I,m in the early stages of having a 470 Mbogo built on a ZKK602 action and the barrel will be fitted with a quarter rib (two folding leaves???).The action has a pop up peep sight.My question is,are there any traps new players fall into having a set up like this, that I should be aware of,to make sure all sights function correctly? Thanks.

quote:

in the early stages of having a 470 Mbogo built on a ZKK602 action and the barrel will be fitted with a quarter rib (two folding leaves???).The action has a pop up peep sight.My question

One leaf should be plenty - unless you like the look of a second, but the ranges implied of a 3rd (although traditional looking) are unrealistic with that big of a bore.

If it were mine, in that caliber, it would have one standing leaf @ 1" high at 50.

I like the look of a twin leaf setup and certainly one leaf would be regulated for 50yds. but what would you recommend for the other leaf and peep sight distances? I'm wondering if I'd even get to use the peep let alone the second leaf,I can see where new_guy is coming from.

quote:

ike the look of a twin leaf setup and certainly one leaf would be regulated for 50yds. but what would you recommend for the other leaf and peep sight distances? I'm wondering if I'd even get to use the peep let alone the second leaf,I can see where new_guy is coming from.

Roughly speaking (without consulting a ballistics chart) 1" high at 50-yards = your bullet crossing your LOS at about 25-yards, 1" high at 50 and then crossing again at 100-yards.

For me, 100-yards is about as good as i can do with open sights. You can sight the first one to dead on at 50, which would probably leave that sight a few inches low at 100. I think you would find yourself wondering which sight to have up for a particular distance.

With the former route, I know roughly what 100-yards looks like and like the idea of one sighting picture covering all distances in between +/- 1" - you may feel differently and are entitled to set it up for how you want.

The peep will be more accurate, and I would consider setting it up for 150.

I think the best open sights are the simplest, and the most visible. One rugged, standing, non-folding shallow 'V' rear sight of milled-steel construction on a base that is screwed and soldered to the receiver is the way to go for me, with a 3/32" white, gold, or fiberoptic bead up front. I like EAW's best. Some experienced users prefer sourdough or partridge type front sights with an appropriate rear. 'Rugged and simple' is the key.

Additional folding leaves and quarter ribs might be all cutesey, but such appendages are just about worthless, add needless weight, and increase (in the case of folding leaves) vulnerability to breakage.

The best open sights I've ever seen on a bolt-gun were on Zimbabwe PH John Sharp's Model 70 .458. Those simple, rugged sights were custom-built for Sharp by some genius in RSA who crafted them extra-thick and heavy of solid, milled-steel. They looked to be just about bomb-proof, and when you brought that rifle up, the sights were instantly aligned and visible, and there was no groping around to find the front bead, no jostling of the head -- those sights were THERE.........

AD

If you think about the look, one standing looks pretty much like one standing/onefolded. I am in the same boat as teh other guys, irons for me are a 100yd proposition. sighted +1" @ 50 I am pretty much on @ 100. They are backups to my VXIII 1.5x5 so worst casr scenario, I have to get closer.

All that is fine, but if you intend to use the pop up peep and I certainly would, then you must cut the one standing leaf off as it will interfer with your peeps sight picture and the speed of the peep....

I do this and I also sight in the two fold down sights at 50 and 100..sight the peep in at 1" high at 100...Along with my QD scopes that gives me foolproof rifle with lots of back up.

If you don't use the peep then one standing sighted in at 1" high at 50 and 100 (usually the same) is all you need....

Right On Ray.
A fixed standing V negates the usefulness of the peep.

The ultimate is a big gold sourdough post/patridge or, if you must, an H&H Tiger Sight/Moon Bead pop-up front (NECG) on a banded, hooded ramp for the front, used with your ZKK 602 pop-up peep, BUT, a 2.5X Leupold will survive the .470 Mbogo, as it does on mine.

Forget the quarter rib and fixed rear sight altogether if you want to get the pop-up peep most functional.

A quarter rib with folding leaves only is an idea, but not quite Kosher.

My 470 Mbogo beater has a fixed single standing rear (Dakota), and NECG Masterpiece front sight as above, with sourdough post/patridge front... with a 2.5X Leupold in QD mounts as the primary sight.

I have a flat-topped Dakota rear sight with a square notch filed in for the square front post ... I am peculiar in preferring this to the shallow V and bead, but I do like both O.K.

Please no comments about the poor quality of my photography or the stockwork, which I did myself. Anybody know where I can get a synthetic for the BBK-02???

The quarter ribs interfer with the bells on some scopes. You may be forced to higher mounts or a scope that's smaller than what you want.

