If you had one choice between the 416 Rigby or the 458 Lott. Which one would you choose if you where in Africa and the species doesn't matter. And why would you pick that caliber.

Thanks

Steve

Probably the .416 Rigby, just because it's a more versatile round.

Two hundred yard shots are no problem for the Rigby; I'm not sure how the trajectory of a .458 Lott compares.

George
P.S. This assumes a normal rate of twist.

the Rigby reputation is hard to beat, and it does have the 200yd capability for big antelope or a rested shot at something bigger. Ultimate Lion rifle?

Rich

PS: if it had been allowed in the discussion, I would have taken the 470 M'bogo over either. One of my already made New Year's resolutions for 2007 is a big cased .475".

The stupid .700NE 1000gr solid drops about 5.5" at 200yrds (TKO 160 or > 2x that of 500gr Lott at the muzzle). Gee, it's too bad many of those SxS things have minute of baseball accuracy at 50 paces. Quit asking hard questions, man!

You would be very surprised at the actual accuracy of even a .700RLG at 1000 yrds much less 200. 1000gr bullet at 2500fps. Can you say 5 inch groups? Don't kid yourself, they are plenty accurate enough. The issue is can you shoot them that well? Trigger time is everything! Personally. the .416 Rigby is the hands down winner in my book. More than enough gun in the hands of a good shot. The Lott is a great cartridge as is the .450 Ackley and the watts but sometimes too much for some recoil sensitive folks. Thus, I'd give the Rigby the nod. I've killed one heck of a lot of critters including buff and lion with one and have a huge amount of well earned confidence in it-Rob

I bought a 416 Rigby after researching the available DG cartridges. Never been to Africa, but when I go, the 416 is going with.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Probably the .416 Rigby, just because it's a more versatile round.

Two hundred yard shots are no problem for the Rigby; I'm not sure how the trajectory of a .458 Lott compares.

George
P.S. This assumes a normal rate of twist.

Ole George hits it again.....may I add that the 416 should be a lot less intimidating to the shoulder!!!

Love the .416 Rigby !!

I chose the 458 Lott but I may still get a 416 Rigby.

One advantage of the 458 Lott is the ability to use 458 Win. Mag. ammo in it if for some reason the airline misplaced my baggage. I suspect that between the two, 458 Lott/Win. Mag. ammo might be easier to find than 416 Rigby ammo anywhere in the world.

The 416 Rigby probably has a flatter bullet curve but most shots probably wouldn't be much over 100 yards anyway.

Since the ballistic profile of both calibers versus recoil gets questionable on shots over 100 yds you may as well go for the 458 Lott.
Ammo is easier to source.

Mark

458 lott. cheap bullets, cheap brass, go!
jeffe

As much as I love the big stuff, for a hunting rifle I'd take the 416 every time. A 416 rigby has reasonable enough recoil that you can shoot from any field position and ignore the recoil, not so for a 458 Lott. Also you can have a Rigy that goes a good pound lighter than the Lott.

I've had two 458 Lotts, a just under 9 pounder, and the current one that tips right around 10 pounds. The lightweight was a stout recoiler, even with a ported barrel. The current one is much more shootable, but I wouldn't want to carry it for a week in 100+ deg temps.

Personally I'd opt for a 416 rem mag, because I don't see the need for the bulk of a big action required for the Rigby in a 40 sized rifle.

How would you rate the 416 Rigby if elephant was you're main species and a cape buffalo or two.

Steve

If it was just ele and cape buffalo, I'd go with the Lott. It does hit harder than the .416 Rigby. With that said the assumption is you can shoot both equally well. Most folks can handle a Rigby just fine while the Lott can be a little too much. If you can keep both on a pie plate at 25yds and have some basic anatomy knowledge either caliber will do just fine. If you go for a mixed bag then the Rigby wins hands down as its the more versitile of the two.-Rob

I would just buy one of each. Load the Rigby with 350gr spitzer-type bullets and zero at 200yds. That's what I have done with mine. The 416 Rem makes sense in a much tidier package, if the factory numbers are good enough for you. Fire the Lott up with 500gr bullets, or 550's if anyone makes that weight.

