I'm looking at used Whitworth's in 375 HH,404 Jeff or 416 Rogby. Is there anything about these rifles I should particularly look for in evaluating condition. Thanks, studdog

For starters, don't waste your time looking for a 404Jeff or a 416 Rigby, they weren't offered in those calibers.

I think he said "looking at" which would indicate that he is looking at a couple of rifles that have been rebarreled to those calibers.

If that were the case, and being that the rifles are used, I would want to run a few magazines of live ammo through them to see how well they feed, and I would want to shoot them as well, especially to take a look at the fired cases, as well as to get some indication of how well the replaced barrels shoot. Obviously, if these are mail order guns you can't do all of that stuff, which is why I would insist on the ability to return the gun if it had problems.

quote:

22WRF: I think he said "looking at" which would indicate that he is looking at a couple of rifles that have been rebarreled to those calibers.

His post does not imply the rifles he is "looking at" have been rebarreled. To successfully convert a Mark X to either of those calibers requires far more than just rebarreling, particularly the Rigby. I've seen only two Rigbys done on standard length Mausers, quite a trick. I'd be surprised if the rifles in question have been rebarreled to either of those calibers, but I can be wrong.

Or have you mis-identified the maker and they are CZ Safari Magnums, not Whitworths?

NO, I was too dumb to know they weren't made in 404 J or 416 rigby. I've seen some on the internet and searched for info. Sounds like a reasonable rifle for the $. I am referring to the English version, I believe assembled and finished in England. Any info would be appreciated. studdog

Studdog: I just bid on one and then got blown out in the biud process....but the guy reniged it seems. I can put you in, otuch with the selller.
The Interarms Whitworth is a fine looking safari type rifle in 375 H&H and has a 1.75-5 Redfield scope on it. If still available went for 1000 plus shipping. contact me at gwilson@elp.rr.com for particulars.

quote:

The Interarms Whitworth is a fine looking safari type rifle in 375 H&H and has a 1.75-5 Redfield scope on it. If still available went for 1000 plus shipping.

That seems on the high side to me. Maybe the scope is worth more than I think. There have been many nice Whitworths sold on this site as well as the auction sites in the $550-650 range.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

The Interarms Whitworth is a fine looking safari type rifle in 375 H&H and has a 1.75-5 Redfield scope on it. If still available went for 1000 plus shipping.

That seems on the high side to me. Maybe the scope is worth more than I think. There have been many nice Whitworths sold on this site as well as the auction sites in the $550-650 range.

$550-650 range was in the good ol days before winchester went tits up. You'd be hard pressed to find a push feed winchester for that price now days. After looking for a couple of months I just bought a Whitworth and the going price seems to be $900 or more.

quote:

$550-650 range was in the good ol days before winchester went tits up.

Don't know what to tell you. I bought a 375H&H from a poster here on AR 2 months ago for $650. There is a 458 now on Gunsamerica for $695 and I missed a 375 for $650 a couple weeks ago. I'm picking up a 458 Whitworth local next week for $550.

What a great site! Thanks for the help guys. studdog. Anyone know what calibers that rifle was chambered in?

quote:

Anyone know what calibers that rifle was chambered in

The Whitworth? Normally when people mention the Whitworth (at least on this site) they are talking about the 375H&H and 458Wmag.
The Whitworth Style (stock, sights, usually the front swivel) was also made in 22-250,243,25-06,270,7x57,308,30-06,7Rmag,300Wmag. Then you get into was it put together in England were they left over parts etc.

A normal Whitworth will look like this.


The second is bobc's 375. He happened to get about the best factory stock I've seen.

Thanks Ramrod. That's the rifle I'm looking for. Do you know what they weigh without scope? I guessed 7.5 lbs. in 375. Perhaps 8.5 lbs in 458? How do Whitworths compare to the current CZ's in Fit?finish? studog

From my bathroom scale I get 10+# with a scope and rings. Haven't weighted them side by side but my 375 feels heavier than the 458 I'm picking up next week. More steel in the barrel?

