Looking at one with serial number 687XXX, any idea of when it was made? I heard BRNO's had a "rough patch".

Barrel is approx 25", would that work for a DGR or just too long?

Thanks very much

quote:

Barrel is approx 25", would that work for a DGR or just too long?

IMO the lenght of the barrel is not an issue, the balance of the rifle is.

The year during which it was proofed should be stamped on the barrel. Last two digits of the particular year. Look out for something like "92" or "81" or similar next to the proof marks.

I find the CZ/BRno standard 25.5" works fine for its big game calibres. Not into this current trend of 21" barrels and ultralight guns etc

Is the BRNO worth building around? Good quality mauser?

Thinking I might rebarrel one I'm looking at, want to make sure its worth investing in.

Thanks

10G,

think CZ550 Magnum action...

They are like my BBK and I got 585 HE in it.
Great for what I call bigbore.Ed

I got mine back in the 1980s when there was a trade embargo on Yugoslavia. Had to jump through hoops and import it via a Canadian dealer. I like it but it is not fancy. The 25" barrel doesn't bother me.

wow.. the crapformation presented

a 602 has ONE cool feature, sometimes, and that is a built in peep site .. without the peepsite, they are CRAP ...i sold ed his bbk, which i told was crap BEFORE a wellknown member BUTCHERED IT - and told ed so, i tok a bath selling it ...

a 602 is NOT a cz, 550 or not ... not even close, though the top part of the action inletting is identical .. the 60x has the trigger mounted to the bottom metal ... and requires enthusiastic welding and machining to use a 550 trigger, either factory or timney

the safety is BACKWARDS ... push forward for fire , back for safe, cz part's don't fit, nor do aftermarket

dovetail rings swap... bolt MIGHT swap, that's about it...

but, of course, i am likely the only one posting thats owned a bbk, 602, 550, magnum mauser (2 versions) legacy megnum, and ruger magnum RSM KNOW what i am taking about on these huge actions

in short, if the 602 doesnt have the peepsight and it more than 1/2 the cost of a new cz 550, then its both JUNK and over priced...

Another thread hammered flat by the 'moderator'.

jeffeoso, you know very well how popular base-rifle BRNO 602 is when building serious hunting rifles for PH:s. The bolt movement is rough as new but it´s very easy to make better. IMO CZ 550 do not have any better details, even the way how to quick detachable lock in BRNO is one better detail in that action. Peep sight is good but it seems that it´s popular mostly in USA.

That post saying the BRNO is crap surprises me. I've read that a ton of PH's have used this action in rifles for years with much success.

Do others agree/disagree with that assessment?

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:
Another thread hammered flat by the 'moderator'.

Since I have mainly rifles built on ZKK60x actions, I hope I'm allowed an opinion.

Earlier ZKK actions used to have serial numbers where the first 2 digits were the year of manufacture. Usually on the action, you can see the proof mark with two digits under it or alongside it - these give the year as well.

Starting in the late 70s to early 80s they were very rough.

They clean up very nicely, though and were in great demand for PHs and guides in Zimbabwe. Sure, they aren't H&H, but they served and continue to do so.

I'm happy with the 25" barrel - others have cut them shorter, but (to me) that makes them butt heavy unless there is a bit of work doen on balance and fit.

I wish all my BRNOs had the pop-up peepsight, but in reality it's more useful on the DG calibres than on a rifle that you'll scope and never unscope.

BTW - Jeff Cooper built his favourite DG rifle (called "Baby", IIRC) on a ZKK602.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
wow.. the crapformation presented

a 602 has ONE cool feature, sometimes, and that is a built in peep site .. without the peepsite, they are CRAP ...i sold ed his bbk, which i told was crap BEFORE a wellknown member BUTCHERED IT - and told ed so, i tok a bath selling it ...

a 602 is NOT a cz, 550 or not ... not even close, though the top part of the action inletting is identical .. the 60x has the trigger mounted to the bottom metal ... and requires enthusiastic welding and machining to use a 550 trigger, either factory or timney

the safety is BACKWARDS ... push forward for fire , back for safe, cz part's don't fit, nor do aftermarket

dovetail rings swap... bolt MIGHT swap, that's about it...

but, of course, i am likely the only one posting thats owned a bbk, 602, 550, magnum mauser (2 versions) legacy megnum, and ruger magnum RSM KNOW what i am taking about on these huge actions

in short, if the 602 doesnt have the peepsight and it more than 1/2 the cost of a new cz 550, then its both JUNK and over priced...

