I have been working with Steve Brooks in designing a Cast bullet mould for my 500 Jeffery. I just wanted to see what you all think.


Brad,

This is a 575gr .511â€. Imagine it with a gas check.

The nose .498â€

The driving bands .511+â€

Thanks,

Steve

Looks beefy - what's the minor dia.?

Varmint hunting??

I will guess the nose comes down to .501" diameter infront of the first band, and the minor diameter between the bands is .491".

How am I doing?

This ought to be a great generic mould for 500 Jeffery, 500 NE, 500A2, 510JAB, and 500 Mbogo shooters.

I could use a mould like that.

RIP,

actually Steve will make it exactly what Brad wants. Round within .0005" and all the dimensions that tight as well.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Oops, I see now that the nose diameter is .498", ahead of the first driving band, which might be a bit sloppy by some standards.

Rich, I got your drift.

You really have to slug the throat and have the nose match the throat like Veral Smith of LBT does if you want to go all the way.

The vast majority of 500's are going to be .500/.510 bore and groove, so a generic bullet would be very useful for many different rifles. Especially a gas-checked one that uses Hornady 50-cal GC's precisely fitted as you earlier suggested.

Throat fit could come from seating depth for useful accuracy, I guess, with the seemingly mythical "generic mould."

How am I doing now?

Brad better give Macifej some relief on that minor diameter, or I'll keep guessing.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I will Email Steve with the minor groove question. As you have suggested I am looking for a basic starting mould to get the rifle out to the range. Ultimately I would like to build a classic 600grn round nose and maybe even a 535grn aerodynamic profile? I just want a good practice bullet to start and this looks like a nice middle of the road place to start. I'm still looking for some 500 Jeffery Cast Bullet load data.

Thanks

Brad

Minor Groove:________awaiting reply 5/16/08

RIP,

you are there. My custom moulds are all a result of slugging the barrel with a pure lead slug or roundball, and then slugging the throat. The key to accuracy is having a bullet snug there (throat diameter -.001"). For this rifle I do not think it is worth the hassle, but I have taken a fired case, not resized, and turned a brass rod to the casemouth ID less .002" and made it the inside case length less 1/2 the throat length. You have a little brass rod that slides easily into the fired case, and is just shy of half throat length. You can take a pure lead slug and put it in the case neck and chamber it. Run a tight patch around a cleaning rod with a flat jag on it and using a mallet gently upset the slug in the throat. That formed slug will be throat diameter and the step inside the case neck will have upset to fill the case neck area in the chamber. That slug is the maximum projectile dimensions for that chamber and throat. You are, in essence, creating a near slip fit bullet for that rifle. It mimics closely the old Schuetzen rifles that breech seated the slug into the throat and created a mechanical (read: gas seal tight)fit. No gas leakage.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Brad,
When you get that mould done, there ought to be a lot of other people wanting to buy copies of it.

Rich,
I was very fortunate with the ease of the .395 throat slugging.

A 3-ft.-long 3/8"-diameter (.375") cold rolled steel rod was cut off to 2.7" length as the case-and-"half-neck"-filler, and the remainder of the 3-foot rod was used in the bore and tapped with a small sledge to squash that pure lead slug with one light blow that took the throat and rifling impression. A .375" rod in a .387" bore worked very well.
Brass rod would of course be safer than mild steel.

exactly what RIP did +1!!

you exemplify my slogan.

I would ask Brad to occasionally respond to serious mould enquiries by making some of us here a couple of "samples".

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

If it is what you wanted, then great.. if you are asking my opinion? I like 1.75Oogive semi round nose, NOT flatpoint bullets.. the bullets size of the .458 and higher make have a flat nose cast bullet a moto point.. just making feeding issues that "when resolved" don't do a thing for the gun when shooting jacketed hunting bullets.

but, again, if this is what you wanted, GREAT
jeffe

Brad,
Gitterdun and give us the details on how to order a "Brad Mould" please. No samples to me will be required. Looks good enough for generic 500 use. Thanks.

Jeff was this what you where thinking about?

Thanks Brad

Brad,

closer, but that's about a 1 to 1.25, or a 1 to 1.25 radius length round nose. bullet guys make it alot more complicated that it is.. . i like them a little more sloping..

Shakespeare wrote a little piece about some bullet customers ideas. I think it was called "Much ado About Nothing".

Rick, Jay,
guys, let me know when you have made the 500 jeffe feed properly in an enfield or a mauser. Not when you have commissioned one, but when YOU do it, say for abotu the 3rd time.

changing the bullet nose changes the feeding in the 500 jeffe .. largely due to the rebated rim, huge body and short neck. it porposes, it WILL lock the bolt, and generally makes all the geometery into account

much ado about nothing? yeah, like being about to turn hard and stop harder matures to a 1/8th mile drag racer.