To me the new CZ, Daly, 798 is a distant second to the old Whitworth and old MKX. I hate the cross pin floorplate release. The new Daly doesn't have sights the swivel is on the stock not the barrel. They are an OK rifle but if you want sights etc you will need to add $$$ to the base price.

quote:

studdog: Do you know what they weigh without scope?

Using the bathroom scale and subtracting my weight, my 375 & 458 are both 8 pounds w/o scopes. The 375 must weigh a couple ounces more cause the barrel contours are identical. Great rifles both:

I bought a very nice one locally for $750 in 458WM two months ago. It is one of the Interarms Manchester, England, marked ones. It will shoot under 2" for the first 5-shot group at 100yds and the express sights are very close. It is visiting a local gunshop for "Lott-inizing".
I think the winchester debacle will cause prices to rise to that $1000 mark by years end if not sooner.

Rich
and NO!, mine is not for sale

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Anyone know what calibers that rifle was chambered in

The Whitworth? Normally when people mention the Whitworth (at least on this site) they are talking about the 375H&H and 458Wmag.
The Whitworth Style (stock, sights, usually the front swivel) was also made in 22-250,243,25-06,270,7x57,308,30-06,7Rmag,300Wmag. Then you get into was it put together in England were they left over parts etc.

A normal Whitworth will look like this.

RAMROD340 Your post is idicative of the reason people are confused when discussing Whitworth rifles! All interarms inmport rifles, made on the ZESTAVA MK-X action are not WHITWORTH rifles!

The whitworth rifles you pictured in your post are true Whitworth rifle, made by Whitworth in Mannchester, England, and they were only offered chambered for 375 H&H, and 458 Win Mag. The rifles imported by Interarms chambered for 22-250, 243,25-06,7X57, 308,30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, and 300 Win Mag, are not Whitworth rifles! The rifle chambered in the calibers abive was called the INTERARMS MARK X Sporting rifle. The Interarms Viscount was chambered for the same rounds, but was housed in a different stock. Interarms also had what they called The "INTERARMS MARK X ALASKAN" which was chambered for 375H&H, and 458 Win Mag, but this was an intirely different rifle from the WHITWORTH EXPRESS African Series, which was only chambered for the 375H&H, and 458 Win Mag, and was fitted with three blade "EXPRESS" rear sight, and barrel mounted sling swivle, a hooded front ramp sight, and the barrel was fitted with a third recoil lugg on the bottom of the barrel about 4" in front of the reciever ring. The stock was as you posted with a English cheak piece, and fitted with a red recoil pad, stamped WHITWORTH. All Whitworth rifles will be stamped WHITWORTH on the left side of the Action, amd in a large oval on top of the reciever ring.

The problem is, folks advertize the Interarms Viscount, Sporting rifle, and Mark X Alaskan as Whitworths, which they are not! These rifle are made quite cheaply, with crap wood,with Monticarlo cheak pieces, and whiteline spacers, very rough finish, and Williams, after market alluminum sights,whippy barrels, and put together by ZAVOTI CRVENA ZESTAVA, in BELGRADE, UGOSLAVIA, and have never seen ENGLAND! The problem is both rifles were imported by Interarms, which was simply the importer, not a gun maker!

The only thing the same about most Interarms rifles, and the Whitworth EXPRESS African is the ZESTAVA ACTION, and even that was slicked up on the Whitworth rifles, and left rather rough, in the interarms Sporting, Viscount, Cavalier, and ALASKAN!

Many people buy the cheap Interarms rifles, thinking they have bought a real Whitworth. They are not in the least the same rifle!

Mac,

Thanks for the explanation ! What exactly is a Whitworth seems always to cause confusion especially as odd rifles turn up that don't quite fit all the rules completely..

I don't suppose you could give a brief run down on the various Paker Hale Safari rifles and how they compare to the Whitworth?

Regards,

Pete

Mac,
I think we are saying the same thing. A true Whitworth will have the Whitworth in the oval on the front ring.

Interarms did import a model rifle they called the Whitworth. It is listed in "Bolt Action Rifles" Just like the Viscount, Cavalier, Alaska etc They chambered it in everything. I had one is 7mag. It looked just like this one on gunsamerica. Had the English cheek piece and even had Whitworth on the red recoil pad.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976708967.htm

But no where (at least on mine) did it say Whitworth on the metal.