I'm starting to think that you are rather under-qualified to be the moderator of a forum dealing with big bore rifles...

+1..I have only praise for the 602..

I really like CZ rifles in both the 602 and 550, I have shot them extensively and would not hesitate to trust a well polished one.

But for my money the Win M70 Safari Express actions available new over the counter are top class and leave very little to be desired. They feed FN solids as fast as I can load them without any gunsmithing, and the stock design is very comfortable to shoot even hot loads.

For the extra R 5000, its worth it.
Good luck
Ian

quote:

The safety is BACKWARDS ... push forward for fire , back for safe, cz part's don't fit, nor do aftermarket

Another AR member gave me a handy tip about this. Think of it as a Winchester 94! You pull the "hammer" back to cock it to fire...drop it forward to make it safe.

BUT! I have a standard side safety P-Hale "Mauser 98" as well as a BRNO ZKK 600 and, to be honest, there are times when I've forgotten and put the ZKK 600 ON SAFE when I wanted to take a shot.

IMHO for that sole reason alone it is, if you use other rifles with a conventional side safety it is a "no no" for a dangerous game rifle.

Habit can cost more than just a lost shot..

I bought my first ZKK 602 in Germany in 1970, a .375 H&H, which I modified by shortening the barrel and took it on a driven boar hunt. Sitting in wait for something to appear, I pondered the "backwards" safety and decided to disengage it, so as to avoid confusion if something popped up suddenly. You guessed it. Two "Ueberlaeufers" (yearlings) crossed in front of me, and I mounted the rifle and tried to squeeze off a shot. Nothing happened, of course, because I had instinctively shoved the safety forward! Missed opportunity.

Since then I have had the safety modified with the addition of a Model 70 type arrangement and the rifle converted to .500 Jeffery. I couldn't be more pleased with it.

Hint, as kuduae has elsewhere pointed out, one of the main sources of action roughness is the extractor sleeve and the bolt area under it. Replacing the sleeve with a machined Mauser sleeve and removing the tool marks underneath to a long way to smoothing the action out.

That 30 years ago, the 602 was the lowest cost action is without question. at the same time, a true magnum Mauser could be bought for 3-4 times the cost

PHs aren't rich or wealthy- though one is unlikely to find a named British house building high quality guns on the 602

Sure. One can rework and change many things to make them a better action - especially if you are starting from the equivalent if a post 64 cost cutting low quality version of the 602

Cz found enough wrong to change nearly everything

Sorry yiu you feel this was a hammered by moderator thread. I am presenting fact to avoid bad money spent.

The cz 550 is a better action, and is cheap to purchase.

Would you let someone build a 270 on a 1945 Mauser?

quote:

jeffeosso: one is unlikely to find a named British house building high quality guns on the 602

Rigby used them, not to mention top European and American custom builders.
Some of the most beautiful American made 416s I have seen are Lon Paul 602s.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:

quote:

jeffeosso: one is unlikely to find a named British house building high quality guns on the 602

Rigby used them, not to mention top European and American custom builders.
Some of the most beautiful American made 416s I have seen are Lon Paul 602s.

All very true. I have seen a Rigby .416 Rigby made with a BRNO ZKK 602 action.
That is certainly better than making one from a standard M98 Mauser opened up.

I have a 602 that started as a .375 H&H, got turned into a .510/460Wby,
then got rebarreled again to .500/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved, aka 12.7x68mm "49-10." It is a very accurate and fully functional rifle.

