I made an impulse buy recently when I found a Whitworth 375 H&H at a local shop. I've been looking for another 375 for awhile, and knew a little about the Whitworths, so I took a chance on this one.

AFTER buying, I searched here and other places to find out what I could about it, and found a lot of info, and a lot of discussion about what's what with Whitworths.

So, what do I have here?















The only proof marks below the woodline:


I read some about this recoil block on some models...not sure what to think about it.


Looks like "0290" Does that mean it was made in 1990?


The only other marking below the wood line:

From what I can gather, I think this is probably a gun put together after Whitworth went out of business, probably assembled somewhere from leftover parts. As such, I'm gathering the 'collector' value is not much. That's fine, as I bought it with intents to build a working gun.

I haven't shot it yet, so don't know if it's even worth spending a bunch of money on, but my plans are:

1. Restock
2. M70 style 3-pos safety
3. Take about an inch off the barrel and add a barrel band front site
4. Add barrel band sling stud

So...assuming it shoots and feeds right, any reason I shouldn't put some money in it to end up with a "lifetime" big bore rifle? Should I keep it as is and try to find a "better" platform to start with?

Any and all thoughts appreciated.

It's probably an Interarms gun assembled here from Whitworth parts. Interarms was the American importer of the Whitworth rifles before they shut down.

Good guns; most shoot very well. It won't be a great collector piece but I would leave it as is were it mine. But if you're in a hurry to change the stock I'd be interested in that one.

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
So, what do I have here?

Frank's Gun? LOL

A great 375. I would have it bedded, if it isn't already. The lug is new to me, as a factory piece.

great guns, decent trigger, and a good round.

good luck

Yeah, you got a winner there. Glass bed that sucker through the full diameter barrel shank, and free float it the rest of the barrel channel. 3 position safety is nice, the stock is fine as is.

I personally think a 375 needs more magnification to get the most out of it. A 1.7x10 Swarovski would be sweet, but at least go with a quality 2.5x10 for 300 yard PG shots.

To me, one of the best things about the Whitworth's is the trim stock which makes it light to carry. I'd spend the money bedding the stock, replacing the recoil pad, and making sure it feeds, ejects, and functions properly before I replaced the stock.

It does look like a good one. I know I had a bunch exactly like that and even sold one to a guy from Texas out here on the coast who was wanting to head for Africa.
The bedding block was added for sure. The front sight being a screw down would indicate an assembly after Whitworth got out of selling them. So does the mag release being a button and not in the bow. It looks like an original pad with the Whitworth emblem which I will buy if your change.
I personally like that scope but went with two piece bases to make reloading faster.
I would certainly shoot it a bunch before changing anything. You may be surprised and how much you like it.
Frank

Definantly a keeper. Standard Mark X/Daly Arms commercial Mauser '98.

With the bridge mount in place it is hard to see if the action was opened up for the .375H&H like the current Mark X/Interarms/Zastava.

If the metal beds in all the right places on the existing wood I'd leave that stock alone. Apart from a new recoil pad as the current one is out of fashion, if it shoots well leave it as is and spend your dough on ammo and hunts.

I always regret I did not buy a new Whitworth 375H&H I saw in a gunshop in Germany when I was their many years ago. They seem to be good solid Mausers finished in the English style.

I don't like the look of that recoil lug dovetailed into the barrel on yours. It looks as if it has been done with a file which has also hopped out of the dovetail and scored the barrel bluing beside it. Would have been much neater silver soldered to the barrel.

How deep into the barrel has the dovetail filing and drilling/tapping for the screws gone?
The work does not look a very professional job.

A great Tracker with his bosses Whitworth 458;

I will get some pictures of mine, bought it back in 1998 at Elk Castle Shooting Sports on the west side of Fort Worth. It is stamped as an Interarms Mark X but I am pretty sure was restocked to look more like a Whitworth it is my first favorite rifle, my second favorite is a Tang Safety Ruger 77 in 35 Whelen.

I have shot a lot of stuff with my 375 and enjoy the hell out of it.

I wouldnt change anything, just take off the scope.

Definitely not cut the barrel or restock.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
It does look like a good one. I know I had a bunch exactly like that and even sold one to a guy from Texas out here on the coast who was wanting to head for Africa.
The bedding block was added for sure. The front sight being a screw down would indicate an assembly after Whitworth got out of selling them. So does the mag release being a button and not in the bow. It looks like an original pad with the Whitworth emblem which I will buy if your change.
I personally like that scope but went with two piece bases to make reloading faster.
I would certainly shoot it a bunch before changing anything. You may be surprised and how much you like it.
Frank

Frank, thanks for the reply, my searches found you providing alot of info on these, so appreciate your input.

When you bought your 2-piece bases, did 'standard' mauser bases work, or did you have to provide exact hole spacing measurments? I'm definately replacing the bases and rings.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

I don't like the look of that recoil lug dovetailed into the barrel on yours. It looks as if it has been done with a file which has also hopped out of the dovetail and scored the barrel bluing beside it. Would have been much neater silver soldered to the barrel.

