I have a free photobucket account and it works just fine.

When you go to post, there are two format options on photobucket, one for emails and one for the forums. (On photobucket the choices are labeled IMG... and Email...) Perhaps you are encountering the same with the service you're using? And choosing the wrong one?

Here is an example of trying to post the two ways, the first the email format and the second the right way with "IMG..." BTW, see the exit hole from a 500gr Woodleigh rROUND NOSE solid at 2145fps on a side brain shot insurance shot!

Wrong way:
http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/Nilrik/?action=v...nt=062ndbullBuzz.jpg

Right way:


When you post the photos you can see the "code" if you see [IMG] its correct. If you see just http: its the wrong way. Hope this helps.

JPK

[/IMG]

My problem on photobucket was getting it to upload-I have that figured out now--maybe! Now let me see if this works.

Aha! Maybe! If it stays????

Guys I am sorry for using this thread as a test for me trying to learn how to upload, download, post a photo! Please accept! For me I like the image event better--but can't get it to load photos for some reason, the last two you actually see are from photobucket and finally I learned how to upload to photobucket! Maybe I can do it now-but don't hold your breath!
M

This is the same bullet as the 470 gr listed previously, only the 426 version shot from one of my 50 Super Shorts. Info is listed if the photo comes up????
M

Looks like you got the hang of it, I'm seeing pictures!

JPK

Yes you do and those bullets are real niiiice!

O.K., what is this about?



Your 50 B&M Super Short bullets are picture perfect ... but they were not asked to do much except be pretty when they are that light for caliber and traveling so slow.

Barnes eventually got the nose right on their ".509" XLC 570-grainer. It is rugged and withstood 2405 fps MV to impact a bison at about 75 yards, broadside, it did not exit. Another shot after death, at 25 yards expanded more due to higher velocity, and the same initial SD driving the expansion. Higher SD is harder on the bullet (and the animal) for any given velocity:





I think GSC HV's might be more reliable at low velocity, regarding starting expansion, but I do not have a GSC HV of .510/570gr to shoot at the same velocity into the same bison to be fair, so I cannot say how it might have done regarding retaining petals at full throttle loads in the .510/460Wby.

quote:

O.K., what is this about?

Looks like a bit for removing screws in airport restroom stalls..?? It's probably magic though so do tell...

GSC copper hollowpoint (.395/340-grain)
at 1600 fps, 2500 fps, and 2725 fps
in "Water Bucket Train" (WBT), 5-gallon plastic buckets laid end-to-end
all three coasted to the bottom of the third bucket
highest velocity leaving the greatest dent in the plastic bucket bottom
lowest velocity leaving a barely perceptible one.



The "Iron WaterBoard Buffalo" (IWBB) was much harder on this bullet at 2745 fps MV, 25 yard impact:





It only went 29.5 inches.

Just food for though about the possiblities with brass hollowpoints that blow off the nose at any useful velocity:

The S&H-made brass .395/310-grain VeloHEX "Hexploding-point" bullet retained more weight and penetrated deeper than the copper GSC HV in the IWBB.
310-grain VeloHex going 49" for a "rumen 5" stop, MV 2793 fps.
340-grain GSC HV going 29.5" for a "rumen 3" stop, MV 2745 fps.

Both these bullets bumped a WBT score of 3 in water only, at 3 different, similar velocities, from 1600 to 2725 fps.









My thought here is that at high enough velocity, the six brass petals break off uniformly enough for the bullet front to act as an FN after the "six-pointed death star" HEXplosion, which sure makes a mess out of the first rumen of the IWBB, more so than any other bullet I have goosed the buffalo with.

If only the brass hollowpoint could be designed to transform itself into a Round Nose Solid after the explosion ... would that make the energy dump more effective?

Maybe the hollowpoint could be smaller and the bullet more aerodynamic, on a more serious note, and yet transform itself into a more uniform FN?

I will leave well enough alone for now.

I've been in negotiations with a secretive group of European Gnomes to provide me with a Uranium Fired Automatic Bullet Making Machine (UFABMM) which will do just about anything and faster than you can say "bigguyslookout".

Things are looking good!

There may be some shoulder stabilization from the "almost FN" VeloHex after it Hexplodes.

