifle. No problems. The CZ550 in 505 Gibbs all come from the custom shop in St Louis. That is why they cost 2x or 3x the cost of the guns from the Check republic. These guns do not need any rework or fixing - Unless, you rework all you big guns for added insurance.

I have only shot the Norma 600 grain load and it kicks a LOT more then the same gun (CZ550) in 458 Lott(1 pound lighter gun). I have found it is pretty easy to add weight with scope, rings, bases and if that is not enough you can drill a hole in the butt and put (temporary) weight. This weight can be taken back off as easy as it was added on. My plan is too shoot my 505 in a 12+ pound rifle, with a long eye relief (5 inches) scope.

I am just getting setup for reloading, which is a must. The ammo is expensive. Gibbs or Jeffery: You can load 600 grain bullets to 2400 fps according my research. That is a very big step up. I don't plan to go over original power level 600gr 2100 fps, as loaded by Norma. The old load was a lighter bullet. I trust what others say about that load.

As practical hunting consideration, I doubt a gun this powerful is really an advantage over something lighter to carry and faster handling. IMHO and for me. I just love the romance and shooting the big fifty.

The Jeffery (or Schuyler as it was called) was developed for standard length Mauser rifles. It has a highly rebated rim and a short body and short neck. If you have all the room of a Magnum action, such as CZ, I much prefer the 505 Gibbs, a longer cartridge.

The Jeffery got a bad reputation for feeding problems. the CZ550 also has a reputation for feeding problems. Not a marriage made in heaven.

The Gibbs has a more romance and African stories behind it (good stories). It was built much earlier and in larger numbers and continued in use much longer. This is the main reason why I choose the Gibbs. That and it just look good.

I think $2750, is right for the CZ550 in 505 as a new gun. That is what I paid last year. You can save money used, but you have to be careful the early guns had problems. I passed one up under 2,000 for that reason.

I have used the 505 Gibbs, the 500 AHR (an improved Jeffery), and the 500 A2. They are all about on the same with regard to killing power if they are loaded with the same bullets at roughly the same muzzle velocity. The Gibbs and AHR can beat the A2 in all out power, but there is a price to pay for that, and honestly it isn't need. They all kick MUCH harder than a 458 Winnie, and I am referring to a 9 pound ready to go 458 vs 11.5 to 12 pound 500s. The 500s being fitted and the 458 fitting like absolute shit too. I have killed deer to buffalo with the 500s and the 458s and there is a BIG difference between a fast 50 and the relatively slow 458.

I also have a CZ 550 in .505 Gibbs. As previously said all .505s have cross bolts and are bedded. Every one I have seen also have a mercury recoil reducer in the stock. They are the only way most of us can ever hope to have a .505. They are excellent values for the money. Mine is at AHR right now getting an action job but this is a ritual for me on all my big bores...all get one. Comparing a .458 to a Gibbs, the Gibbs loosens you bones! It is a big step up in recoil. With practice though it is very usable and always impressive. My only negative comment is that they (in my opinion) are a bit light, mine weights in at 10 - 10.5 lbs but that will be an easy fix in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by viperidae:
As previously said all .505s have cross bolts and are bedded.

actually, ONLY the ones made since late 2008 are made that way, when they were only about 1500 bucks, as bedding and xbolts and merc tube were cost add ons ... several people here, myself included, explained the experiences of may shooters, and that at least bedding should be stock ... they added the xbolts, as most cz american stocks are NOT xbolted, and the merc tube is an option.

then again, i got to crack on them for advertising the 450 rigby as a classic/legacy round.. when, in fact, it was a recent wildcat.. the 450 rigby of legend is rimmed

Thanks very much everyone for all the information!! I keep reading in this thread over and over again.