Many people try and sell the later Interarms(MKX) Whitworth Style as a true Whitworth. While they are an OK rifle they are not the same. I agree my "Whitworth" was smoother out of the box than my MKXs or a Daly.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Mac,
I think we are saying the same thing. A true Whitworth will have the Whitworth in the oval on the front ring.

Interarms did import a model rifle they called the Whitworth. It is listed in "Bolt Action Rifles" Just like the Viscount, Cavalier, Alaska etc They chambered it in everything. I had one is 7mag. It looked just like this one on gunsamerica. Had the English cheek piece and even had Whitworth on the red recoil pad.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976708967.htm

But no where (at least on mine) did it say Whitworth on the metal.

Many people try and sell the later Interarms(MKX) Whitworth Style as a true Whitworth. While they are an OK rifle they are not the same. I agree my "Whitworth" was smoother out of the box than my MKXs or a Daly.

I'm sorry Ramrod340, but Interarms did import the WHITWORTH EXPRESS African series, and it was listed exactly that way. It retailed at that time (1974) for $425 US.

If your 7mm rifle was in a Whitworth stock,someone put it there, because it didn't come from the factory that way! If the action isn't stamped WHITWORTH,in two places, and MANCHESTER, ENG, in one, with English proof marks, it is not a Whitworth. It is a MARK-X actioned barreled action in the whitworth stock. I have a couple more of Whitworth take off stocks, if you like to turn another MARK-X sporter into Whitworth!

Mac, the 1980 Gun Digest lists Whitworth Express Rifles in 7 mm RM, 300 Win Mag, 375 & 458. I've seen enough of the 7mm rifles on sites to believe they are the original real thing, although copies are possible also. Bob

Mac
Like I said I agree if it doesn't say Whitworth on the Metal then it isn't a "Whitworth". As to my 7mag. It didn't say Whitworth on the metal. But it did say it on the recoil pad. The front swivel was on the barrel just like my 375H&H. All of this was from the factory or at least the wholesale distributor I bought it from. It looked just like the one on the gunsamerica link. I just sold a late model MKX stock that had the cross pin floorplate release and the swivel on the forearm. It said Whitworth on the pad. I thought the "Whitworth" went out of production before the cross pin. But I have been wrong plenty of times before.

As to other calibers in a Whitworth style MKX I'm only stating what the author listed in "Bolt action rifles". I'm sure no expert.

Sure I'd love a take off it it had nice grain. But would it need to fit a normal barrel contour.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Mac
Like I said I agree if it doesn't say Whitworth on the Metal then it isn't a "Whitworth". As to my 7mag. It didn't say Whitworth on the metal. But it did say it on the recoil pad. The front swivel was on the barrel just like my 375H&H. All of this was from the factory or at least the wholesale distributor I bought it from. It looked just like the one on the gunsamerica link. I just sold a late model MKX stock that had the cross pin floorplate release and the swivel on the forearm. It said Whitworth on the pad. I thought the "Whitworth" went out of production before the cross pin. But I have been wrong plenty of times before.

As to other calibers in a Whitworth style MKX I'm only stating what the author listed in "Bolt action rifles". I'm sure no expert.

Sure I'd love a take off it it had nice grain. But would it need to fit a normal barrel contour.

Hey Ramrod, At the end of the Whitworth production, because of the war in Kosivo makeing the actions unavailable, al lot of the left over componants from Whitworth were sold out to Interarms, so the last few seriel numbers will show a conglomeration of parts, put together to form some of the damndest crap ever. This is unfortunant, because in years to come, collectors will have a real time trying to sort all this out! This is evident, only five years after they were discontinued, with the crap seen on the market today.

If you intend buying more of these rifles, my suggestion to you is, If it is not chambered for 375H&H, or 458 Win Mag, and stamped Whitworth in two places, and Manchester, England in one place, with English proofs, get it cheap, or don't buy it! The Whitworth rifles are good buys at $900-$1000 US if in good shape. The others are worth the Action only, and should sell in the $300-$500 range!

