Reading thru old posts, folks talk about the small diameter muzzles on the British guns.

Anyone measured the muzzle diameter on old British rifles?
What was the muzzle diameter and barrel length?

The L-W #5130 Mauser Type A Barrel originally for the .404J is .625 @ 26".That's only .101 thick barrel wall.

Are the British rifles in .375H&H usually that thin of barrel wall.
Just curious.

Allen

I hope someone responds that have data!

The 416 Taylor's I have made had 0.10" walls at the muzzle which is what make them so light.

I had a fellow measure his 458 Whitworth. Same thickness, which is why they are relatively lightweight rifles.

Bring on the thin barrels!

Will,
I am all ears for this too. I have no Olde English experience or data.

I like .125" barrel muzzle wall thickness as a minimum, like my 6.75# .375 H&H with a .625" muzzle diameter at 24" length.

The SIGARMS Magnum Mauser 98 in 450 Dakota is about .670" muzzle diameter at the 25" barrel muzzle: .106" wall thickness in the grooves for a .458 caliber, same as a .458 WinMag from CZ.

Will& RIP, I'm glad I'm not the only one for interested in this

I was thinking if one was to use a L-Ws #5103 barrel and left the contour the same, you would end up with .125 barrel wall.

That would make it heaver and lose the light (long & slender) barrel characteristics of the British guns I would think.

So if a person was to use the #5130 barrel in .375H&H, should one make it with say .600 muzzle diameter to keep the light barrel and feel?

Just wondering. As I read so much about the British guns have such slender barrels. I am curious to hear just how small they tended to be.I'm sure they varied from maker to maker, But will be interesting to hear some measurements. I really like the looks of the old British guns.

Allen

I am very interested in this topic as well...

I would imagine a great deal of the British dimentions we see today came about specifically to address how they wanted the rifle to balance, handle and carry. It would be very interesting to learn about the range they opperated in both by rifle caliber and by individual maker(s).

Hope someone can shed some light!

Best Regards,
Dave

btt for data?

quote:

...L-W #5130 Mauser Type A Barrel

Since this keeps getting mentioned - Does anyone here have a solution for the proper express sight barrel sleeve? Last time I checked the ID on the NECG offering was some .10" too small and lugged. Don't mean to derail this interesting thread but thought someone might know the answer...
Thanks - Jeff P

Not having any experience of such, maybe guys heat these up to get them on a barrel (?). NECG says their front barrel band can be stretched to fit. How, I don't know without a very tapered mandrel. And then you would have to heat it up to get it off. Smiths can probably does this modification in their sleep.

Or your barrel is just too damn big!

Pfeifer, there was a time where the island rear sight+lug could be ordered larger than what necg had on their webbsite, through them or directly through racknagel .. Its about the same cost, once you add the labor, to have a recoil lug and a sight installed than to BOTHER with the sleeve

.125 is WAY too big for most situations, in that it leads to a very heavy rifle. If you have a lott or so, .1 is more than heavy enough, and .08 is generally too light in a big bore

If you call NECG and ask for Mark. Tell him your using the L-W #5130 barrel and he can set you up with the correct size rear sight band for your barrel.
I don't think it even costs any more than the other sizes.

They have the correct size bands, it's the 22mm I belive.But it's not listed on their web site.

Mark told me to just order the barrel and mesure the boss on the barrel and he could send the correct size.The sight sleave is 2.56" and that is the correct for the standard barrel contour. It's for the 1 standing 2 folding.

You might call Mark @ NECG 603-469-3450 or Woody @ L-W 770-889-9998 to double check the sizes.

Allen

jeffesso, do you mean .125 is to big for wall thickness?

So .101 would be a good wall thickness?

On a light 7x57/.275Rigby a .500 muzzle @ 25"
would be good?
And on a .375 a .600 muzzle @ 26" would not be out of line?

Allen

Er?........Say What? I sold a 1" x 26" cylinder barrel in .458 that was part of a 9 lb breechloader...15 1/2" L/O/P , a Leupold 1-5 see thru rings, and steel sights. $20 question is of course - why was it so light? (that would have been .271" at the snout)

How about this thought:

Old gunsteel was heavier (and weaker) due to the lead content.

They had to make the barrels thin-walled at the muzzle to balance properly, especially with the long lengths and doubles. The low pressures so common then were suitable for such steels.

Krupp Stahl and such wartime developments brought us lighter and stronger steels that can be a little thicker and still make the weight for balance, and they are more than suitable for high pressures, with the brass being the limiting factor usually now, unless it is bolt thrust for the fat cases.

My .625" muzzle (24" No.3 sporter Douglas contour) on the .375 H&H gives a 6.75# rifle with a barrel so light that it requires a 1-pound stock to make it balance.

Any wood stock would be too heavy for such a light barrel for a balanced rifle.

That's a .125" wall thickness at the 24" barrel.
It would not shoot to 3/4 MOA until I bedded it with forend tip pressure. Free-floated it would only do 1.5 MOA.

Even on a lightweight I want more than .100" wall thickness in the grooves at the muzzle.

If not obsessed about reducing weight, I would prefer 0.150".

Silly British.

Okay, I'll bite.

A 0.1" thickness at the muzzle is plenty. That is what the 458 Whitworths are, and I suspect the old Safari Express Mod. 70's were too, but I never measured the 2 that I had, as they were lightweight, about 8.4 lbs, less than the Whitworths.

Of course this doesn't explain anything about lead, Fred, accuracy, apples, bananas or balance, or the other speculation.

quote:

Originally posted by Pfeifer:

quote:

...L-W #5130 Mauser Type A Barrel

Since this keeps getting mentioned - Does anyone here have a solution for the proper express sight barrel sleeve? Last time I checked the ID on the NECG offering was some .10" too small and lugged. Don't mean to derail this interesting thread but thought someone might know the answer...
Thanks - Jeff P

I bought the components for my 5130 barrel undersized and had them machined to fit.

The rear base was bored out a bit, and the barrel banded swivel and front sight were machined with the proper taper to match the outside contour of the barrel.

With precision machinery available, there really is no reason to heat them, hammer them and stretch them. I think they cost me $150/ea to be machined properly and soldered in place.

I have the exact part numbers from Recknagel. If you would like them, send me a PM.