Barn

Barn:

I own and have shot a 9.3 RUM Wildcat, 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, 458 Lott and a 500 Jeffery. Other than the 9.3 Rum being too light. I would have to agree that the 500 is in a whole different class altogether. I routinely warm up with 3 fast 458 Lott loads out of my RSM a couple of times before I shoot the 500 Jeffery just to get my blood warmed up a little. After 10 rounds from the Jeffery I'm done and I put it away. In contrast I can effectively shoot 50 rounds of 416 rigby and gets some enjoyment out of it. YES!!! get a .50 but realize you are moving into the Bigger leagues with it.

Brad

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
I can't imagine that a 505 and a 500 Jeff have much difference in recoil.....BOTH of which are a fair amount more than a 458...GIVEN SAME WEIGHT/SHAPE OF STOCK, etc. Most 505/500 class rifles weigh a bit more than 458 class....somewhere around 11.5-12.5#. My 500 Jeff weighs about 12# loaded and will get your attention, but I don't find it any more objectionable than a 470 double.
The CZ will need some work to make it a true DG rifle...good bedding/cross bolting, smoothing of the action, etc. I have heard...but have no proof...that some of the CZ rifles in the "big calibers" had some feeding issues....and this may have to be worked on as well.
As far as the difference between a 505 and 500 Jeff.....I don't think the game would notice any difference...525 gr vs 535 gr...in the original loading configuration. John Taylor preffered the 500 Jeff.....Kevin Robertson loves his 505. Blindfolded side by side, you wouldn't notice any difference.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Well said.

I have both an Original 505 Gibbs and a Custom 500 J, bugger all difference. You really only notice the recoil once you start to get to the max velocities.

Hi Barn,
Thanks to byf42 I got my first taste of the 505 Gibbs on Monday. Byf42 and his friends are on a road trip out here and stopped by to sample my 416 Taylor. He generously offfed his CZ 505 wth A-Square Lions and Monolithics. On the first shot I expected to see stars and birds, etc. but it was a big roll without the sharp jab. I thought "This is cool!" We did chrono the Lions at 1900-2050fps (big spread) and the Mono's at 2150fps. Judging from the differece in recoil from 2000fps to 2150fps, I would not have had much fun shooting many rounds at the advertised 2300fps. It would take some conditioning to get used to and then you're in fat city.[IMG:left] [/IMG][IMG:right] [/IMG]

We shot a 375, 416, 458 and the 505. Who says mondays are bad? I had a great time and made three new friends. I want a 50 now - Jeff, AR or Gibbs.

Hi Barn,
My 505 Gibbs is built on a Granite Mountain Arms action, and it weighs 11 pounds. It took a while to get used to, but now that I am used to it it is fun to shoot. Recoil is a big push rather than a sharp jab, but you do need to make sure that you hold it properly otherwise it will punish you. I load the 600gn Woodleigh to 2270 fps, and the 525gn to 2500fps. Apart from 1 shot at a running pig (unfortunately missed) I have only done range work so far. Here is a photo:-

I have a 2.5x Leupold compact fitted in Smithson QD mounts.

I have a CZ-USA 550 Safari that came from the custom shop in 505 gibbs It's a very strong action rated at like just over 70,000 psi. I shot a Woodleigh 600PP and 600 Solids the O-jives are the same and point of impact are the same. I've shot LOTS of Buff with mine the stopping power is GREAT I have Shot Buff at over 150 yrds and it picks them of there feet. Also it's a True Charge Stopper. In my CZ I had them put a break and a reducer in the stock and It's fun to shot. I reload all my rounds and never had to put a filler in them. Hope this helps
Cheers

I've got a CZ Safari Classic in 500 Jeffery. It's real accurate, like everyone has said it's fun to shoot as long as you keep the velocity down. Mine weighs around 12 lbs unloaded with scope and sling. It has two mercury recoil reducers in the stock but no muzzle brake. I've been shooting 570g TSX's at around 2300 fps. Recoil is not bad offhand, off the bench I use a lead sled period. Haven't killed anything but a deer at 200 yards with it. I'm taking it elk hunting this year, cape buffalo a year from Nov if all goes well.




Regards,

Chuck