With the recent discussion and disappointment to many of you on the MRC PH action topic I was curious about some things.

1. What was special about that action versus what else is out there, aside from the cost? Did they go with a bigger bolt head diameter?

2. 350 orders at 525 is 183,750 bucks. There isn't somebody, or company, out there that can take and enlarge the dimensions of a double square bridge mauser and make the necessary mods in design and have this produced for that much startup?

3. I know that there are a few companies out there right now making high quality mauser actions, but at real high price points. I wonder that none of them would be interested in selling 350 actions at this price with some consessions.

for instance, GMA sells an action that is listed as being hand polished and hand lapped. If they were to cut out the lapping and finishing, what would their investment be and would they be able to make a profit doing it this way?

Just curious.

Red

I am wondering the same thing. I think that the difficulties in getting 400 orders demonstrates that there may not be a huge market for the large action. Seems like the market would be there but this may prove otherwise.

This may be one reason that the high quality mauser actions available today are so expensive...when you aren't producing them in large quanities the initial investment can offset any revenue.

quote:

Originally posted by JMJ888:
I think that the difficulties in getting 400 orders demonstrates that there may not be a huge market for the large action.

A direct hit IMO.

The market just isn't that big!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by JMJ888:
I think that the difficulties in getting 400 orders demonstrates that there may not be a huge market for the large action.

A direct hit IMO.

The market just isn't that big!!!!

Vapo, we were just talking about this the other day.

You have to figure only a percentage of shooters are into big bores. Only a percentage of those are wanting a new rifle. Only a percentage of those are going to have one built rather than a factory job. Only about 350 of those are willing to try a new "untested" action.

quote:

You have to figure only a percentage of shooters are into big bores. Only a percentage of those are wanting a new rifle. Only a percentage of those are going to have one built rather than a factory job. Only about 350 of those are willing to try a new "untested" action.

And when one considers that a business is sustained on ANNUAL sales one has to wonder just how many of these will be repeat customers?

IMO the MRC price was a break even thing just to get the tooling paid off and at the price they offered they still couldn't get 400 committments.

Mayb we know now why the competitors are $3000 for an action!

"Build it and they will come!" I won't pony up to buying a "probable" action. If they wanted a list for next weeks actions OK. However the majority of consumers want reality, can't blame them!
An article in RifleShooter, indicated the Bigbore market is HOT!! Only a fool will sit by and not "make hay while the sunshines". Should they let this go by unattended, they are at fault.
I think enough interest was generated with probable buyers coming forth. With their storied successes others would suredly follow. Being a timid marketer doesn't belong in the world of todays gun enthusist.
Ruger went against the grain long ago and became a success, a big hint there MRC!!

Hey, I do not know the exact specs, but Ruger just made a bigger action for the Rigby, there was an article in Rifle Mag about it. Read about it today on my lunch break.

Two Points:

1. The Brownell's catalog lists the CZ 550 action for $618 retail.

2. I think that new RSM is not designed with just 416 Rigby sized cartridges in mind.

Rich

The new Ruger is great but still doesn't get
a bigger in betwwen size a bunch of us want..
Halfway between Ruger and McBros' 50 action.
I'm gonna work on scaling up a big
falling block for now. Later will make
thickwall Savage action my 12ga FH is on,
and put Savage stuff(bolt, bolt carrier
trigger, sear) in it and put my
700HE barrel on it. Ed.

Granite Mountain and wff Hein already produce big actions.

"Mayb we know now why the competitors are $3000 for an action"

Last time I checked you can get the Hein action in any size for $1,950 including bottom metal.

Why aren't people looking for a large action, beating a path to theseSATTERLEE ACTIONS?

Tinman could have a bunch of orders?

they do, it's called a CZ 550 magnum. add a 80$ trigger, and it works great.

Legacy Sports couldn't SELL the gibbs sized actions from europe, for $1400

jeffe

Actually I've got an econo-big bore action drawn up, but have not made it. Tell me if this interests you.