I am not sure why you want a quarter rib if the rifle has a peep sight unless it's for looks. The thing is, as pointed out before, is that the open sights will get in the way of using the peep.

Another way to look at it is that a little extra weight is not going to hurt that cannon and a rib looks cool. If it's not in the way of a the scope you want to use and it's perfect cheek weld then get it. After all a custom can look the way you want it to.

I like a quarter rib on a rifle, but ala English version such as you might see on an old Holland and Holland, it is very small and only 4 or 5 inches long and butts up to the receive ring on a H&H barrel that is available btw from Lother Walter......Most American gun makers install a quarter rib reminescent of the deck on a Navy Aircraft Carrier, weighs close to 2 lbs an up an is capable of holding two aircraft at all times....

The best Ghost peep I ever had was a dovetail cut in the rear square bridge and a peep inserted, break proof and always zeroed in...Use in coordination with a NECG gold faced partridge .007 high and filed to zero for elevation..Horizontals by a punch and hammer...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
...Use in coordination with a NECG gold faced partridge .007 high and filed to zero for elevation..Horizontals by a punch and hammer...

Ray,
Patridge, not partridge, for the sourdough.

I know this is what you mean. I would just like to see you spell it correctly, just one time after all these years.

Besides, I have never seen any kind of partridge, quail, nor pigeon that was only .007" tall!!!

Thanks for the advice fellas.All good information.This rifle will be open sights only because an acquaintance of mine just can't keep scopes on his CZ 450 Ackley.He has destroyed Zeiss and Khales scopes after only <20 rounds and even bent the claws on his bases.I don't know why as people here don't seem to have that problem with even bigger calibres.
My gunsmith recommends filing then stippling the dove tails,just for appearance sake.
Ray's idea of a quarter rib is spot on and I realise that there can be no standing leaf used.
I've never used a sourdough front sight,wouldn't it cover too much of the target at 100yds.+.This rifle will certainly be fitted with a NECG banded front sight,I love 'em.

Having had chance to shoot two of Dave's 470s and mike's 470-from-a-602 here's a couple points

USE THE PEEP
screw the quarterrib.. put that money into better wood or a great scope

here's why...

Chris was able to NAIL, standing, 3 quick shots with the peep from 180+ yards into a (once) running eland...

Remember, the 470 aint a 2050 or 2150 fps round, we are talking 308 with 168gr velocities here, and that's not even begining to push them.. 500 gr at 2500, NP...

So, if you have the peep on-target (you will) and the NECG ADJUSTABLE banded front sight, you are in high cotton ..

because, and RAy himself will tell you this, it's not all that bright, in a stopping rifle, to have a folding rear sight, as murphy is my god, that blade will be DOWN just as much as teh chips are

FWIW
My 470 (probably after the double is built) will wear a brockman rear and a fiber optic front... think giant SMLE

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by mix3006:
Thanks for the advice fellas.All good information.This rifle will be open sights only because an acquaintance of mine just can't keep scopes on his CZ 450 Ackley.He has destroyed Zeiss and Khales scopes after only <20 rounds and even bent the claws on his bases.I don't know why as people here don't seem to have that problem with even bigger calibres.
My gunsmith recommends filing then stippling the dove tails,just for appearance sake.
Ray's idea of a quarter rib is spot on and I realise that there can be no standing leaf used.
I've never used a sourdough front sight,wouldn't it cover too much of the target at 100yds.+.This rifle will certainly be fitted with a NECG banded front sight,I love 'em.

mix3006,
Your friend is using too-heavy 30mm tubed Euro scopes maybe? That 2.5X Leupold will handle about anything and not trash the mounts.

The square patridge/sourdough does not cover the target except below the aiming point. You sight it in to hit at the top edge of the blade, and it can be very precise.

With experience, for long range, you know the holdover by how much of the blade sticks above the flat of the rear sight on either side of the square notch. Just like Elmer Keith shooting his sixguns at ridiculous range. "I don't need no stinking folding leaves."

A shallow V and bead does have it's charms, however, such as a fast combat or coarse-bead hold where the rifle is sighted to hit at the center of the bead, and then the bead covers the target as it is slapped into alignment quickly, and coarsely ... or use a target or fine-bead hold, where the rifle is sighted to shoot to the top edge of the bead, just like the sourdough, and a more deliberate and careful aim can be made.

I can love them both and use rifles interchangeably with either sight setup: bead or patridge.

The Murphy's-law folding leaves on a quarter rib can be supplemented with a dove-tailed fixed standing leaf that can be removed by unscrewing a hex-socket screw as on the Dakota island rear sight with one fixed leaf. I can remove this on my 470 Mbogo and use an NECG peep, but I would not do that in the field unless I had to, and had the hex wrench handy.