The only reason I would go the BRNO ZKK 602 route again would be to get that integral peep that some have, early ones I reckon.
CZ-USA has started offering this pop-up peep again, as a customizing touch on the CZ 550 Magnum in the last year or two.
So now I have no reason to use the BRNO ZKK 602 instead of the CZ 550 Magnum.
My old 602 does not have the integral peep.

I agree it is a MUST to change out the safety, for all of us hard-wired to push a safety forward to fire.
The single, non-set trigger with a hinge pin in the bottom metal is OK, if tuned by a competent gunsmith.
I like that trigger on mine, and never considered using the funky alternative set trigger that came in a parts bag with the rifle.

Here is the BRNO ZKK 602 rifle with Ed Lapour 3-position M70-style safety, bottom-metal-hinged standard 602 trigger,
and the standard CZ 550 Magnum rings that work just fine on it.
McMillan (medium brown moulded-in color) fiberglass stock, can be used for either the BRNO ZKK 602 or the CZ 550 Magnum,
with gunsmith fitting and bedding.
That is a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36mm scope to make use of 300-yard accuracy shooting with this .500-caliber rifle:





Shown above is the Quick-Detachable-Quick-Detachable Scope Ring Lever (QDQD Lever Rings). The lever itself is QD as well as the rings.
This easy modification uses a standard metric automotive hex-head machine screw to replace the slotted-head primary mounting screw/bolt on the rings.
The QDQD lever may be carried in your pocket.

This is as strong a scope mounting system as anyone could ever need on a shoulder-fired/man-portable big bore, whether BRNO ZKK 602 or CZ 550 Magnum.
You can torque those primary mounting screws/bolts to 60-65 inch-pounds with your torque wrench, yet still be able to remove them in a pinch,
with a QDQD Lever from your pocket.

QDQD Lever Detached:



Preliminary 300-yard shooting with this rifle, reading the Tennessee Elevation and Kentucky Windage:

I can only speak from personal experience with a limited number of large magnum actions. I currently have a 602ZKK in 375 with a 21" bbl. This was Jon Speed's rifle when he was a game warden. He must have liked it, at least he told me so. I cut the Bbl to 21" installed a barrel front sling swivel and straightened the bolt handle added a Masterpiece front ramp with elevation adjustments (I wanted to keep the original rear as I like it) with a red fiber optic sight blade. The other currently owned large action is a CZ 550 in 416Rigby. It also has the same mods as the Brno 602ZKK. I have owned 2 Ruger RSM's one 416Rigby one 458WinMag. I dislike the RSM 's very much for totally personal esthetic reasons. As to the safties, I have had absolutely no problems adjusting to them and I have hunted dangerous game with both many times and felt totally comfortable each time. I also hunt with a Browning superposed with a top tang safety,a model 12 Winchester with a cross push safety in the trigger guard,a Model 99 Savage, one with tang safety one with the weird thing in back of trigger that locks lever M1 Garand with safety in front slot of trigger guard,Browning sweet sixteen with sliding safety in front of trigger guard,Model 94,94,95,86 Winchesters which have hammer safety notch and the absolutely weirdest of all on a Thompson singleshot topbreak 219Donaldson Wasp.. I never had the slightest trouble adapting to any one I was using at the time.

I picked mine up a few years ago at Cabelas in Buda for $700. A bargain as it already had the three position safety installed, a non-set trigger, checkered bolt knob and the QD rings. The forend checkering had also been extended. No peep though. I had the barrel cut to 23" and an NECG sight fitted. Had a gent on another forum refinish the stock adding the crossbolts, forend tip and recoil pad. The only other I have seen with the "British style" stock was when I was living in Calgary. I passed on it and went back the next day to find it gone. Thought I would never find another. Great rifle.

I bought my first 602 from Bauska in the mid 80s, paid a little over $300 for it. At the time, the only other magnum length actions were original Oberndorf #20s, Brevexes or Enfields. I could not afford any of the others, except maybe an Enfield, and was very happy to get it, despite its roughness. It had most of the desirable Mauser features and that was more important to me.

