I just acquired a 1910 M-S takedown rifle in 9.5x57 (also known as 9.5x56 M-S and .375 Nitro Express Rimless) with a date code indicating 1929 manufacture. I was fortunate in that the seller included about 50 rounds of handloads made with 270-grain Hornady SPs in .30-06 reformed brass, plus a few dozen more reformed .30-06 and 8x57 cases all set to reload.

The standard load for this cartridge is a 270-grain bullet at around 2100 fps, and the handloads I received used 44 grains of IMR 3031 behind the 270-grain Hornadys, but no velocity figure was provided.

I know this is mostly an obsolete cartridge that isn't chambered by anyone currently, but I was wondering if anyone has field experience with it and any reloading data to share. Thanks in advance!

Eric,

Is it as nice as you hoped?

George

I really like the old Mannlicher-schoenauers. I have a 6.5X54MS, a 8X56MS and a .270 win. They all shoot really well and are really beautifully made. If you ever want to sell or trade your 9.3X57 give me a call.-Rob

Eric,
while that may look nice, it's really just going to be an unending hassle for you...

in order to prevent these conflicts for you in the future, with tis gun

please box up and ask the usps person to send to

jeffe osso
123 gunmith lane
porter, texas.....

jeffe

Eric,

Here is some data.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=250

jim

I think that I am familiar with the rifle you bought. Was it in Sunny California?

I have its older brother, also a 1910 M/S., albeit, with a flip-up tang sight. From time to time Old Western Scrounger has ammo for the gun. I just bought the last box in inventory last month. I have the take-down model with a lever under the magazine and a twist nob on the forend. It comes apart in 5 seconds!

The gun is a poor shooter, only 2.5 inches at 100 yards... alas!

Mine came with the original case (in rather poor condition, though).

I have NEVER worked an action so smooth. I sure wish I knew the history of this rifle and the lions or tigers it probably killed. I may take it to Africa with me this summer as a back up to my Cogswell & Harrison in .375 Flanged N.E. That'd be two rifles of the same caliber and performance: 2100 fps and a 270 round nose... I wouldn't want to be anything smaller than a buffalo up against it. And a 9.5mm solid would probably do o.k. with Mr. M'bogo, too, come to think about it.

I'll get a picture for this thread tomorrow.

BTW, Mbogo375 has a M/S action marketed by H&H in .375 Flanged. It uses "clips" that are ejected on the last round, though.. I guess because of the rimmed round. I shot it once and it is as accurate as any .375 diameter rifle I've shot. A beautiful piece and that little H&H stamp makes it worth a bundle, I'm sure.

George:

It's a little more worn than as it was represented, but acceptable nevertheless. Thanks again for the lead; they were very nice to deal with.

Jeffe:

Geez, give me a chance to use up the loaded ammo first before I dump it!

Jim:
Thanks for the URL. I'd seen it before while researching the rifle. Basically, the 9.5x57 sounds a lot like the .358 Winchester, but with a bigger and slower bullet.

I've had four of the 1910's, 2 carbines and 2 TD rifles. 44 grs. of 3031 was about the max that I had tried, using original brass. I thinkKynoch still loads for it. I think I have still have dies and proper brass lying around somewhere.

Original M-S takedown pins had a small latch inletted into the side of the pin that must be depressed to pull the pin out. Rifles stocked in England have used other styles. Keep in mind that this is also the first part to get lost, so replacements are common.

KurtC:

Thanks for the commentary. Any chance you'd be willing to part with the dies and properly head-stamped brass at a reasonable price? If so, contact me by direct e-mail.

I also figured that the forearm pin was a part prone to being misplaced, so I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case here. Know of a source for an original replacement part?

And speaking of the English, the chamber section of the barrel is marked "Not English Make" so I presume this one has been in England.

Eric,

Be sure to slug the bore if you haven't already. I have a 1910 full stock marked 375 Express with English proofs. It was a fair shooter, but I always thought that it should shoot better. I slugged the bore and found that groove diameter was just over .380 (I believe that it is fairly common to find groove diameters up to the .378 range). It groups much better with .377 bullets intended for the 38/55 (255 grain Hawk). It does best with .378 bullets that I swage up from .375 Hornady 270 grain RN in a point forming die from RCE that I got for my my 375 2.5 Flanged NE double. Anything larger than this would require neck turning to reduce thickness and allow free release of the bullets.

As a point of interest, I have found that .003 below groove diameter seems to be the point where groups start to improve in a lot of these older rifles and calibers. It remains good up through .002 above groove diameter (and a bit more in some rifles as well). These are just generalizations of course, as each rifle is a law unto itself, but it seems to be a pretty common phenomenon with deep grooves and Henry style rifling. Throw these generalizations out the window with very shallow grooves or "invisible" rifling however, as you are in a whole new ballgame there.

As for powders I have used IMR 3031, Norma 201, and H335. I expect that Reloader 15 and Varget would work well also, and these are the powders that I will try next in 1910 MS.

Chambers vary considerably in these 9.5's, so you may find that standard dies may not match your chamber well, but with judicious adjustments they will probably work OK. In my rifle the chamber shoulder is about .010 larger than the die, so the brass is worked more than I would like but brass life is still all right.

Good luck, and let us know what the groove diameter is,
Jim

Mbogo375: Sir, I have a Remington 700 classic I had rebarreled to the 9.5 M-S with a 1/12 twist. It shoots very well with the hornady 270 grain spire point using 47 grains IMR 4064, and the CCI large rifle primer, at an overall length of 3.108 inches. This load is 2 grains below the maximum I would use in this rifle. Regards, ned

Eric I have one also its the take down model with the pop up tang sight, and the grip area has been reinforced with brass plates, it came out of Zim back in the 60's and was given to my father, I make the rounds out of either 06 or 270 brass, trim to lenght and load with the 270 slugs also, have used it to take, deer and one black bear, it never stops to amaze how smooth the bolt is

missing pin or screw?