For me, the big brass/gold patridge (which can also be painted white and stand out brilliantly) causes the biggest grins. I also like the ease of bringing that bright gold to the center of the peep and shooting fast. Alternatively, the open rear sight makes it shoot like Elmer's long range target sixgun, or a combat 45 ACP.

PS: A little splash of Gun Scrubber or some other solvents will melt a fiber optic front bead. It will look like the Wicked Witch of the West getting doused with a bucket of water by Dorothy in the land of Oz. Not pretty.

PPS: When I got 500 grainers up to 2685 fps I started noticing the recoil. One more grain of powder and I can have 2700 fps with 500 grainers in the .470 Mbogo. 2500 fps is much more comfortable. That little 2.5X Leupold that weighs about 8 ounces can take it.

500 gr. at 2500 fps is comfortable? Sicko!

My father Pondoro recommended shallow V rear and round bead front. Have used the 3/32" white front bead with good success.

The comment about blocking the target: The point you are aiming at is at the top the bead, not behind it. The one failing of my father for not explaining that for which I shall never be able to forgive him.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

What hillbilly carved a cape buffalo on that forend and then inlaid an Indian head nickel into the wood beside it?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

What hillbilly carved a cape buffalo on that forend and then inlaid an Indian head nickel into the forearm beside?

500lies,
You lying sack of sh!t.
Do you wish to start the Jerry Springer Show again?

Let's arm wrestle!

Actually the cape buffalo head silhouette is black epoxy inlay, and the "nickel" on the forearm is the Hammer of Thor made from titanium powder in clear epoxy, and it has a wooden handle made of brown epoxy inlay.

These epoxy inlays cover mixtakes made in the lightning bolt checkering pattern along the forearm. By the time I got to the lightning bolt on the other side, I had learned how to checker and made no mistakes.

It is covered inside and out with clear epoxy.

This stock cracked at the tang when it was on a .460 Wby. I repaired it with a hidden 1/8" diameter all-thread mini-crossbolt, then placed a hidden 1/2" thick steel axial grip rod of all-thread about 6" long into the grip toward the butt (entered from inside the trigger well). Then wrapped the grip with stainless steel wire and covered the wire with the gray epoxy, and modeled a slight palm swell and good gripping texture. Hey, it feels good in my hands.

Second crossbolt in the forend behind the barrel lug. Third and fourth crossbolts fore and aft of the magazine box, with rosewood plugs at these three.

Fifth crossbolt is hidden directly under the primary action recoil lug in the glass bedding.

Then finally there are two machined steel pillars for the action bedding.

The scope bases are Virgin Valley stainless steel Weaver type, custom, and 8x40'ed and JB Weld epoxied onto the square bridges of the BBK-02. It's only a Bauska after all.

The sights are soldered and screwed.

This puppy weighs 10.5 pounds as you see it ...

And that reminds me of the 14 pound 470 Capstick with a muzzle break that 500lies used to wound cow elk with ... Now that was funny!

So Mr. 500 lies, back to you. Over.

Can someone recommend a perm. attached rear peep setup for a 98? Could use the NECG on a dovetail but don't want to mount glass. Thanks.

RIP_
BTW- I know what you mean about the Bauska barrel--mines a 458 and I have never seen a rougher tube in my life (and I've bought plenty of "bargain" barrels).

quote:

Originally posted by snowcat:
Can someone recommend a perm. attached rear peep setup for a 98? Could use the NECG on a dovetail but don't want to mount glass. Thanks.

RIP_
BTW- I know what you mean about the Bauska barrel--mines a 458 and I have never seen a rougher tube in my life (and I've bought plenty of "bargain" barrels).

snowcat,
Hold yer hosses! The barrel is a Pac-Nor stainless. The action was from Bauska, Kalispell, MT, an original BBK-02, before they deteriorated into BBK-01's carried as UltraMag elsewhere.

I would want a custom made steel slab peep for permanent use. Like JJ Hack has on his .458 Lott.

The stainless/synthetic .404 Jeffery African Sheep Rifle with the Grateful Dead decal and map of Africa on the buttstock goes very well with the .470 Mbogo.
They are the light and the heavy for my "Hillbilly Battery."

I do have a few fine guns, but none are as much fun as these.

Come back and play some more 500lies, ya big sissy.

Screw that sissy nostalgia and refinement crap. I want something rugged and reliable in every way.

Anyone care to comment on 470 Mbogo barrels - muzzle diameter & length and what has worked for them? I was just about to post asking for these Q's when I saw this thread. Thinking muzzle diameter is probably somewhere in the .8" range?