There would also be a wee bit of dart stabilization with that squared off nose and tapered tail after the Hexplosion. CG would be slightly forward.

That nose eats wood and water!

Anyone here play with the 458 Swifts? 550gr Woodleighs?

Please! The suspense ... is killing us ... what is this innovation about.
I have never seen anything like it before.

Drag reduction with maintenance of shoulder stabilization???

RIP
Starting at the top, I am a little behind!

You talking crap about my itty bitty 50 Super Short eh? Yeah mr weatherby---no sorry--RIP! Heh! You must see the platform RIP to understand the little cartridge! Basically it is a 500 S&W capacity cartridge built on a Winchester M70 WSSM action with 16 inch barrel! At 6 lbs and 36 inches it makes a handy dandy fun little gun! I think great for bears and such as that with proper bullets. Not for elephants or hippos or buff! Good solid big bore rifle with more capability than a 45/70 in some cases. True .500 diameter. Have to look at the entire package!

Next RIP! the .510 barnes look pretty good to me.

Mecifej
I like that, a do everything bullet, tool in your pocket to slay dragons and such today, and in the morning do all your "screwing" or "unscrewing" of various items! Excellent Idea!
Let me see what other uses for this bullet I can find?

RIP
In wet print the brass bullets do the same thing. What few I have tried, even at lower velocity. I tested a few HP's in downed buffalo in 416 caliber. These were actually the bullets that are designed for the 416 Barrett. Single loaded in my short 416 B&M at 2350 fps 15 feet they penetrated 30 to 32 inches of buffalo, blew the hollow point off of course.

Cute-turn into a rn--cute!

The nose chews wet print too.

I still prefer the copper versions-less brittle.

SafariKid

I used to keep Swift in business in the early days before Bill Hober took over! Nothing wrong with Bill of course He has done wonders with Swift! I like both Swifts and Woodleighs depending on the job at hand. Swifts a little more penetration, Woodleigh little softer depending on bullet! What job is at hand? If buff 1st shots then either the 550 Woodleigh or 500 Swift, I have used both and they both perform excellent-I lean towards the Swift. Thin skinned dangerous then I would drop to the 500 Woodleigh in 458 lott---in a Win Mag I would go to the 400 Swift.
Michael

Oh RIP--I just noticed-YOu are still curious about the "do everything bullet", the one that can shoot buffalo and take the kitchen sink apart, you really want to know about that? Anyone else want to know about it?
Michael

I would think that these Pedals aren't suppose to come off while going threw an amimal. Those pedels add to the weight of the bullet.

Jro45

Welcome! Yes the petals retain the weight of the bullet, correct. In theory of normal conventional thinking-not much of that here I think--the more weight retained, the deeper the penetration. Certianly true with conventional lead/jacket soft points. Then enter the world of solid copper or brass or other material expanding bullets it seems we enter a different world--petals break off and the penetration gets deeper, as there is less resistance to the bullet as it passes through an animal, via the smaller diameter slug remaining! Thus our issue at hand with these sort of bullets? Is this good--not good--or makes little difference and either way is OK??

6 months ago I said this is not good at all! Today I am not really so sure it matters much-either way I have obtained good results on animal tissue and cannot say with the limited number of animals shot whether one way is better than the other-they are all dead.

Michael

RIP

Are you sure you want to know about the flat meplat with the cuts? Really sure?
M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
RIP

Are you sure you want to know about the flat meplat with the cuts? Really sure?
M

Please!
Yes! Do tell!
I am not the only one scratching my head here.

And yes, there is more than one way to skin the cat.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

O.K., what is this about?

Looks like a bit for removing screws in airport restroom stalls..?? It's probably magic though so do tell...

Larry Craig will take a gross of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

O.K., what is this about?

Looks like a bit for removing screws in airport restroom stalls..?? It's probably magic though so do tell...

Larry Craig will take a gross of them.

Ok Michael - get your bullet guy on here to tell us what the story is with this nose design. We're all curious!!

RIP

OK OK I will tell you guys what this is all about!

Way back when I was working with and testing the flat nose .500 diameter bullets I had asked for two designs of mine, and asked JD to send anything else he might have in mind for me to try!