Someone post me a drawing or a pic, and i'll try to make eric a replacement.

eric,
i am telling you, it's just going to take all your time and effort away from the 470 double... I figured the 470 is more dear, but if you truely want to make your life happy and free from stress....


nah, it's funnier if i DONT say it.

best of luck..

btw, the 376 is going back into the woods today

jeffe

Great information and stories, everyone; thanks! Keep 'em coming...

I found a M-S 9.5x57 several years ago and upon looking through the bore found that there was "no" rifling left in the barrel. I was able to aquire it for a very good price and sent the barrel in to have the deminsions duplicated in 7x57. It is a real fun gun.

The wood was beautiful after I got 70 years of oil and dents out of it. The horn pistol grip, double triggers, and the stamps in the stock were very interesting to me.

Steve

I have always wanted to punch one out to 9.3x62 but was always afraid to tackle that rotary magazine..but wouldn't that be a nice gun!!

Ray,

They started making them in 9.3x62 in 1924, using the longer action. There has always been speculation that one of the custom shops made some in 9.3x57 on the 1910 action, but I have never seen one.

Here is a half stock 1950 in 9.3x62, with a little scrollwork added. I have another with a full length custom stock, but don't have any pictures of it.

Here's a link to the Kynoch loading:

9.5 Mannlicher-Schoenauer

Thanks all, this is an interesting thread. I also have a 9.5 x 57 MS take-down, labelled as Model 1910, and stamped "Not English make". The forend is held on by a screw that passes through a loop round the barrel. Does anyone know how to date the year of manufacture? Also, I'd like to fit a (period) scope - are parts likely to be available, any leads?

Regarding loads, it's not possible (easy) to get IMR powders over here in the UK. I've tried RL12, but I think it was a bit fast. RL15 seems better, and I also plan to try Varget. The problem I have right now is getting enough neck tension to hold the bullet head (Hornady 270 gn). I have some (recent manufacture) Kynoch cases, and some re-sized from old 30-06. Any thoughts appreciated - anneal the necks?

Thanks

Andrew

RL 15 might be a little too slow. The Varget should be OK. The 30-06 brass will likely be a bit thicker than factory brass. If you can find some Federal Gold Medal Match Brass in 30-06 it should work well. I bought some Berdan brass for mine when I had it. Very expensive; indifferent quality (that is a kind assessment).

The actions were imported into England where the barrels and stocks were fitted. I don't know, but wouldn't be surprised if some fully barreled actions were imported.

Try the Mannlicher Collectors Society for help with dating your rifle.

Griffin & Howe fitted side mounts on a fair number of Mannlichers in the US. I had one on a MS in 6.5 x 53/54. If you don't have the scope mount on your rifle yet, I would take a pass. Those light little M 1910's have pretty sharp recoil in that caliber. You might end up with a divot out of the back of the inside of your skull from the ocular end of the scope.

Many of these originally had a curved butt plate. That had to be a real treat to torch off. Mine had a rotted Silvers pad on it when I bought it from "ole Walter up in Anchorage in 1994. I had the pad replaced. It was a fun rifle, but I sold it off to someone who would better apreciate its collector status.

Have your gunsmith make a chamber cast of your rifle, and slug the bore. That will answer many questions.

Huntingtons carries Horneber brass in 9.5 x 57 MS. Very good quality.

lawndart

PS I haven't forgotten about that AR-15 barrel. It is around here soewhere, but I can't find it. CRS strikes again.

"Not English make"

means the barreled action bears other countries proof marks, not english ones, that the english accept as proofed.. but in the typical english (not british) view point, if it wasn't actually made and tested IN england, then "one can't expect it to be English make, can one"

and, techincally, it also applies to all the firearms made in the UK but not in england, though in practice, this doesn't happen

jeffe

Since you have a take-down model, dating the rifle should be pretty easy. Remove the stock, and look at the bottom of the barrel . There should be a mark something like "1234.12", which would be the 1234th rifle proofed (at the Austrian proof house) in 1912. There should also be a "C9.5" somewhere denoting it as a 9.5mm caliber rifle.

I've had really good luck with RL-15 and the Hornady 270gr bullets.

Mannlicher Collectors Society Website

Washougal Chris

Thanks for the replies, very helpful.

Point taken about the scope/recoil issue. Recoil doesn't seem too bad so far, but maybe I haven't got to the factory loading yet!

Chris - what sort of charges of RL15 did you have success with?

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by ats:
Thanks for the replies, very helpful.

Point taken about the scope/recoil issue. Recoil doesn't seem too bad so far, but maybe I haven't got to the factory loading yet! Andrew

----------------------------------------



I seriously doubt you will find the factory loads to produce any serious recoil. It was never a "high intensity" load as loaded by the factories. I found in my several M1910 carbines that 40 grs. of IMR 3031 (behind the 235 gr. Speer bullet intended for the .375 H&H) very nicely duplicated factory Kynoch velocities and was an absolute pussy-cat to shoot. An excellent deer-killer, too. Varget and RL-15 are a tad slower burning, so if I lived in Europe I'd probably try V V - N133 instead, or that dirty old TU 3000. At any rate it is certainly a fine cartridge and rifle. Sure wish I had one or more of mine back......

Dear Andrew,

Start at 49gr RL-15/ 270gr Hornady RN, and work up from there. Do you have access to a chronograph? I've gotten up to 2200 fps from my rifle. I also tried that load in my carbine, but it didn't regulate with the sights (3" low at 50 yds) so I never chronographed it.

Washougal Chris

Thanks, I'll start at 49gr and go up (carefully)!

Andrew