I'm curious on others views on major american gun makers (Winchester,Weatherby,etc.)and the sub .50 diameter wich seems to have capped the DG cartridge designs (.458 win, .460 weatherby,etc.) .With other companies producing .60 and above why was .458 decided as enough? While I do realize the .458 is a reasonable and able bullet and can be a formidable stopper.
I still dream of a day were I could pull a .510 winchester or .577 weatherby from my gun safe.

firefly,
several reasons..
first, let's clear up the beyound.510 myth.
commerical rounds over .510

700 nitro
600 nitro
577 nitro

Near commerical
577 trex
585 nyati

wildcats
600 OK
550 magnum
550 express

The 550's are the closest you'll ever see to a XXX weatherby..

Several reasons, first that most people can't even begin to shoot them in a hunting configuration without a VERY heavy gun and a muzzle brake. second, the ATF has to approve rounds over .500 (not .510) as sporting, rather than the default of destructive devices.

third, demand. I doubt there's 100 585 nyatis running around, problaby 50 577 trex, couple dozen 550s, 600s, and others.

Fourthly .. bullets and brass.. the biggest you can take a "normal" piece of brass, in a bolt gun, is .550. Until Neal began the 550 project, there just wasn't any. He invented a caliber and a cartridge. bullets were .510, .585, .600 ...


So, about the closest thing you can get is a 510wells/500asquare off the weatherby case, for your 500 weatherby. There is simply nothing to headspace from bigger than that, withouth $$$$$$ brass, except the 550


Have you shot a super big bore (over 1/2") ??

btw, the ,500 rule is why the linebaugh and 500 SW are .500 bullets, not .510

jeffe

Jeffe, FWIW the Linebaugh is .510. The S&W and 50AE are .500. My understanding a .500 bore diameter, not groove diameter.

Jefgfo,

you really think worldwide there would only be 100 .585 Nyati's ??

Harry,
thanks for correcting that.. thought all the big pistols were 500

the LAW applies to the bore, but a jury would easily see "see, the digital calipers read .510"... or, subject to local mis-intrep!

PC,
yeah, i think there's less than 100 585's running about.. ross invented this just 20 years ago, and until the ruger and cz, even the lott wasn't seen a whole bunch. I have seen/shot ONE. You have one, there's about 4 running around on AR, and I expect we are of the "freaks" that would have them.
jeffe

If that remark is going towards the suggestion of recoil tolerance think of it this way, you can't sum up the larger then .5" bore guns as super kickers cause if bore size was not taken into acount that there is too much kick since the .416 and .460 weatherby supply enough of that on there own. especially the .460.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
firefly,




Have you shot a super big bore (over 1/2") ??


jeffe

I think that Winchester took the standard .532 bolt head and opened up the neck to fit their new big bore cartridge and found that .45+ was as big as they could go and still leave an adequate shoulder. Usually whatever the big guys develop first becomes the standard.

quote:

jeffe

You are probably right about 100 585 Nyatis. However it is amazing just how much weird stuff is out there.

I was reading the other day that Weatherby made 2000 378s on the Shultz and Larson action. I would have thought there would not have been 2000 378s made since it came out to today

I am friends with the people that import Hornadys into Australia and it always amazes me when I call in there after a shipment has arrived all the boxes of 375 and 458 projectiles they have.

I would not be at all suprised if a high percentage of the owners of 50 calibre and over are on the various forums. My bet would be that 95% or more of "real powerful rifles" would be 460 Wbys.

Mike

Firefly,
the 460 is a good reference point, to start. a 505 gibbs, loaded to factory, is about the same... then more in the 500 jeffe, then lotts more in the .510 based weatherbys... and then when you get to the 550s and 585's, the recoil gets nearly TWICE in the nyati and trex.

the 460 and the 577 nitro are about the same, and then things go up from there

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by firefly:
I'm curious on others views on major american gun makers (Winchester,Weatherby,etc.)and the sub .50 diameter wich seems to have capped the DG cartridge designs (.458 win, .460 weatherby,etc.) .With other companies producing .60 and above why was .458 decided as enough? While I do realize the .458 is a reasonable and able bullet and can be a formidable stopper.
I still dream of a day were I could pull a .510 winchester or .577 weatherby from my gun safe.

You've obviously never fired even a .458 let alone something larger, or your question would be answered. Most folks can't handle the recoil of a 458, so the market for larger guns is very, very small. Too small for the major makers to offer something in that size. There are also darn few hunters that find a need for anything more than a .458, and the majority of DGR's are chambered in the .375 H&H or one of the several 416's out there.

If there was a market for the majors to offer a 50 or larger, they would, but there isn't, so they don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:

You've obviously never fired even a .458 let alone something larger, or your question would be answered.

Maybe someday we'll get together and shoot my 458 Win. with the 600 grain bullets I use to reload it with Though they seem to be more gentle then the Hornady factory loads with the 500 grainers. Even then my 416 Rigby gives me more kick then either of the two with it's 400 grain bullets.
I don't think a mass relation can be placed soley on bullet size vs. kick. Though reading through several articles on recoil I noticed the .458 fear that can be burned in the minds of readers that never even handled one before.
To me these guns are not for plinking or general target shooting (I think many think the same) none the less sometimes only see a shot or two in a hunting scenerio. Muzzle energy plays the biggest part in my eyes when recoil is factored in. I'd shoot a 700 nitro express double before picking up a gun that weighed the same but chambered for a 50 bmg and loaded heavy with no muzzle break.(Most likely the reason 50 bmg guns weigh 20++ lbs. and are muzzle breaked).

I understand the market, etc. etc . role. I was just curious on others views.

Cheers,