I just checked, and I only have one stock left, and it was from a 375H&H! The barrel channel is far larger than any smaller chambering. The channel was the same in all Whitworth stocks, as the 375 H&H, and 458 WinMag barrels were the same outside dia., The blanks found on smaller chamberings were not inletted when sold by Whitworth!

Thanks guys for the education. I'm still on the hunt for a real "whitworth" 375 or 458. This info has helped alot. studdog

You can get mine for only $900 + shipping!

458 WM

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=398342&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You can get mine for only $900 + shipping!

458 WM

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=398342&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

Hey Studdog, make old Will throw in a copy of his book (HUNTING AFRICA'S DANGEROUS GAME)for that $900! It is a hell of a good read!, and the Whitworth is a good rifle!

Gentlemen,
About 15 years ago, I visited Interarms warehouse in Manchester, England, where I had the pleasure to shoot Interarms Whitworth Express rifles in both 375 and 458 at their underground shooting range. There was a room with a big table in the middle (possible for business meetings) surrounded by gun stands at the walls. There were some 7mm Rem Mag rifles that were quite different than the ordinary production Zastava rifles. At least they had different stocks. There was also a very high quality custom rifle that I was told that it was back for stock repair. It was made for a very Big Name gentleman in England but the stock warped and was touching the barrel. It is my feeling that Interarms made special non production rifles under the Whitworth name in other calibers also. Maybe a member of this forum from England might help.
Lefteris

Mac,

I currently own Whitworth rifles chambered in 7 mag and .300 Win Mag. They are marked Whitworth and are identical to the Whitworth rifles in .375 and .458 in every respect including finish, wood, stock profile sights, barrel band sling swivels, etc. A friend owns a Whitworth in .30-06 and I have seen them in .270. I have owned upwards of a dozen Whitworths over the years and have carried one in .375 on six safaris. Excellent rifles. To answer the original question, you can find the month and year of manufacture stamped on the right side of the rear action ring. It will be right at the wood line. The earlier the manufacture date (1970's - early 1980's), the better.

quote:

Originally posted by David W:
Mac,

I currently own Whitworth rifles chambered in 7 mag and .300 Win Mag. They are marked Whitworth and are identical to the Whitworth rifles in .375 and .458 in every respect including finish, wood, stock profile sights, barrel band sling swivels, etc. A friend owns a Whitworth in .30-06 and I have seen them in .270. I have owned upwards of a dozen Whitworths over the years and have carried one in .375 on six safaris. Excellent rifles. To answer the original question, you can find the month and year of manufacture stamped on the right side of the rear action ring. It will be right at the wood line. The earlier the manufacture date (1970's - early 1980's), the better.

David, nothing is beyond the relm of posibility!

I know about the date of manufacture,but that is not when the rifle was made, but when the action was made at Zestava! Which, by the way, is a copy of the FN Mauser, and are actually made on the machinery baught from FN! The numbers are just below, or between, the taped, and plugged holes for a reciever sight, in the right side of the action, just back of the ejection port! This data gives the month and year! My earliest one is a 375 H&H, and was made 11/84, Nov, 1984, and the latest I have today is another 375 H&H, made 01/86, Jan 1986.

One question I would like you to answer is, are these "WHITWORTH" small chambering rifles also stamped as imported by "Interarms of Alexandria, Verginia" It should be just aft of the Whitworth stamping on the left side of the Reciever ring, along action rail, along with the circled STAR, and the circled CZ insignia ( which stands for CRVENA ZASTAVA)a company of Ugoslavia. ! The caliber designation should be engraved in script, on the left side of the barrel's breach end just in front of the reciever ring. On the right side of the barrel at the front of the reciever, and on the reciever ring as well, there should be a English proof mark ( a crown over a "V")If these proof marks are missing, it wasn't assembled in England, but may have been assembled from spare parts elsewhere. The proof marks are only put on a completed rifles after test proofing. My references of Interarms imports do not list the Whitworth chambered for anything but 375 H&H, and 458 Win Mag. It is posible, however these were imported by someone else, or later than my reference shows. I relly would like something in writing that states these rifles were, in fact, made by Whitworth, in the calibers you list, or put together from spare parts, by someone else!