I don't believe either of you have direct experience with feeding a 500 jeffe, do you?
jeffe

Brad:

Jeff may well be correct. Changing the bullet ogive in the .500 Jeffery may have a dramatic effect on feeding. I might suggest that you take a look at the ogive on the Woodleighs. They seem to feed really well in my rifle.

Dave

Testy this morning Jeff!

Didn't know you had a feeding problem.

Huh?

You mean the gunmakers go to the bullet companies and say here's the rifle' make a bullet to fit. I always thought the gunbuilder tuned the rifle action and barrel to fit the ammunition. I had my 550 done, and then ordered the mould. It took my guy less than 30 minutes to fiddle and get rounds to feed from the magazine.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Yeah! Huh?

Here's the bullet I plan on Shooting
Versus

I have to agree with Jeff on this one. I'll send a copy to Steve to see what he can do to get a little closer.

Thanks Brad

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

I had my 550 done, and then ordered the mould. It took my guy less than 30 minutes to fiddle and get rounds to feed from the magazine.

Rich:

Isn't this exactly what I said?

The .500 Jeffery is a short, fat cartridge. It has to exit the feed rails at just the right angle and the ogive of the bullet has to work with the feed ramp. I'll admit I have never tried any bullets with a flat meplant in my gun but I have seen my friend have trouble getting cast bullets with a flat meplant to feed properly in his .505. That lovely, gentle ogive of the Woodleighs seems to work pretty well. Why tinker with success? Not every bullet shape is conducive to good feeding is it?

Dave

Update Steve just replied

Brad,
I received the gas checks from Rich to day. If you send me a sample I can
come pretty close for a nose shape.
Thanks,
Steve

Thanks gang for keeping me from falling the cliff.

Brad

Dave,

not cross, just a different approach.

Brad,

if you can send Steve that sample bullet he asked for he can replicate it with a GC and the two bullets should interchange and feed from the magazine.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Huh?

You mean the gunmakers go to the bullet companies and say here's the rifle' make a bullet to fit.

YES ..
in a new caliber, that is EXACTLY what is done.
On existing calibers, oh, let's choose the .510 bullet...

that's why there's SEVERAL different bullet styles, even from woodliegh
http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/Bullet%20List%203.html


Now, have Jay or Rich DONE THE WORK THEMSELVES to make a 500 jeffery feed?
No, you haven't.

It is THE most critical on feeding and geometeries of all the hunting rounds.

is what it is, not being testy, merely replying to folks that don't KNOW what they don't know about the 500 jeffe...

Huh? My friend at Hornady says they developed the 375R, including the bullets and said "here she be, now design a rifle around it". I called him and asked after lunch to verify. Macifey had probably never seen a 550 Gibbs when he designed the solid and sent me some to test. They fed flawlessly in my Enfield custom rifle from the word "GO!". Ditto with the 505 Gibbs bullets he did, and I expect, with the 458's for my 450 Dakota CZ he is cranking out as we speak. Not cross or anything, but you are making the case to not ever have anything to do with the 500 Jefferys.
That said, I expect the bullet Brad showed would have worked like gangbusters. Steve Brooks has been around more than one lap, and his designs flat WORK!

Don't be crabby my good friend, it's Monday.



Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

King Crab, Blue Crab, Hermit Crab, Sand Crab, Crab Salad, Crab Etouffe, Bioled Crab, Steamed Crab, BBQ'd Crab, Crab Kabob's, Crab Ice Cream, Crab Brownies.......just plain crabby!


Large Rocks glass

Pack with ice

Fill with Killepitsch

Swirl - consume - enjoy

ya'll might see it as crabby, and, heck, it might even be...

HOWEVER, I do not feel it to be "much ado about nothing" ... in fact, i find it to be one of the critical last details on a perfectly feeding rifle.

if you haven't built a 500 jeffe, you wouldn't understand.

take it as crabby or not, fellas, I don't appreciate it when I try to share SPECIFIC experience with a person that asked, and get some BS from two fellas that don't understand the criticallity of the matter.

Making the case that changing the bullet can F up the feeding of a 500 jeffe?

WITHOUT A DOUBT, can, will, does, done, and will in the future.

now, this part IS crabby...

because you don't understand the specifics of the problem doesn't make the solution any less critical.

NEITHER of you make turnbolt gun feed, you don't understand the issues with a 500 jeffe, and I answered the man square...

much ado about nothing is what I would have to say about trying to make this personal about being crabby.

ya'll have fun.
Brad, if you want any useful information about the 500 jeffe, PM me, I don't feel like putting up with this CRAP when I try to prevent people from making bad choices that seem trivial

Sheez Jeff I thought we were all friends...when did you get all sensative on us??

I am certainly not challenging your expertise on the care and feeding of the 500 Jeffe since I've never even had one in my paws. Can't we all just be friends??