1. big bore action that is based on my Satterlee African Mag, thats the one on my website with the m-70 style trigger system.
2. The econo-big bore not to be sculpture in steel such as a double bridge mauser or a 70.
3. It will be cylindrical like a remingtion, but with a .750 diameter bolt with mauser features on that bolt.
4. Action will be controlled feed.
5. Action will be very simple both front and rear receiver rings will be the same diameter.
6. drilled and tapped 8x40.
7. Action will feature a m-70 trigger system.
8. Reciever and bolt mfg from 4140 preheat as well as bolts. round barstock, tigged handles.
9. Lower rail unit, like a BRNO 550 or 602
10. Action will basically be a c-ring Mauser,but round. with an M-70 trigger system.
11. What do we, as the buying public think something like this should cost the consumer.

and buy the way Rusty is that new okuma lathe running all the time?

TIMAN

would $1500.00 be to much?

Make it a .850 bolt, please

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Why aren't people looking for a large action, beating a path to theseSATTERLEE ACTIONS?

Because of the prices, perhaps?
Action: $4000.00
Barreled Action: $5000.00
complete rifle:$9000.00

George

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Make it a .850 bolt, please

jeffe

Agreed.

Please use a Mauser bolt release and ejector. Plus Obdendorf bolt handle. I think the BRNO/CZ rails are too narrow for the really big cartridges - not enough meat. Will there be enough there for the really fat wildcats? Thank you.

Stu,
leave the bolt handle to the user.. that's a $50 choice later, if someone wants one.

Dan,
the cz rails aren't too narrow..... kind of a funny statement, that.. if they were too skinny, (without recourse for cutting the SIDES rather than top) they wouldn't feed smaller carts... too wide rails means the rounds pop out.. you cut back the SIDES to make one work.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

Dan,
the cz rails aren't too narrow..... kind of a funny statement, that.. if they were too skinny, (without recourse for cutting the SIDES rather than top) they wouldn't feed smaller carts... too wide rails means the rounds pop out.. you cut back the SIDES to make one work.

jeffe

That is not my point at all. I am not talking about the OPENING between the rails, I am talking about the width of the RAILS THEMSELVES.

OKay...
the 505 barely works, and besides the trex and 600OK, is about the largest case.. that is, barely works in a staggered feed... works GREAT in a single stack

but, the answer is the same, either way... if there's enough to catch a 505, there's enough for anything short of the 600OK.... which would require about a 1.95" wide action to staggerfeed, as as such, would only be a single stack.

Yes, the rails are wide and thick enough.... but leave that to the guys that will do the work, k?


jeffe

Actually, the CZ550 design is not adequate for a proper staggered feed .585 Nyati, never mind larger wildcats.

nyati and trex has the same max diameter .. rim is different, of couse.. made from (or can be) 577 nitro brass... yes, you are right, but the "larger" wildcats are already mentioned

Dont forget about the lefty's out here. I just pulled my 2 orders from MRC. If they will fit a gibbs, and a lefty for 1,500. I'll put my name on one Timan.

505ED

Ideal-- .900 bolt, 1.6 inch wide action.
1.25 in barrel thread, thread 1.2 in long,
loading port 4.5 in, mag length 4.25 in.
Locking lugs Enfield/Ruger style, .6 inches
wide,possible with .900 bolt diameter and
.2oo in longer than in Enfield.That will give over 50,000 lbs shear rating on the lugs.
My Savage is 42,000. That size of a
.900 in bolt will handle 700HE, 700 NE,
12ga FH, 600 NE, Rob's 700.Ed

quote:

Dont forget about the lefty's out here. I just pulled my 2 orders from MRC. If they will fit a gibbs, and a lefty for 1,500. I'll put my name on one Timan.

I will second that...500 Jeff or 470 Mbogo with the bolt on the left side would be the best thing since sliced bread.

I may sound like a broken record but just order the Hein. They are made in left hand also. Unless there is something wrong with this action that it will not handle the large calibers you guys are seeking?

Timan, I would think that at $1250 you would position the action, pricewise, in the vast middleground between the $500 cz and the $2000 Hein and well below your other actions and the GMA.

Stu,
It is running most all the time! Ya get in a bind let us know.

George is right it is an economical problem. The problem is on both sides of the manufacturing bubble.

Costs of manufacturing are passed on to the consumer, who although he likes the product a great deal, can't afford enough to warrant a larger product line run.

I'd love to make a run of actions, but the work load and profitability of what I am doing now is such, that it isn't profitable enough!