How deep into the barrel has the dovetail filing and drilling/tapping for the screws gone?
The work does not look a very professional job.

Eagle, I don't like it either, but have found referrence to that being a factory add-on on the late-model Whiworths. I haven't taken the block off to see how far the holes penetrate, but it is a worry to me that it might affect the integrity of the barrel.

A couple of general questions:

1. 3 position safety: will a general "mauser" shroud/safety work on this, or do I need to search out something specific for this action?

I see online generally available "mauser" 3 position shroud/safeties are available from Dakota, Gentry, and NEGC...any preference between these 3 (if they'll all work)?

2. Already asked above in reply to Frank, will any "mauser" bases work?

The first is from a gunsmith added lug

Here is an original lug from the Whitworth Rifle Company. I think you can see that they were soldered and screwed.
RE: the scope bases.
My gunsmith used Leupold bases but turned them around and drilled a new hole in the base to fit so the base did not stick out into the port.

what is the concensus concerning the floorplate release up at the top of the triggerguard?

Thanks. Does that 'smith lug in the first picture cause you any heartache over the barrel integrity, or am I just worrying about nothing?

I am not concerned with mine. I have shot many full-house .458 mag loads and no obvious problems.
From your photo it does seem to be cut in deeper than mine but you would need to have a qualified gunsmith pull it and the screws and check how deeply they go. I doubt there would be a problem but I cannot guess any moreso than you would.
Frank

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
what is the concensus concerning the floorplate release up at the top of the triggerguard?

That was a change made later in Mark X production. Maybe when Charles Daly took it over. All the old adds for the Mark X's and early catalogs show the release in the bow.
Hopefully someone knows for sure.
Frank

Thanks again. Any input on whether the regular Mauser shroud/safety would work?

Also, if I ever did sell it, could I call this a Whitworth Express, or is it a Mark X with Whitworth stamped all over it?

Frank
You seem to be showing us the lugs on two different rifles there as the positioning compared with the back sight is not the same.I would have thought that dovetailing and soldering if done properly would have been sufficient without the need to drill and tap the barrel for screws.
I must say, and in all due respect to those owning the rifles, that the work of attaching the recoil lugs looks very amateurish for a factory modification. Nevertheless I have never heard anything bad about the performance of the Whitworths and the one I inspected really did look the part as an English style DG rifle.

Alaska is crawling with similar rifles. There were small variations over the years ( like added recoil lugs and cross bolt floor plate releases) but they are basically the same rifles.
they are solid, honest - and usually very accurate - rifles that with a bit of polishing and use will do just what they were intended to do. But some additional glass bedding is not a bad idea

Yes I was showing 2 different applications of the lug. One done by a gunsmith after the fact and one from an original import rifle.
I believe TrademarkTexan has one done by a gunsmith and not a factory installation.
Frank.

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:
Thanks again. Any input on whether the regular Mauser shroud/safety would work?

Also, if I ever did sell it, could I call this a Whitworth Express, or is it a Mark X with Whitworth stamped all over it?

Any shroud will work.

Lug: All Whitworth African express rifles chambered for 375H&H and 458 Win Mag have this barrel lug! The pictures below are the original on the top picture, and the gunsmith add on in the bottom picture, or a later factory. The factory block is aluminum and is fitted with two screws not soldered.





The floorplate latch below in a late modle!





Floor plate release button on the side of the trigger guard is a late change in the Whitworth Safari rifles and this rifle was made in Feb 1990. The earlier rifles had the floorplate release inside the trigger guard, and the front sling swivel on the barrel.

The sock below has the proper checkering pattern but the sling stud different and the earlier Whitworth EXPRESS rifles (375H&H and 458Win Mag) all had the front sling eye on the barrel. This stock looks too long in the fore-stock as well and may be one reason the sling stup up front is in the wood, but I fear it was to cut cost. This may be a stock made for the Interarms Mark x Alaskan, and utilized in the later Whitworths. The rifle its self is a true late model Whitworth, not a Interarms Mark X Alaskan.




The action and barrel is a real Whitworth, and Whitworth did not go out of business but Zastava did quit making the Safari Express for Whitworth. The reason Zastava stopped production is because of the war, not because they couldn’t sell all the rifles they could make.

The Zastava Mark X actioned rifles in other chamberings imported by Interarms are not Whitworth rifles. If early ones are found with proper WHITWORTH stamped on top of the receiver ring, and caliber stamped in script on the left side of the barrel and reciever ring, and in what seems to be a limited run of 7mm Rem Mag then you have a rare Whitwirth rifle.

The Zastava action is a direct copy of the FN Mauser, and is made on the machines sold to them by FN. Zastava is a Ugoslovian company and their Mark X actions have been used in the building of many brands of rifle, most imported by interarms. In the Whitworth Safari Express rifles the scope base screw holes are the same as listed for FN Mauser.