So we had 4 different design bullets, 1 of which is the normal JDJ looking flat nose at 455 grs, the other is the same exact bullet only with those 3 little cuts in the edge of the meplat! I found it interesting, and I didn't have a clue of what it was about either, so I loaded them up along with the two designs I had, which were a little heavier at 485 and 510 grs.

The difference in weight between the two JDJ designs is only 4 grs--455 without the cuts--451 with the cuts. Everything else equal--except the cuts.

Wet print/magazine mix! Soaked overnight. Velocity nearly equal, 2165-2175 fps for both bullets, impact at 25 yds. Consistently the 455 FN JDJ Solid would penetrate 53-55 inches. I noticed a good bit of damage up front. But when I shot the bullets with the cuts I noticed a tremendous amount more damage up front, with 2.5 inch diameter wound channel through the first 15 + or minus inches! It was very much more damage than any of the other bullets, more damage than a Barnes FN in either 458 lott or the 416s, at much higher velocity. Penetration was short, only averaging 32-34 inches! I also noticed that at the very end of penetration, last 2-3 inches, the bullet had become unstable at that point and started to turn. It does not veer off very much, maybe an inch, maybe two, but without doubt has lost stability at the very end.

What are the cuts for? They move fluids! They move fluid away from the bullet, hoping to cause trauma and damage.

Does it work in real life? Yes, it does as far as I can tell at this point. To what degree I am not sure yet. I tried it out on 3 buffalo last November. Internal damage is about what you would see with a good big bore soft point like a Swift A. I really could not tell it did any more damage than that. Penetration was very good, with most bullets exiting the animal. I did hit one buff where the bullet struck bone on the off side and I recovered that one, but the bone had done damage to the front and practically erased the cuts from the meplat. I shot a wildebeast with one in July too, that bullet passed through. Reactions on the 3 buffalo where no different than anything else I had used on buffalo. Very typical reaction and I compare it equal to whatever I have done with the 458 Lott. Certianly not less, but no more.

This bullet also intrigues me and I have put some more thought into it. You, RIP are really going to like this---I think this bullet must be run at higher velocity to realize it's full potential. Currently I can only run this bullet at 2160-2175 fps in my 18 inch 50s. I have a 22 inch single shot version (Win 1885-must say Winchester on it for me you know) and I get 2240 fps, but I think even more velocity is needed to find it's true nature. I am working on a 500 Ultra-or was, I cracked the stock last night! At any rate this cartridge should be able to take it to well over 2400 fps or more. I think then maybe we will see some real trauma.

It is a very interesting concept, and in testing it I have learned a lot, and hope to continue to learn from it!

All good stuff eh?
Now no more big mystery!
Michael

Michael458..I want to hear more about this one(below)! SOunds neat,I could even make mine Much lighter! Tell me more and a pic of your rifle if possible ..What weights seem to work best in it..275 XTPS HPS all the way to 500+?Velocities? Maybe a short action Titanium with a LoneWolf Carbon fiber Stock(12ounces!) and a Carbon fiber barrel...Blind magazine (to save weight) and a Leupold 7 Ounce 2.5X Scope in Alloy mnts(2 ounces)..Damn,I feel Like DR.Frankestein!"It's Alive"! I am thinking 4 pds scoped

quote:

You talking crap about my itty bitty 50 Super Short eh? Yeah mr weatherby---no sorry--RIP! Heh! You must see the platform RIP to understand the little cartridge! Basically it is a 500 S&W capacity cartridge built on a Winchester M70 WSSM action with 16 inch barrel! At 6 lbs and 36 inches it makes a handy dandy fun little gun! I think great for bears and such as that with proper bullets. Not for elephants or hippos or buff! Good solid big bore rifle with more capability than a 45/70 in some cases. True .500 diameter. Have to look at the entire package!

A copper bullet that blows off its petals is not an expanding bullet, it is a fragmenting bullet!

So by all means try to keep the frontal area attached.

Here is what the effect of velocity has on the Barnes X.



Pictured left to right, .458 caliber; 400 grain at 2,700 fps, 450 grain at 2500 fps, 500 grain at 2350 fps.

For comparison, a 450 grain North Fork Cup Point at 2,600 fps.



There is as much art as science in designing hunting bullets.