I think that those who are interested in firearms will always buy the best they can afford weather it's a 710 Rem. or a H&H double rifle. It takes work and effort to make a nice action. Gun parts come from a machine shop. Machine shops cost a lot of money. Parts bid too low kill machine shops,no profit no shop, simple as that. Most Americans are basically broke and pay a lot of interest to the banks.
Take a look at what you paid in interest for the year and there's your answer, there's your custom hand built rifle, right there in the interest paid column.
Tinman

Not me Timan, I have less than your shop turns in a day, $$$-wise, in debt structure...if I can't trade into it or pay cash (houses and Dodge diesel trucks aside) I don't buy it.

That said, I think you have a winner of you can "out the door" that cylindrical action for $1250. Consider the response that MRC got on a PH action. You have credibility here, and could show an actual prototype completed action to the crowd. That, and a credit card post for $400 should net YOU $120,000 dollars in upfront committments from three hundred of the same people who supported MRC. Tell people here you will take card numbers and, in batches of fifty (or however many you batch) actions, charge their card when you actually start the first batch. As your batch nears completion, you make the call and let them know their action ships in two weeks, and that you are charging the other $850 that day, plus shipping and insurance costs. Make sure the first fifty-whatever go to people who can help you here by getting rifles built quickly, like Jeffe, and showing them here. I would guinea pig, and ship a barreled action to a stockmaker within three or four days of receiving the action for a stock.
Bill Soverns posts here with stocks for sale. Get him one quickly so he can make a pattern and start selling them.

Aside from the fame and moderate fortune, you are building a tremendous customer base for your upscale actions.

Think it over, and talk to us.


Rich

quote:

That, and a credit card post for $400 should net YOU $120,000 dollars in upfront committments from three hundred of the same people who supported MRC.

Once you book the sales and take an initial deposit is when you go seek out the loan from a bank. Banks lend against anticipated cash flows and inventory all the time. Fund tooling with initial deposits...borrow money to finish actions and fund overhead for the shop...pay the bank off with the proceeds from final sale of the action, and keep the profit for yourself.

There is a difference in reckless use of leverage (debt) and smart business finance taking calculated risks.

I'll see if I can have a prototype by September of 07.
Timan

Timan,
1. start a poll topic here. See how many, knowing you are serious and capable, will subscribe. My name goes at the head of the list, 'cause I'm here to say "I WANT ONE!!!". Use my guidelines to get a firm number to take to your funding institution. They can have my phone # and permission to call and verify.

2. bump up that prototype to April 15th IN MY HANDS! It will be shown here, as the action, barreled, and complete rifle by June 1st. It can go to some of the AR forum heavies to be shot and admired, and commented on.

3. Take the list of 300+ to the bank and get rolling.

Given the crowd here, it is that simple.

thanks for listening

Rich

Make em left handed to. I'll take one for sure for $1,250

I would be in for a LH action at or below $1500.

If you guys push Stu's numbers over 49 a year then you better plan on paying 11% more for the same action in excise taxes. If you think that his work on these actions is ONLY worth $1250, that would put his shop gross at $61250 for 49 actions. Could you guys keep a shop open with those kind of numbers?
gunmaker

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Why aren't people looking for a large action, beating a path to theseSATTERLEE ACTIONS?

Because of the prices, perhaps?
Action: $4000.00
Barreled Action: $5000.00
complete rifle:$9000.00

George

How much does one of those roughly finished poorly stocked new mausers from overseas cost ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
gunmaker

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

How much does one of those roughly finished poorly stocked new mausers from overseas cost ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
gunmaker

Which ones are you referring to? Zastava? CZ? Others?

Not that I've bought one, but they all have MSRPs of under a grand (except for some custom offerings by CZ, which are built here on imported action AFAIK).

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

How much does one of those roughly finished poorly stocked new mausers from overseas cost ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
gunmaker

Which ones are you referring to? Zastava? CZ? Others?

Not that I've bought one, but they all have MSRPs of under a grand (except for some custom offerings by CZ, which are built here on imported action AFAIK).

George

MAUSER

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

How much does one of those roughly finished poorly stocked new mausers from overseas cost ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
gunmaker

Which ones are you referring to? Zastava? CZ? Others?

Not that I've bought one, but they all have MSRPs of under a grand (except for some custom offerings by CZ, which are built here on imported action AFAIK).

George

MAUSER

which translates to SIG -Sauer, today