This is the treatment Lon Paul gave my .500 Jeffery 602. He reworked the factory stock to my specifications.

I can stand at one side of the room, facing the door, looking at the door knob, then mount the rifle in the ordinary way and find the post reticle of the scope lined up on the knob. For me, this is a prerequisite of a dangerous game rifle.

This rifle has a three position safety, a direct trigger, and a pop-up peep, which is the reason for the lack of sights on the barrel.









I was fortunate to have this rifle shipped to me on July 12, just three days before a fire destroyed Lon's shop, taking with it three of my rifles which were there for the Lon Paul touch. My insurance has just paid off this week.

quote:

Originally posted by jvw375:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
wow.. the crapformation presented

a 602 has ONE cool feature, sometimes, and that is a built in peep site .. without the peepsite, they are CRAP ...i sold ed his bbk, which i told was crap BEFORE a wellknown member BUTCHERED IT - and told ed so, i tok a bath selling it ...

a 602 is NOT a cz, 550 or not ... not even close, though the top part of the action inletting is identical .. the 60x has the trigger mounted to the bottom metal ... and requires enthusiastic welding and machining to use a 550 trigger, either factory or timney

the safety is BACKWARDS ... push forward for fire , back for safe, cz part's don't fit, nor do aftermarket

dovetail rings swap... bolt MIGHT swap, that's about it...

but, of course, i am likely the only one posting thats owned a bbk, 602, 550, magnum mauser (2 versions) legacy megnum, and ruger magnum RSM KNOW what i am taking about on these huge actions

in short, if the 602 doesnt have the peepsight and it more than 1/2 the cost of a new cz 550, then its both JUNK and over priced...

I'm starting to think that you are rather under-qualified to be the moderator of a forum dealing with big bore rifles...

Finding it hard to believe that an action who can take everything up to 505 Gibbs(and beyond..), and which have been used by Rigby is pure crap??? Good steel, outstanding scope mounts if you use Warne rings, modified with a M70 safety, this is one of the best starting points when building a 375 or bigger safari working rifle!

I can sure tell you that I trust mine!





M

Nice looking rifles

That took gobs of money/time to get there

as for handling a gibbs, sorry guys, a relatively stock looking Enfield can do the same-or larger.

Good steel? All modern commercial actions are "good steel" even the hideous moss berg 800 bolt gun. Heck the marlin bolt guns today, even the rem 710, are engineering marvels if great steel though nothing to build a custom gun from.

But steel doesn't make a great gun. The ar15 family had no steel in its action, however the great doug turnbull had an amazing one for sale

St Finn used a push feed model 70 in 458 for a time. That doesn't make it a desirable action

But-if this is any consolidation- with the cost of actions, parts, and gunsmithing, building a budget semi custom mauser is a waste of time you can go buy a model 70 or 77 Complete rifle for less than the work to bring a mauser action to having a 3 position safety, a scope friendly bolt, commercial trigger, hinged bottom metal,and 3 position safety

Same thing for a 602 vs cz550

xausa's Lon Paul 500 Jeffery on a 602:



This shows the integral pop-up peep that would make it worthwhile to use the 602 for a custom rifle,
if one had such an action or donor rifle lying fallow.

But one can have that feature on a CZ 550 Magnum from CZ-USA nowadays.
Also, no backassward safety, and you have better trigger options by OEM or replacement trigger on the CZ 550 Magnum.

However, I really must chide anyone who would use the vertical split rings by Talley or Warne on these actions.
I have crumbled both Talley and Warne CZ rings from hard recoil.
Why use them? Just because they are prettier?
That is no good reason.

The latest make of horizontal split rings by CZ is far stronger, more reliable, and accurate, even a better return to zero in QD use,
whether with attached homemade QD lever or with the streamlined "QDQD Lever" system. STRENGTH!:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Nice looking rifles

That took gobs of money/time to get there That took gobs of money/time to get there

as for handling a gibbs, sorry guys, a relatively stock looking Enfield can do the same-or larger.