Andy

Michael 458

Here is a thought.
Look a the nose of a North Fork Cup Point, make it a little deeper, maybe slightly more rounded to aid in bolt rifle feeding, then incorporate some "cuts" inside the cavity maybe 3, that cause it to expand to about the size of Andys NFCP at @2100fps, but maintaing bullet integrety, ie not loosing any parts, but still giving it a Buzz Cut type action.

Designing it so the bullet nose can flare out but not expand back like regular Softs or X bullets.

Hi Andy!
Bullets are amazing things! Very much an art combined with some science and a little imagination thrown in to boot!

SafariKid

I thought I liked small light handy, and fast rifles, but you are a nut case in that arena! You can get something too light you know? You have to recover from recoil at some point to do your best to follow up! I will try and get some pics of the little 50 to you soon.

450

The world is an open door, and there are many many ideas that really could be combined to make a fine bullet! What you suggest might just be a good ticket!

I am not familiar with the North Fork Cup point. So cannot comment anything about it. But from what I see, and what I imagine the front might look like, some cuts in the top around the edge inside might just do exactly what you say it will?????

I was hoping to hear from RIP--but I am going to retire for the evening. I will check in the morning.

Enjoyed it chaps-have a good evening!
Michael

quote:

SafariKid

I thought I liked small light handy, and fast rifles, but you are a nut case in that arena! You can get something too light you know? You have to recover from recoil at some point to do your best to follow up! I will try and get some pics of the little 50 to you soon.

Flattery will get you....! ...Look forward to the pics and what cased are you using?IF,IF somone would come out with a Lever and Bolt gun in 500 Smith,they wouldnt be able to keep them on the shelves!!

Michael,
O.K., I see, the "nose creaser" is not a drag decreaser, it is a drag increaser.

Those cuts disrupt the cavitation "bubble" generated by the FN, so the sides of the bullet are "wetted" by flesh.

Yet the nose remains strong for punching through tissue, and still gives shoulder stabilization, while interacting more with the "flesh" it is passing through, transmitting energy, instead of elastically parting it as a temporary wound.

Wider permanent wound channel, as you have observed, shallower penetration, less likely to exit.

Might even be more effective than a cuppoint?

A nondeforming brass solid "nose creaser" might be the cat's meow.

An "inside-nose-creaser cuppoint?" Yep the creases made sharp/angular inside would be stress risers to fracture the nose, but if the "creases" were kept smoothly rounded inside, without extending all the way from center to edge of cup ... that might open the cup more without breaking it up.

FN: 100% penetrator
Cuppoint: 80% penetrator
Nose Creaser: 60% penetrator
Premium softpoint: 40% penetrator

All the above go straight and true until the last few inches.

Where do Roundnose solids fit in above?
They don't. Because they still have so much travel left in them after they finish their straight and true portion of travel.


Andy,
Those Barnes of yours work a lot like the GSC HV:
Caliber and weight specific for velocity effects on expansion and fragmentation, whatever the medium!

450,

I think the NF CP will probably expand OK as is at circa 2,100 fps.

A deeper HP and three cuts will probably make it fragment.

I'd try it as is first.

What makes it work over such a relatively large velocity range is the copper alloy Mike chose, and the thickness of the base of its HP which is actually quite deep.



Pictured left to right; 450 grain Barnes X, 450 grain Tripple Shock, 450 grain NF CP.

The CP actually has more frontal area (and weight retention) than the 2 Barnes.

Andy

Andy,
Identical weight and caliber initially for all three, makes this a good comparison, but was the velocity and test medium the same?

Andy I have shot some 450 NF Cup Points in my 450 No2 into Giraffe, but they penetrated all the way through.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Andy I have shot some 450 NF Cup Points in my 450 No2 into Giraffe, but they penetrated all the way through.

Did that kill the Giraffe..??

Yes it did.
But it is funny how things work. It took several shots, of running and gunning, all were well placed. The last 2 were fired up close, he nearly fell on me.

I killed another one a few days later. I wanted to use my 9,3x74R Chapuis using 286gr Woodleigh Solids. I was worried I might not have enough 9,3 solids, I only had about 40 or so...

But the second giraffe was down and dead with 2 9,3 Solids.

The PH said "If we shoot another Giraffe put that 9,3 UP, it is no fun."

I don't think you're supposed to shoot em in the ear..??