I am getting ready to do proof of concept loading in the 458 Win Mag, and will use the Hornady as a baseline (less expensive bullet).

Looking at various manuals I see X-Terminator, TAC, H335, H322, AA 2015, AA 2495, VV N-530 and others flirting with 2,150 fps under standard conditions with a 24" barrel.

Have any of these powders (or others I missed mentioning) gotten any of you shooters over the Jordan and into the holy land of 2,150 fps?

I built a 24" powder drop tube, but also know better than to attempt compressing any ball powders.

I await your replies with bated breath and only a small touch of trepidation. I also thank you all in advance.

L/D

AA 2230 should get you well over 2150 fps. the balisticians I have talkd with at Hornady claim you can safely reach 2250 fps with it .

I started sticking cases in my 24" Ruger @ 2100+- using 2230. Sames bullet & new Hornady cases.

I load my CZ in 458Win Mag with 75gr of h4895 with 500gr Hornadys and it's over 2150fps. I think the CZ has a 25" barrel.

Coincidentally, I am using the exact same load as Ed. Mine has worked well on elephant, buffalo and giraffe. I think my average velocity was 2156 fps from a 25" CZ also.

i worked on some loads with 2230 (Browning Safari Grade 24" pipe). I used the loading data available online from AA. It proved consistent across my Ohler Chrono. I actually pushed those loads a couple of grains incrementally and saw 2220 FPS with no extraction issue @ +90 F.
None the less, I moved back to 2170 FPS with 500's and really liked Swift 450's at 2270FPS (Super Accurate: I believe 74 grains with Win brass and Fed 215's).
Additionally this about a 100% capacity load, so no compaction with Win brass.
Good luck;

EZ

Awesome replies guys.

Those are both powders that I know from way back.

While doing research, I noted that the 25" barrel is very common in that caliber.

I personally prefer a 450-grain uber-geschoss (super bullet) at 2,200-fps over a 500 lead core bullet at 2,150-fps, but it will be very good to offer customers both options.

It is now time to build my own version of Old Ugly, Phil.

I measured many different brands of .458 Win Mag cases during a .416 Taylor project. The Winchester brand came in first, with Norma not far behind.

As ever, I very much appreciate you all for taking the time and consideration to clue me in.

L/D

lawndart.........

I am beginning 3 projects here this winter, and have already started one of them. I will be doing load data and pressure data on 458 Lott, 458 Winchester, and 416 Remington this winter. However, I am only interested in working with proper designed bullets, and that will be Cutting Edge and North Fork bullets only. I will be using many of the powders you mentioned as well.

I have already started working with 458 Lott, and will continue that until I get a large body of work done before starting 458 Winchester and 416 Remington.

Its been over 6 years since running data and pressures with these 3 cartridges, and many of the new bullets we have today, and better powders, its time to update some of that data..........

Michael

if using tac, also add h335

Michael 458,

I will PM you, and send you some North Fork bullets in both calibers if that will help underwrite your study.

I can certainly send samples of cases from several different manufacturers to help you get baseline water capacities.

Unfortunately, I cannot ship you a pound or two of this or that powder ...

L/D

Jeffe,

Thank you for mentioning H-335.

Michael

Thats good news about the 416 Rem later this winter. I love my 416 B&M but I also have a very nice 416 rem mag--good loads for the CEBs will be wonderful

Lawndart.......

I am pretty sure I have enough bullets, both North Fork and CEB to complete the mission.... Thank you however. I also have plenty of brass in all these cartridges as well.. Thanks........

Sean.... Will be same sort of data we have for all the B&Ms..... maybe not quite as extensive as I intend to keep it to North Fork and CEB only.....

I have a good head start already on 458 Lott with some data done this past week, and tests already loaded to start this week, probably tomorrow.......

M

Lawndart: One of my friends uses RL 10X in his .458 Win and says he get velocities over 2100 fps.
Haven't tried it in my Lott but might give it a look soon.

Karl

quote:

It is now time to build my own version of Old Ugly, Phil.

LD, that will be a good name for your new 458....Old Ugly Phil :-)

http://forums.accuratereloadin...811086231#4811086231

From my experience...it is pretty hard to beat AA-2230 for accuracy and performance from a .458 WM!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...811086231#4811086231

From my experience...it is pretty hard to beat AA-2230 for accuracy and performance from a .458 WM!

Lane.... WE gonna find out! While I think AA-2230 is a contender, I think there are going to be several good powders out there that will match it for velocity and pressures. Accuracy with either CEB or North Fork is a given, and regardless of powder is going to be there. Personally I have always contended because of case capacity the 458 Win has always been optimum with 450 gr bullets, when considering velocity/terminals. Now with proper designed bullets from both North Fork and CEB, there is never a reason to even consider a 500 in 458 Winchester at all. This past July I burned through a good size bull elephant with a 450 #13 Solid, shoulder/heart right side, exited left side 100% dead straight, and still may be going for all I know, and that from a 18 inch 458 B&M at 2210 fps.......... Do you need more than that? Same bullet also penetrated from shoulder to ass on a very big bull hippo at 17 yards, another through both shoulders at 15 yards and exited, and so forth, and so on....... Choose the right bullet....

Velocity equals pressures, some of the extraordinary velocities I hear of there is little doubt that pressures are being exceeded substantially..... Our modern bolt guns, and modern brass today can withstand a great deal of pressure..... I have seen M70s handle 80000 PSI proof loads, and reload the brass and go again..... Of course one does not wish to run a steady diet of this........

We have done a lot of work on double rifle cartridges over the last couple of years, and it is beyond time that we do some work on the most popular bolt gun cartridges with the most modern powders and bullets and get some of this up to date and back in the field where it belongs.................

Michael

Agreed 100% Michael.

Mike Brady (original owner of NF) got me to shooting only 450's in my .458 WM years ago. His monolithic solids and bonded softs always performed flawlessly. I have enough NF 450g solids to last a while! But...I did recently switch to 420gr CEB Safari Raptors for softs.

Seventy-two gr of AA-2230 gives me 2250 fps with the solids and NF softs but the 420 CEB's go 2300 over the 72 and are pretty close to the same point of impact.

According to Mike's data...the 72 grain load is approaching max pressure...but should still be below. My data comes from a 25" barrel.

Can't wait to see your data! As AA-2230 has been hard to come by under the reign of King Obama. I have been told that X-terminator and 2230 are the same powder. I have your list of substitutes in case I ever run out...but thanks to my comrades Michael.458 and eezridr...I am in good shape for next excursion.

quote:

Can't wait to see your data! As AA-2230 has been hard to come

Lane......

AA 2230 and everything else is hard to come by.... I noticed I did not have any AA 2230, so went in search of a pound or two, none I could find anywhere, and for that matter, nothing else either...... I have notices out for some AA 2230 and X Terminator as well. I have a tiny bit of X Terminator left, I have been testing it in my 500 B&M with very good results. It has tested well in some of my other cartridges, but not so good as to lay in a few larger kegs. I have been using a lot of TAC, which does very good in 458 B&M and several other B&Ms as well.

TAC is also proving to be a big contender in 458 Lott with the heavier bullets, 400s +.

I will be working through 458 Lott before moving to 458 Win, so maybe some of that powder might show up for testing, regardless, when it does come available I will have a rifle set up and can run some quick data on it without issue.

458 Lott data coming along...... "Lotts" of work, pun intended.... HEH...

M

Thanks Karl,
I do have a pound of 10X handy...

Biebs,
My wife is voting for Ugly Dart; no respect at all.