Jeff P

Jeff,
For reference, the Buffalo Hammer has a Pac-Nor #6 Sporter contour.

This is 0.750" at the 26" point of the 28" Pac-Nor blank before finishing.

My was trimmed a little on each end and is 25" long and 0.757" at the muzzle.

I think Dave Estergaard, father of the .470 Mbogo, recommended something like this, hence my choice.

Shorten my barrel and you get 0.790" at 22" barrel length.

Ron,
Thanks for your input, I've tried emailing Dave but no replies from the two email addresses I have for him. Also couldn't find such info on the 470Mbogo.com site.

Would love to hear from other Mbogo owners too :-)

Jeff P

Yes,
More barrel diameters from other 470 Mbogo's please.

The gray epoxy wrap on the grip of the Buffalo Hammer:

This represents the iron gloves of Thor by which he wields his magic hammer, Mjolnir, with great power, to split the skulls of giants and cleave the mountains asunder even.

So it is written in the Icelandic Sagas.


Good night 500lies. That was your bedtime story.

I sent the barrel blank down to my gunsmith with a note saying 22" and profile suitable for calibre.He knocked the 22" on the head when he saw the dummy rounds and advised 24" at least.
.750-.780 at the muzzle sounds good at 24".
Dave sometimes takes a while on e-mails but well worth the wait.Don't phone him though,a champion bloke,excellent conversation,big phone bill!!!

Let's see if this get's ol' Ray's attention He-He-He JP

Correction of spelling in the bedtime story above for 500lies: ASSunder.

RIP-
Bauska out of Kalispell also made barrels until recently--I'd never seen one personally until I got this one, yuck. It's even marked ".416" if you can believe that...I was unaware that they also imported actions.

I havn't seen JJ Hack's Lott peep, do you have a brand name or a pic? Thanks.

snowcat,
JJ Hack had his peep custom made by John Ricks, IIRC. A right angle piece of steel block screwed to the rear receiver and the aperature drilled in the free standing side of the piece, after establishing the proper placement and measurements with a less durable receiver sight, or it could be made to line up with a flip up leaf rear sight. I will look for a picture with the search function when I get time.

Bauska's barrels must have been the reason for their demise???

BBK-02 was a "Bauska-Brill-Korean" action that they imported, and it was better finished than the current rough as a corn cob BBK-01 UltraMag actions.

Bauska is still in busines, as of yesterday...

the BBK1 is bauska's action.. les designed it and then had it built in korea, then sold the action plans to someone else

jeffe

RIP,

Hey, if that kind of ornamentation on the stock lights your fire, that's great.

"Your friend is using too-heavy 30mm tubed Euro scopes maybe?"
Thanks RIP you might just have sold his problem,I'll pass it on.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Bauska is still in busines, as of yesterday...

the BBK1 is bauska's action.. les designed it and then had it built in korea, then sold the action plans to someone else

jeffe

I was hoping that would spur sumbuddy into telling me that Bauska was still in business.

Maybe I can find out from sumbuddy who know just why the BBK-02 was offered before the BBK-01 became available? BBK-02 is just a BBK-01 with some factory polishing??? My BBK-02 is marked "Bauska, Kalispell MT" though it was made in Korea, I have been told.

Allen,

quote:

The best open sights I've ever seen on a bolt-gun were on Zimbabwe PH John Sharp's Model 70 .458. Those simple, rugged sights were custom-built for Sharp by some genius in RSA who crafted them extra-thick and heavy of solid, milled-steel. They looked to be just about bomb-proof, and when you brought that rifle up, the sights were instantly aligned and visible, and there was no groping around to find the front bead, no jostling of the head -- those sights were THERE.........

What style sights did he use? Express/shallow V, aperture? I like that concept - heavyduty, rugged and highly visible.

RIP,
I will work on my spelling if you will quit showing us ungly guns...

Pfiefer,
Now thats a nice gun, a Holland no less, what caliber...I rebuilt one in a .375 but Mickey1 lured it out of my hands with a Army Navy 450-400 and a few thousand in cash...Wish I had it back or had yours...

I wish some of these gunsmith would look carefull at Pfiefers Holland and see what a sho nuff quarter rib is supposed to look like, as opposed to one looking like the deck on an aircraft carrier....

Ray,
Sometimes ugly ones can be fun too. Like closing time at the pub ...

snowcat,
here's that link to JJHACK's John Ricks bank vault peep:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rifles/id3.html

Right on Ray about the quarter rib & the rear sight is NO MORE than 3 1/2 to 4 " from the front on the reciever ring! One thing that drives me insane is to see a rear sight stuck half way down da barrel!