These are very good ruifles and I have two Whitworth African Express rifles chambered for 375 H&H, one in a synthetic stock for hunting in Alaska, and the other in a factory stock for Africa. Both rifles are fitted with Warne quick detach rings and bases so scopes can be removed when needed and returned with no change in zero. This also allows one to mount one scope for general hunting, and another that gathers more light, and illiuminated for lion or leopard on bait where light is a premium!

The best, IMO is the mid run of Whitworth rifles with Express sights, and sling studd on the barrel, whle the the early ones using aluminum MARBEL type rear sight, and the later ones with sling studd in the foreend wood. The mid run of African safari express Whitworth rifles chambered in only 375H&H and 458 Win Mag are the only Whitworth badged rifles I will buy!
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Genuine Manchester Whitworths have British proof marks: WHITWORTH

Borrowed from the aforementioned thread by 4seventy, nitroexpress.com:

"First off, regarding which was made where, I am not trying to suggest that one Whitworth Express Rifle is better than the other.
The reason for posting is merely to try and provide a very easy way to determine whether a Whit was put together in Britain or not.

If a Whitworth Express Rifle has the following.......

1...Whitworth banner on top of front receiver
2...Second recoil lug attached to barrel
3...Front and rear sights attached with screws
4...Serial No in the 200,000 up range
5...Rear bridge date stamp RH side in the 80's ie xx8x
6...V with a what looks like a crown above it on RH side of action and barrel

..........there is a good chance that it was NOT assembled in England!

If on the other hand a Whitworth Express Rifle has....

1...Nothing on top of front receiver
2...No second recoil lug
3...Front and rear sights attached by SOLDERING
4...Serial No in the 100,000 range
5...Rear bridge date stamp RH side in the 70's ie xx7x

There is a good chance that it WAS assembled in England!

So how do you tell for sure?
Easy, a Whitworth Express rifle put together in pommieland will have to have been proofed there and will be stamped accordingly.
It is often said that the so called Crown over V stamp shown on some of these rifles is an English proof mark and that this shows the rifle to have been put tgether in Britain.
This is NOT correct.
That Crown over V, if that's what it actually is, does not in any way prove that a rifle has undergone proofing in Britain.
Also that "CROWN" on many Whitworth rifles is so poorly stamped that it often appears more like a 5 pointed star than a crown making it a possible star over V.
Crown or star, it doesn't matter, that type of stamp is NOWHERE near what the true British proof stampings should look like on a rifle put together there.

Here is what the proof stampings should look like, or be very similar to, according to the British Proof Laws at that time.

First, the stamp of the proof house involved will be shown ,and to date all Pommie built Whitworth Express Rifle stampings I've seen were done at Birmingham.

Second, the cartridge chambering will be identified along with a pressure rating in Tons per square inch.

Therefore a Manchester Whitworth Express in, for example .458 Win Mag will show.

CROWN over BNP on both barrel and action
and
.458" 2.50"
19.5 TONS PER Square inch.
Note that the word "square" is not written but instead represented by a four sided "box", and 'inch' is shown as ".
Note 2 The cartridge and pressure stampings on many Whitworth Express rifles are located on the underside of the barrel and require the removal of the stock to be seen.

So there are the basics on identifying a Whitworth that has had some sort of assembly in Britain.

A Whitworth Express Rifle which does not show the complete set of proof stampings as listed above has NOT BEEN PROOFED in England and therefore cannot have been put together there.

Most Whitworth Expresses I have seen offered for sale on the net are NOT Manchester rifles.

I could write many pages on these rifles and their differences, but this will do for a starter anyway."

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Genuine Manchester Whitworths will have British proofs: WHITWORTH

Borrowed from the aforementioned thread by 4seventy, nitroexpress.com:

FLa3006, I remember that exchange on nitro express, and the DUGABOY1 in that thread is me!

There has always been a lot of controversy over the Whitworth rifles, and we know some things now that we didn't then back in 2006, some it fact and some of it guess work. However 4-seventy was right about the proof marks not being there but he was not right about the Whitworth rifle not being better than the Mark X rifles called the Alaskan and other names imported by interarms. The reason I say that is the Whitworth stamped rifles are better is because they were made and finished to Whitworth standards, while the others were pretty rough and had after market wood and sights installed in the USA. The fit and finish of the rifles not having the whitworth name had far better blueing, and the wood was English walnut. sights were express sights and had cross bolt and a second recoil lug along with front sling swivel on the barrel. 4seventy is correct that the rifle was not put together and proofed in England as was first thought. However I believe the rifles were inspected, and stocked by whitworth! The whitworth rifles are far better finished that the other Markx actioned rifles sold on the American market.

I seems there were a few 7mm Rem Mage Whitworth rifle as well. but generally the only Whitworth rifle in the USA are chambered in only two calibers the 375H&H and 458 Win Mag.

....................................................................................................................

What do you have? One great game gun. I've owned mine since '95 and it will be the last rifle I ever part with.

Thanks for the additional input. It seems clear this is not a hot collector's piece, so it will get some mods and hopefully a long life of hunting.