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Originally posted by Dave Bush:

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Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

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Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
These laws were not enacted under or at the direction of the current administration.

And RIP, I find your posting of that image repulsive and indefensible.

These laws are inarguably overbroad, IMHO, but they are the law. And let's not forget, that all one needs to do is obtain a license.

And licenses are not difficult to obtain.

I feel for these folks from Jamison. I am virtually certain that they did not intend to break the law. But anyone in the firearms or ammunition business needs to know and understand the law.

In the USA, as in nearly every nation on earth, ignorance of the law is no excuse, nor should it be.

Let's hope that these folks get good legal counsel, albeit after the fact, and are able to extricate themselves with civil, rather than criminal, penalties.

This IS on topic, because it is referring to the laws and the government which is causing the Jamisons (and the rest of us shooters) so much trouble.

"YEH, Those Jews should have known the law requires them to wear the yellow "Star of David" on their clothing at all times. There is no excuse for not knowing the law, so off to Auschwitz-Birkenau they rightfully go...

Welcome to the modern U.S. version of the police state, and its apologists."

If there was ever a time for jury-nullification of a law, this is it. It would be nice to follow it in November with voter nullification of the government AND its crackpot "fascisti" laws.

Albert:

Trying to draw an analogy between the Jamison International situation and the extermination of six million jews is a pretty big leap, don't ya think? p.

Dave - I hope on reflection you will understand I was not trying to make an analogy between the extermination of Jews in Europe and Jamison's situation. What I was trying to point out is that it is the same kind of "Lets all bow down like sheep to laws we know are dead wrong", which ALLOWS things like this to happen.

We need to be out there raising Hell about it with both the Administration and Congress (and maybe even the Supreme Court), not just saying...."Well, it will work itself out".

If citizens sit on their collective butts and don't ACT to help the victims, and to protect their own rights in the process, it WILL work itself out, against the citizens.

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As a Canadian it is easier for me to import firearms,etc. from Europe than from the U.S. due to the ever increasing export controls put in place by the U.S. government. As a result more of my money is now going east across the atlantic, and less is going south to our friends and neighbors in the U.S.

Ah! But! What you will also find is that very many here in Europe, myself included, sad to say, will not send ANYTHING to Canada!

Why? Because of the "anal" Canadian Customs Service that holds up and delays goods for months at a time.

After THREE such problems, with items sold on eBay to Canada, where the goods were TWO TO THREE MONTHS HELD IN CUSTOMS, I now no longer accept any bids, on eBay, from Canadian buyers.

You've a great country and a good people...just a shame that the few a**holes that you do have ALL seem to work for the Canadian Customs Service!

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One problem that MAY have caught Jamison is that you cannot sell such items to a person or company in the US without making sure that that person will not export them. You have to make your customers fill out a lot of paperwork and, for a company Jamison's size, it takes a lot of time to do this. You also have to do it each time you sell stuff to the same buyer. It's absurd to control such brass cases anyway but that's the way it is.

I'm only speculating. That may not be Jamison's problem. I suspect there was no intent on their part, however.

I hope that your speculation is off base. But it does raise an issue that could become a problem in the future.

Many of the specialty calibres are used for hunting in Africa. Up until now, anyone travelling to Africa simply fills out a Customs declaration at the US port of exit, without any special permit necessary. However, the Customs only lists the rifle serial number for re-import. The accompanying scope and ammunition, both of which require permits for businesses to export separately, have always been ignored by the customs people.

If the Jamison problem really includes secondary use as suggested, then we will all be in for some horrible redtape. E.g., if one travels with 80 rounds, will they need to bring back either the rounds or the empty cases, to show that they did not export them?

This can get ridiculous. I was once asked to fill out a bunch of forms from OpticsPlanet to buy a scope. I explained that I might use the gun and scope in Africa with a legal customs declaration. That was not good enough for the sales clerk. So I learned not to mention any potential use of a rifle outside the USA. The salesclerks need to know that the item will be used in the USA. Period. Then the customs people need to continue to make things possible for individual hunters to travel without Dept of Defense approval. Hunters should never be asked to do the paperwork that a million-dollar arms deal requires. So far, there is a commonsense protocol that keeps these separate.

What about foreign collectors getting cases
made in US, from the US. Do the same goofy
rules apply.Ed