Overall, I think it's a great rifle. It's my first HP rifle without a detachable magazine, so this "floorplate" deal is a little strange...

1. Stock is very nice. The catalog didn't show the cheekpiece, so that was a nice surprise. The wood is plain, of course, but still very acceptable.

2. It looks like the sights on this rifle will be of little use. Apparently the stock is designed for scope use, since the only way I can look across the sights is to jam my cheekbone down into the stock. I'm not sure I look forward to that experience with a 375H&H.

3. The magazine follower seems to be a little "unsupportive". If I push down on the rear of the follower, it bounces back up, but if I push down on the front, it tends to stick, feeling like a VERY weak spring is under it. Should I try to extend the magazine spring to give it more tension?

4. Should I be able to strip a round off the magazine slowly? I can chamber a round quickly, but if I try to operate the bolt slowly, the round does not make it fully up under the extractor, and once it clears the magazine, the round is flopping around (push-feed-like) until it is chambered, when the extractor then snaps around it. This may be related to #3, due to the weakness of the front of the follower.

5. It seems that there is a mile of freebore. I have always heard that the best accuracy can be obtained with the ogive within .005-.010 inches of the lands. However, I can chamber a dummy round that is quite a bit longer that what can fit in the magazine. Should I load the 300 gr. Nosler Partions to the cannelure and forget about my expensive Ultra-Micrometer seating die?

(My Hodgdon manual specifies case length, but not cartridge OAL.)

I'm trying to decide if these conditions warrant returning the rifle, or a few at-home adjustments, or a trip to the $$gunsmith$$ for "tuning"...

Thanks in advance,
Rick.

[This message has been edited by rick3foxes (edited 03-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by rick3foxes (edited 03-05-2002).]

1. Yeah, it has that "express rifle" look about it. Nice! Length of pull is a little long for me, and the recoil pad could be softer, but those are treatable.

2. Well, the sights aren't great, but I for one like a good solid cheek weld. The problem with my sights is they're off-kilter. The front sight is off toward the 11 o'clock side, so with the rear sight centered, it shoots about 6" right at 50 yards. If I were to move the rear sight to the left enough to compensate, the "face crunching" would be worse (left handed). The front sight was off to the right when I received it; now I know why. I centered it, but now I think I'll drift it back to the right. I have no plans (as of now) to scope it, so the sights will have to do.

3. Haven't noticed, but I'll check it for sure now. Mine feeds fine.

4. I think you have a problem. The rim should slide up between the extractor and bolt face as the round comes out of the magazine. Mine doesn't exactly slide up; it engages the lower portion of the extractor early, then stays there until the round is about halfway out of the magazine, then pops up into place. I don't know if that's normal, or if it will smooth out or not. I hope someone chimes in here with more on this.

5. Don't know. I don't have any reloading gear for it yet - but at $35/box for cheap "plinking" ammo, I will shortly. Gotta pay to hang with the big boys, I suppose.

How's the trigger? I adjusted mine to 3 1/2 lb and minimal overtravel pretty easily.

:-(
There's a nice custom .375 for sale here for only $1800 or so:

http://www.searcyent.com

Click on rifles for sale.

[This message has been edited by 500grains (edited 03-06-2002).]

There is a site that shows how to do the trigger.

No need to spend money on a "smith".

I checked out my "Classic Stainless" 375 last night.

I have no problems sighting with open sights or scope, but mine is a straight comb stock (no cheek piece).

The follower feels "stronger" at the rear, but did not hang up at the front or the rear.

No matter how slow or fast I worked the bolt, I couldn't make it "push-feed" - the rim always slipped under the extractor, usually popped out of the magazine after about 1 1/2" of forward bolt travel, well after the bullet is inside the front ring of receiver. I tested with dummy Spitzer and Hornady RNFMJ. It definitely fed better when working the bolt briskly.

I wonder if increasing the magazine spring tension in the front would cure the "push-feed" problem by holding the cartridge a little "tighter"?

I had no trouble adjusting the trigger to a clean, 3 1/2 pound break. Took about 15 minutes, but I also noticed that pull was about 1/2 pound "lighter" with the action out of the stock.

Good luck with it, I'm sure that once the bugs are corrected, you will like yours as much as I like mine - a LOT!

Bill

Could you please post the link to that site?

Antonio

quote:

---

Originally posted by Antonio:
Don Martin29

Could you please post the link to that site?