Rich

Is there much difference in trajectory between the 400 grain 2400 fps, and 500 grain 2250 fps loads, in 416 and 458?
In other words, at what distance does the 416 start having a flat shooting advantage?

Have many used the 416, either remmington or Rigby, as a one rifle plains and DG rifle?

GS

I've got to say this again..
the LOTT

bullet weights from 250 to 600gr, any size or shape you want.

load to nearly anyspeed, and if you go with the 400gr barnes X (the TSX isn't out yet) you can load it well past 2400fps.

then there's the remmie 405 bullets for pratice and northamerican game...

and you can get 5 or SIX in a cz 550 action.

and it's pretty easy to train to shoot

jeffe

My decision of a 416 Rigby is, based upon info from "the men in the know", is a good starting point into the world of true Bigbores. With TSX's or SAF"s the 458 should do reasonably well to 250 yds.

The 416Rigby of course. It could be just that I have 2 of them and took my last Elephant with one. I find them to be good shooting guns of great versatility.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I've got to say this again..
the LOTT...

if you go with the 400gr barnes X (the TSX isn't out yet) you can load it well past 2400fps.

jeffe

I ran my 400gr X load over mjines's crony, got 2500fps. Shot my young eland with this load last year at around 150yds. Front shoulder to oppisite flank and an exit.

Hog Killer

Hog Killer

el jeffe, I figured 2500 fps with a 450 TSX.

Zeroed @ 250yds, 4.3"s high @ 100yds drops 8" @ 320yds. This gives an effective zero of a 12" "corridor".

I hope 2500 fps is doable with the 450 TSX in the Lott.

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
Is there much difference in trajectory between the 400 grain 2400 fps, and 500 grain 2250 fps loads, in 416 and 458?
In other words, at what distance does the 416 start having a flat shooting advantage?

Have many used the 416, either remmington or Rigby, as a one rifle plains and DG rifle?
GS

I used my .404jeffery as a one gun DG/PG in Moz. & RSA in 2004. It worked great, but I would have liked to have had the 340grNF w/ me then Still, a 380grsp @ 2250fps is flat shooting enough to connect @ 200yds & kills everything well. It's not so much that it's flatter shooting but easier to shoot from any field position. The 340/350gr @ 2500fps+ would make it just that much easier for PG.

Go for the Lott. When you do you will have the most versitile, most available DG round you can get, given that it will digest 458wm when required.

Load your ammo mild, a 458 will give you all the performance you need but you can do a little better with the Lott at the same pressures.

You should bring a second rifle anyway so pick a 375H&H for your second rifle in case your Lott goes tits up. Sight the Lott for 100yds and the 375 for 2" high at 100yds and all will be well.

JPK

As much as I dislike belted cartridges I would go with the Lott. Haven't experimented beyond 200 yards with my 458's but they seem pretty consistant that I would {with a little practice} consider much longer shots as for plains game or even elk.

Easy, 416 Rigby or 404 Jeffery, enough punch, mild recoil, great penetration and both are classic rounds. I would use 400-410 grain @2300-2400fps for everything

Isn't 458 Lott a bit pedestrian?

Cheers
/JOHAN

416 Rigby - not such a high pressure round. Northfork offers 325 and 370 grain bullets - plenty for all you want to do. Can be down loaded if you so wish, from a high of 2600 fps with 370 grainers, thus more versatile that a 458 Lott. With SA powders pressures run 62,500 psi to achieve 2,250 fps (with 500 gr bullets) in the 458 Lott.

I maintain that no more impact velocity is needed than 2,100 fps for hunting. Most premium Softs work well at this velocity (best weight retention ratio's & no over expansion) and the Nortfork manufacturer states that ... "With North Forks, the mushroom size is at it’s maximum around 2,100 fps."