The reason I'm asking these questions is, because I think these may have been made By Whitworth for the European market, and may not have been imported by Interarms, or if they were, they may have been the last of the stock by Whitworth, sold when the actions became unavailable. If so they would show late seriel numbers, and late dates on the actions. Stranger things ahve happened!

I've seen a number of variations myself. My 458 is dated 1175 which is earlier than I thought they were made. The serial number prefix is B, which could indicate second year production. Has some early characteristics including the castle stamped on the barrel ahead of the ring (British proof house?) and soldered on sight bases with caterpillar front sight blade:

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:

The 1975 date could have been a Whitworth because the first Whitworth rifles came into the USA in 1974. However, what you have here, IMO, from looking at the pictures is, a Interarms Alaskan that has had after market sights added. The "CASTLE" is not a proof mark,looks more like an after market barrel. Unless the rifle has been re-barreled, this rifle is very unusual. If it is a Whitworth barrel it should have the Britt proof mark on the barrel, and the reciever ring. This is a small CROWN over a "V". The checkering pattern looks to be a Mark X sporter, or Alaskan, and the front, and rear sights are not Whitworth. The rear sight island , on a Whitworth Express is 3, 1/4" long, and are held on by two screws, while the front ramp is 3, 1/2" long, and is also held on by two screws. Addtionally, the frint blade is a 3/8ths dove tailed bead installed from the side. If they were removed, I think you would find screw holes under them. The front sight ramp looks like one of the old Mauser sporter take offs.
Is this rifle stamped anyplace as a WHITWORTH? The fit, and finish, doesn't say WHITWORTH to me!

I've seen it in person; definitely a Whitworth and definitley original.

Mac, the rifle pictured is 100% original. My other 375 is identical, so was the first Whitworth I purchased in 1978.

More recent versions have screwed-on sight bases, sometime in the mid 1980's was when they made that change. And even more recent examples have the side button floorplate release.

I did not say the "castle" was a proof mark, I stated it might possibly be the British proof house. The British proofs are on the barrel and receiver.

Top of the barrel reads "Whitworth Rifle Company Manchester England", recoil pad says "Whitworth", side of action says Mark X, Interarms, Alexandria, VA, Manchester, England.

The rifle El Caballero recently purchased off AuctionArms is an identical early version.

You are correct about the checkering pattern on the top pic not being original. This is a new pattern I had checkered on the original stock on my 375 after I bedded, reshaped and refinished it:

Mac, if you have a fax #, i'll send you a copy of the specs and picture from the 1980 Gun Digest. I believe it lists Interarms as the importer. I have some earlier and later GD's and I'll look to see if there is a change over the years in calibers the Whitworth is listed for. Bob

David W is also correct. There were express rifle versions available later on in calibers like 7mmRem, 300WM, 30-06, etc. with British style stocks, folding express sights, barrel band sling studs, etc.

Here's one in 270 for sale on GunsAmerica:
Whitworth270

Will. Sorry I've been off the net for a couple days traveling. If your really interested in selling the Whitwoth 458 Please send me a PM or e-mail with more info, specs and pics of rifle. Thanks, studog

I believe that Will sold his on the classifieds here in less than an hour.

Mac,

Interesting questions that caused me to examine my rifles more closely.

The .300 Win Mag: Left side of the action rail is marked Interarms. The front action ring left side is marked Mark X with the British proof mark. The barrel is marked "Cal .300 Mag" with another Brit proof mark. On top, the barrel is marked with the castle ensignia and also "Whitworth Rifle Company, Manchester, England". The date on the right side of the rear action ring is 0477. The front ring has three proof marks, which are repeated on the barrel where it meets the action.

7 Mag: All markings identical to the .300, except the Brit proof mark is on the right side front action ring. Caliber is "7mm Rem Mag". The date mark is 0378.

David, are your sight bases screwed on or sweated on like those pictured above?

Forrest,

They're sweated on.