Antonio

---

Here you go:

www.snipercountry.com./Articles/AdjustingWinTrigger.htm

~Holmes

Gun works fine, other than the brass denting as described in the other thread.

I like it.

Pertinax

Antonio

Pertinax

I'm not sure how much resistance there should be at this point, but there doesn't seem to be anything that could provide that much lift on the cartridges at "feeding time".

It may be a moot point now. My dealer just shipped the rifle back to Winchester because the scope can not be adjusted far enough to the right to zero in. We were able to shim the rear base enough (.013")to get the vertical to work.

Either the mounting holes are drilled wrong, or the barrel is installed wrong.

And I'm leaving for Zim in 60 days...

Rick.

JMeier

Send it to a 'smith you trust (a number of good ones frequent this site), or sell it and start over.

By all means shoot it before you do anything.

Don

"The hole in the barrel band sling mount is too small for my swivels."

Response:

"I'd go out and buy a set of uncle mike's
swivels and save the trouble"

I've got a 1 1/4" Murray sling (he said he only uses Uncle Mike's swivels) that does not fit the front barrel band. Suggestions?

Michael

------------------
RAB

Regards Guesty

It turned out to be just a small fix at the factory - they replaced the barrel and the action.

Let me get my calculator out...... according to my figures, that leaves.... the stock!!

I've got 4 rounds of each of 6 different loads at home waiting on its arrival. Then sight-in, then practice.....

And I'm leaving in 45 days.

If it's not right this time, it may not make the trip.

Rick.

[This message has been edited by rick3foxes (edited 04-19-2002).]

The rifle has returned from Winchester, and is at the gun shop.

I took my scope and Talley mounts over last night so he could boresight it to see if the problem is fixed.

He just called to say that the SAME PROBLEM EXISTS with the new rifle. He had to check the serial number twice to convince himself that it wasn't the same gun.

It looks like they are drilling the receiver wrong. The scope can't be adjusted far enough to the left to line up with the bore.

Vertical seems to line up, as long as you use a .013 shim under the rear base (same as the other gun). There is a difference of about 300 in the serial numbers.
I noticed when I looked at the gun last night, that the follower is even stickier than the one on the other rifle. Push it down and it rarely pops back up.

Safari - 40 days and counting....

I wish I had bought the CZ now...

Rick.

My therapist says to relax. What an idiot.

Roger

I had many of the same types of problems described here with the first one (.375). Sent it back to Winchester. Got a different rifle when returned. It was crap also!! I finally traded it in on a Ruger M77 Magnum in .375 H&H. The Ruger works.

I just couldn't leave well enough alone and tried a Model 70 in .458 (the second one) just a few months ago. Same crap. Crooked sights. Secondary recoil lug on the barrel was crooked. Feeding problems. Etc. Good bye number 2! I traded it.

Enough is enough. Unless the quality control greatly improves at Winchester (USRA) I will never buy another one.

Just my rantings.....
-Bob F.

posted 03-28-2002 08:12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To day I received my M70 Winchester Safari Express in Left Hand.
I had the gun on order for over 3 years and after examining the gun I have some mixed emotions.
This being the first LH mag, Mauser action available I had to have one,so I paid the $1550 Can.
Now if you ask me is it worth this kind of money I have to say no not if compared to one of my 602 BRNO�s

The overall appearance of the gun is nice
The barrel is thick some what like my Ruger no: 1
The stock is nicely shaped and a nice finish.

But if we look a bit closer we see the front sight is a screw on skinny ramp that will not allow the insert to be moved sideways without sticking out to the side
The rear sight is a nicely made single blade sort of like the Remington's
The action feels gritty and the bolt diam is small,I don�t think it will accept a bigger case heads.
The floor plate is nicely blued but is also bowed because the magazine box is to high for the stock.
The bluing of the rest of the gun is like flat black paint
The chamber has a long throat.
If we shoulder the gun we can�t see the sights because of the neg. drop in the stock,(if a gun maker sets out to build a rifle that has the looks of the old Safari rifles like the Rigby�s you would think that they would design a stock that let�s you see the sights}, so we have to mount a scope when we do this we find that the rear base hole�s are of center so we can�t use Weaver or Leopold Weaver style bases.
The wood to metal fit is ok but on the RH side of the forearm the wood is warped and touches the barrel.
It has nice fine checkering but all points are flat.
And last all the screws(sights/action/swivels) are ready to fall out.