Good steel? All modern commercial actions are "good steel" even the hideous moss berg 800 bolt gun. Heck the marlin bolt guns today, even the rem 710, are engineering marvels if great steel though nothing to build a custom gun from.

But steel doesn't make a great gun. The ar15 family had no steel in its action, however the great doug turnbull had an amazing one for sale

St Finn used a push feed model 70 in 458 for a time. That doesn't make it a desirable action

But-if this is any consolidation- with the cost of actions, parts, and gunsmithing, building a budget semi custom mauser is a waste of time you can go buy a model 70 or 77 Complete rifle for less than the work to bring a mauser action to having a 3 position safety, a scope friendly bolt, commercial trigger, hinged bottom metal,and 3 position safety

Same thing for a 602 vs cz550

Yep. I have $1200 in mine.

I am another rifle crank with a custom Butch Searcy .375 H&H built on a Brno 602, great looking, great shooting, slick as owl snot... and four buff and a passel of plains game to it's credit.

Butch replaced the bolt, added a three position Winchester-type safety and case-colored the action. It clover-leafs Remington 300 grain Swift A-Frames. Think I will keep mine.

I own CZ rifles in both 602 and 550 models . All have seen plenty of action of the years . I have nothing but praise for these reliable rifles.

Hi ANONYMOUS,

quote:

Originally posted by ANONYMOUS:
Hi.

I have noticed that your are really happy with the new CZ 550 scope rings. Why do you prefer them over verticaly split rings? ( I was planning on Alaska Arms rings, but not sure now. )

Vertically split rings, all that I know of, use multiple small screws/bolts to hold the rings together in the same axis as the primary ring mounting screw/bolt that holds the ring to the base.
That primary mounting bolt is anemic compared to the CZ primary ring mounting screw/bolt.
With the CZ you can torque to 65 inch-pounds without fear of breaking or stripping.
With the horizontal split, there is no possibility of altering the tension on other screws with on-and-off of scope.
And the CZ does have 4 perfectly good screws holding the ring halves together, horizontally split.
I have never broken anything on a CZ ring, but I have trashed both Talley and Warne rings by breaking that recoil tab that is on the rear ring for a CZ.
Torqued to 65 inch-pounds, a recoil tab is not going to get stressed on the CZ.
It won't go anywhere simply by the grasping in the shallow dove tails of both front and rear rings.
That CZ recoil lug on the rear ring is stronger anyway, I do believe, harder to break even if the primary mounting screw/bolt did get a bit loose.

Do you belive these will fit a ZG-47 as well?

CZ rings on a ZG-47? Does the ZG-47 use the same integral base on the action as a CZ 550 Magnum?


And, the torx screws, did you have to do anything to them to make them work?

The metric automotive screw used to replace the slotted-head primary ring mounting screw/bolt is a hex-head, socket-head, Allen-wrench-keyed screw. Not a torx socket-head screw.
They come in various lengths. One of them is perfect as is.
Longer ones can be cut to fit the length needed.
I would have to dig to find the specs on the screws, but I happened upon them by walking into the auto parts store with one of those CZ screws and searched the metric screws in the display bins.
Easy to match.
I have not bothered to replace the 4 screws on each ring holding the horizontal split together.
Some smaller socket-head screws would be nice there too, and torx would be better if the right one was found, likely metric too.
Those screws do not need to be torqued to 65 inch-pounds, but only about half that, like all the screws and bolts on all the vertically-split rings I know of.
Rip

Based on the opinion of many on this thread, and my own research, I just sent payment on a Tom Burgess BRNO ZKK 602 in .375. Found it on Hallowell, Burgess got it in the white and did metal work - feeding, polishing, bolt knob checkering, etc. Then had Earl Milliron stock it in a mcmillan stock and mark penrod do the blueing. I think its a good first .375 that will be a reliable gun if I take the buffalo hunting trip I'm thinking about. Thanks for all the insights on the BRNO.

I was looking at that rifle last week. Nice choice.