Chris

If I lived in the US this would have been the easiest question to ask myself.

I would just make sure that I get both. If i did not like either one I would just sell the other but chances are that I would just keep both any way.

You guys are so Lucky! Here you have to justify why you want two large calibers and then wait months to have your application denied!

Both these calibers are excellent choices so why not have both?

Boy ... you don't pick an easy one.

Life is a series of trade-offs. Rigby can be very flat shooting and has more range at a given drop. Loaded with 350 TSXs it can make 2700 fps with ease. That's about 5600 lb-ft of energy. Has a trajectory not unlike a .338 Win Mag. Kills Buf well. Cases are outrageous in price. They last well. Ammo is not availble in country.

Lott is inexpensive to load and shoot. Practice is good. Delivers very much energy to the target and has the cross sectional area to transfer it.

Can use .458 Win Mag ammo which may be available locally. On a less that deep budget and at closer ranges, the Lott is a GREAT choice.

Have fun during the planning stage ... and don't worry the choice to death. Can't go much wrong here.

The 416 Rigby.

I went for the Lott and have used it to 200 yards with a good scope, no problem, but the Rigby is a relly great and flexible round, edge your bets go for both it wil make a fantastic battery.

With the Lott the recoil issue can however be a problem as Rob points out, especially with the heavier 500 plus grain loads.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
I hope 2500 fps is doable with the 450 TSX in the Lott.

Hmm. Now, I have never tried that, but I know what happens when heavy bullets start going fast. That one would be a LOTT harder on your shoulder than a 500 grs at 2200. Which means a heavier gun.
And for what?
Flatter trajectory?
It ain't that hard to figure holdover out to 300 yards. Beyond that, you need a rangefinder anyway.

I would not want any of them, but if to choose, I'd go with the Lott and duplicate the loads of the .450 NE.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
I hope 2500 fps is doable with the 450 TSX in the Lott.

Hmm. Now, I have never tried that, mut I know what happens when heavy bullets start going fast. That one would be a LOTT harder on your shoulder than a 500 grs at 2200. Which means a heavier gun.
And for what?
Flatter trajectory?
It ain't that hard to figure holdover out to 300 yards. Beyond that, you need a rangefinder anyway.

I'd go with the Lott loaded to 2200.

Sound advice. 2300 fps if you want a flatter trajectory for some reason. But if you really want 2500 fps, then the 460 Wby or 450 Dakota is the way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
I hope 2500 fps is doable with the 450 TSX in the Lott.

I strongly doubt it... 2400, perhaps, but with pressure excursions...

generally (this is NOT reloading advice) you can swap 50gr for 50fps, in bullets around these weights... NOT 50gr for 200 fps.

jeffe

I would go with the Lott as I have seen more PH's with one vs. the Rigby.

Maybe we should hold a 300 yrd Postal match with our Big bores. It would be fun to post actual targets shot by actual members of AR. Of course we would have to insist on verification for certain members whose honesty is questionable. Anybody interested?-Rob

Geez, Rob, I'd hate to be seen at the range with a 6.5x-20x Leupold atop my .470 Capstick.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Geez, Rob, I'd hate to be seen at the range with a 6.5x-20x Leupold atop my .470 Capstick.

George

Yeah! That would be a bit much! But your group on the target you posted in the "Why a lott" thread was outstanding!

quote:

I strongly doubt it... 2400, perhaps, but with pressure excursions...

generally (this is NOT reloading advice) you can swap 50gr for 50fps, in bullets around these weights... NOT 50gr for 200 fps.

Barnes states about 2450 with the 450 gr X bullet in their current manual(I don't have it in front of me as I am at work). Given the length of the TSX I would say you would end up sacrificing powder capacity and the 2450 would be unreachable without loading them out a bit...but then you overrun the 3.6" OAL and max out the mag box. Maybe in a Ruger #1.

HHmmm! 2450, you say. That's going to penetrate like a drill rig! Regardless of twist! ( Sorry I couldn't resist)