So I drag out my old 602,the602 is the forerunner of the current 550
I paid $600 Can for it 5 years ago

How does it compare?
First it�s 2 1/2 times cheaper
The overall appearance: it looks like a old Rigby
It�s longer than than the 70
The fore arm is shorter and slender but grows wider at the action from there the stock drops a fair amount to accommodate the open sights it has the classic look no cheek piece and no Monte Carlo
So so wood coarse checkering with some overruns
The barrel 25� long,front sight barrel band ramp with interchangeable inserts
The rear sight is express one standing 2 folding leaves
The action is a big square bridge the mag holds 6 375H&H rounds
The bold screams Mauser and is fat enough to convert to 416 head cases
It has a set trigger and comes with a spare trigger to replace the set one.
The gun like the 70 has 2 recoil lugs and unlike the 70 this one is not welded on canted.
If we shoulder the gun the stock lines up perfect with the sights,just like the old Rigby�s
If we mount a scope the stock has to much drop.
The barrel has a shinier finish than the 70 but the action has a parkerized look to it.
The action is silky smooth.

So in overview:

If I was Right Handed I would never buy a 70 over a 602 or a 550 the money I would save would buy me a nice scope and leave me with some to have it cleaned up a little.

If you are LH however and life is meaningless without a LH mag. Mauser there is no choice.
On this forum a number of times the stocks of the BRNO�S have been discussed and I think BRNO or CZ will change the stock design to suit the scope�s
I can only hope that they will not go to the extreme like Winch and take a example from Ruger�s no:1 this stock will let one use both with comfort.

I did seen a 550 the other day it looked very nice nicer than the70 and still only $850 Can.

WOW

Regards Martin

In retrospect, I think I've done things backwards.

Somewhere along the way, I'd like to have a 458 or 460 something or other, and I'd toyed with the idea of getting it built on a Dakota or other pricey action. Thing is, I will probably shoot a 375 ten times for every time I shoot a 458 (bullet, powder costs, recoil, plausible North American hunting scenarios and all that). Even though there is a factory gun alternative (not the best, mind you) in 375 caliber, I would probably be better off sinking $5000+ into something I'll get more use out of and go the cheap route when some manufacturer realizes or imagines there is a huge left handed market out there for 40 or 45 caliber bolt guns.

Well, some people can't learn from mistakes without making them.

H. C.

[This message has been edited by HenryC470 (edited 04-28-2002).]

Last Friday yet another (3rd) rifle showed up from Winchester at my local gun shop.

BTW, while I was waiting on a rifle, I went to the gun show at the Fairgrounds in Raleigh. Big mistake! There on the table, was a brand new Safari Express for $799, and I paid $899 for the one that didn't work.

Ruined my day.

My dealer phoned me as soon as he mounted the scope and tried to boresight it. It has the same problem - No amount of windage adjustment will bring it inline.

I told him that I was going to check out the one I saw at the gun show since it was only about 30 miles away. I called to make sure it was still there, and found out that the gun show price was a mistake - it should have been $849.

So I took my scope and mounts with me and went to check it out. We mounted it, and with a few clicks, it was dead on! Then he told me that he would honor the gun show price, even though it would cost him $805 to replace it!

I shot my 24 or so test loads on Saturday (ouch), and it is now sitting at the gunsmith's shop to get a trigger job and smooth the extractor/ramp/follower "rough edges".

With 23 days before we leave, a great load has been lifted from my shoulders...

Rick.

When you talk to them in Winchester do they acknowledge that the stuff is crap, a great design, but poorly executed.

Or do they just go into denial mode.

Mike

For my particular problem, the factory was scrambling, and having some intense meetings, not knowing how many rifles had been made with that alignment problem.

The guy I talked to had just bought the same rifle a few months ago with his discount, and had not put a scope on it. So he was a little concerned about it, too.

Rick.

[This message has been edited by rick3foxes (edited 05-14-2002).]

It sounds more like a freak round of ammo than a gun failure.

Rick.

What really bothers me is that I like M-70's a lot and the lack of quality seems like a major problem there.

I am thinking back to the "disucssion" I had at a gun shop where the clerk told me that the new M-70's were "better in every way" as compared to the old M-70's that I asked about. I feel like printing this out and handing it to him!

This is not the first time that something was made wrong. What's disconcerning is the repeating of the error.