In Jeff’s defense I have developed a lot of respect for the mysterious 500 Jeffery. My background dates to 2002 when I first read Safari Rifles by Craig B. This book kindled my interest in Big Bore Safari Rifles. Having not fired more than a 338wm I was very concerned about recoil. Craig really pushes the 375 H&H as the BIGGEST rifle most people can handle which in hindsight is a little troubling for me. I folded and bought a Ruger Safari magnum in 375 H&H rather than 416 Rigby which I really wanted. In great anticipation I fired my first 300grn 375 H&H load and anticipating being knock onto my hind quarters when it went off. At first I thought it was a squib load but the second round did the same. After 20 rounds I conceded what a waste for such a big heavy British looking rifle to be in such a mild caliber. Hence my first mistake (too much thinking…). After a few days I found out that these rifles had been converted to larger bore’s 470 Mbogo and 505 Gibbs. Also the Montana rifle co PH action was still in Major Limbo so unless I wanted a CZ rework it was the Ruger or nothing I could afford (ie Empire Rifle, Dakota…) After reading everything I could find especially on the accurate reloading forums I decided to rebore to 505 Gibbs. I discovered that Cliff LaBounty had done this for Hamilton Bowen who had done the conversions for a while (he has stopped now for many years). I was able to track down Jim Dubell who was now doing the reboring and off the rifle went Aug 2006. Jim called me back and after looking the rifle over and said the extractor / bolt face was not big enough to accommodate the 505 Gibbs safely. He felt a DGR had to first be reliable and that opening it up would leave too little metal. (I have some photos of a 505 Gibbs converted rifle I’ll post later that illustrate this point nicely) He then suggested the 500 Jeffery. I was a little disappointed at first but the thought why not I had wanted a Big British round and the 500 Jeffery fit the bill (second error not going with something simple ie 470 Cappstick, 470 Mbogo, 500A2light). I said no problem full steam ahead. Then I began tracking down some 500 Jeffery ammo or so I thought. I finally stumbled upon Jamison International and found they had made the brass in the past. With some luck and good timing I snatch 100 rounds from Midway before it sold out. How about some reloading dies? That’s when I hit the 500 Jeffery 500 Schuler wall, say what. I fought for weeks trying to understand the difference and what reamer Jim was using and what dies I needed. Finding affordable dies was a major pain and I finally settled on CH4 dies which seem to work ok. I had already decided to replicate the 500 NE loading in order to not over tax the Ruger’s poor stock design and recoil reinforcements. The Woodleigh JSP .510 570grn bullets looked great and at the time reasonably available and affordable. Jim had made it clear that he was going to set the rifle up for one particular load/bullet to work flawlessly. Therefore, when I decided to find a cast bullet that I could afford to practice with the bullet design now becomes very critical. I am extremely impressed with Steve Brooks and believe he can make the best mold possibly however, I need the bullet to work with the way the rifle is set-up. If I had taken Jeff’s advice a few years ago I might be shooting my 470 or 500A2 but alas my rifle is still with Jim while he sorts out the details of getting everything to work. I have great confidence in Jim’s abilities but even he admits that setting this rifle up requires a bit of creative reconstruction. I feel any bullet will work if I single feed them in however; my ultimate goal is to have the CB loads run smooth and reliable just like the Woodleigh bullets. Thanks again for everyone’s helpful comments.

Brad

Brad:

I have a CZ in .500 Jeffery. I have always stuck with the traditional 535 grain bullets. I think that you will be able to shoot the 535 grain or 570 grain Woodliegh in your rifle without any problem . They have the same ogive but of course, the 570 grain bullet is a bit longer. I would suggest that your try both. I think you can take anything on earth with a 535 grain Woodleigh using a soft or a solid depending on your needs. IMHO the 570 grain bullets just needlessly increase the recoil but a lot of guys like the 570 better. If you need help with a load, send me a PM.

Dave

Dave thanks for the offer I'll send you a PM.
Here are the RSM Gibbs photos I spoke of earlier.


Notice the lack metal on the bolt

This particular rifle is still for sale on GB however I think $2900 is a little steep.

Thanks Brad

Jeffeoso: Sent you a PM for some 500 Jeffery info.

Thanks

Brad

I would say $2400 tops, and shipped and insured.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Here's the latest


Brad,

This bullet weighs 590gr in 30-1 alloy. You don’t need as large grease grooves.

Thanks,

Steve

This looks a lot more compatible with the 570grn Woodleigh.


Thansk Brad

Looks good Brad.

How long is the new recipe??

Brad,
are you going to GC them, lube them and offer them for sale.

That is a nearly perfect bullet

Yassuh! That'll do with a gas check on the bottom.

Brad,
I just read where you said the poor stock design and bedding.. Hye, man, opinions vary... but dubell did them in 505 gibbs, which you posted, and Dave did at least one in 470 mbogo, which is non-trivial in terms of recoil

i've loaded 416 and 458 lott up to their max in the ruger, and the (over) weight ahs been their friend, for certain
jeffe

quote:

and Dave did at least one in 470 mbogo, which is non-trivial in terms of recoil

Sorry...can't help myself.

Cheers
Canuck